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HalloweenKnight

HERO System Online, Anyone?

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Just throwing an idea into the forum to see if it floats.

 

Champions Online is so horrible that it makes me wish the game engine could somehow be bought BACK from Perfect World using Kickstart funds and reprogrammed so that it mimics the real HERO System as much as possible.

 

The possibility would then exist to have a single "HERO System Online" game engine, perhaps running multiple genres - superhero, fantasy, steampunk, etc. - just like the real HERO System does.

 

Like I said, just an idea.

 

Could it work?

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I'm the only one who would push for a turn-based game based entirely on the compete Hero System rule set, aren't I?

The problem is there are many judgment calls in regard to how to rule power interactions when dealing with the special effects.

 

For example, a visual Flash attack in the form of paint against a person with Flash Defense bought as polarized lenses in their goggles.

The polarization effect should not protect against the paint, at the same time, by virtue of having goggles, it is conceivable that you could wipe the paint easily versus a situation where the Flash Defense is bought through their eyes.

 

Of course, the rules simply say subtract the Flash Defense from the points of effect from the Flash attack, but now we get into the toolkit aspect of the way powers are bought.

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Perfect World holds a Licence to the Champions Universe. The world that the Champions Game is set in. Cryptic used it's own Game System, and existing software that was originally developed for the defunct Marvel Universe Online. After Marvel Pulled it's licence, Cryptic went looking for another Superheroic Licence they could plug into what they had already developed for MUO. Champions U being a Marvel Homage Universe fit the bill very well and was available.

 

Had Cryptic went with an upgrade of City of Heroes' look, people would be much happier than the Cell Shaded crappy looking models that are currently in the Game. Also since they were looking to include an XBox 360 version of the game, they decided to go with an "Action MMO" style of gameplay with limited controls available, no macros and lots of standard PC MMO features half assed into the game if at all. The would have been far better off ignoring the Console version and making a good solid PC Game with standard MMO gameplay and controls. But they didn't and CO is the game we got. BTW the beta testers were VERY insistant that the gameplay was bad and needed to change. Unfortunatly, beta is way too late for such a radical redesign of UI and gameplay.

I think I will keep hoping that City of Titans actually ships and doesn't become Vaporware.

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The problem is there are many judgment calls in regard to how to rule power interactions when dealing with the special effects.

 

For example, a visual Flash attack in the form of paint against a person with Flash Defense bought as polarized lenses in their goggles.

The polarization effect should not protect against the paint, at the same time, by virtue of having goggles, it is conceivable that you could wipe the paint easily versus a situation where the Flash Defense is bought through their eyes.

 

Of course, the rules simply say subtract the Flash Defense from the points of effect from the Flash attack, but now we get into the toolkit aspect of the way powers are bought.

 

 

 

It's also arguable that a paint based special effect that blinds should probably be built as an entangle with opaque to sight and appropriate Limitations (think Spidey shooting webbing to blind someone).

 

*I agree that your general point is valid.

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I would very much like the idea of playing a turn-based video game that uses the Hero System in its full, nigh-biblical glory as well. So I'll tell you fine people what: provide me with links to reviews of turn-based video RPG games that are available in stores right now. Not games that were popular ten years ago - or even two years ago – but that are currently successful. Do that, and I'll see if their publishers will talk to me.

 

“The Management”

 

Note: Odds are I'll never get past speaking to the receptionist's intern's five-year-old daughter's imaginary friend. But I will try.

 

Second Note: My snark is not directed at you guys, but rather at the fact that getting people in *any* part of the entertainment industry to talk to you - even if you are offering them money - can be fiendishly difficult.

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You shouldn't be so cheerful and optimistic about things. :P

 

Seriously though, turn based is more often used for strategy games than role-playing games nowadays. That's not saying that I would not enjoy a turn-based RPG, but most publishers/developers seem to be geared towards open world games like Skyrim or story driven games like Mass Effect. Mind you, both Mass Effect and Dragon Age had turn-like options (pause the action to direct special attacks) and that is the happy medium where I would love to see a Hero-based computer game go.

 

I would also like to be immortal and able to traverse the stars in nigh-absolute safety and comfort. I expect that I will see neither in my lifetime. You never know though. Perhaps a brilliant upstart company will successfully crowd fund a Hero based CRPG. I can hold out hope for such a thing. The whole immortal, star traveler thing seems a bit more iffy. :)

 

I would very much like the idea of playing a turn-based video game that uses the Hero System in its full, nigh-biblical glory as well. So I'll tell you fine people what: provide me with links to reviews of turn-based video RPG games that are available in stores right now. Not games that were popular ten years ago - or even two years ago – but that are currently successful. Do that, and I'll see if their publishers will talk to me.

 

“The Management”

 

Note: Odds are I'll never get past speaking to the receptionist's intern's five-year-old daughter's imaginary friend. But I will try.

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Not only would *I* also like to be immortal and able to traverse the stars in nigh-absolute safety and comfort, I should also like to ride down my enemies on their half-hearted flight [as if I were in Manowar song].

 

With that said, a comment and a question:

 

1) NP: if there are currently popular video game RPGs with turn-like options * of any type * that you think Hero Games would work well with, send me a link to those.

 

2) What's a CRPG?

 

Jason

 

 

You shouldn't be so cheerful and optimistic about things. :P

 

Seriously though, turn based is more often used for strategy games than role-playing games nowadays. That's not saying that I would not enjoy a turn-based RPG, but most publishers/developers seem to be geared towards open world games like Skyrim or story driven games like Mass Effect. Mind you, both Mass Effect and Dragon Age had turn-like options (pause the action to direct special attacks) and that is the happy medium where I would love to see a Hero-based computer game go.

 

I would also like to be immortal and able to traverse the stars in nigh-absolute safety and comfort. I expect that I will see neither in my lifetime. You never know though. Perhaps a brilliant upstart company will successfully crowd fund a Hero based CRPG. I can hold out hope for such a thing. The whole immortal, star traveler thing seems a bit more iffy. :)

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Computer Role Playing Game.

 

And I echo previous sentiment about getting people to talk to you.  When I seriously considered doing a Master of Orion HERO, I had a hard time chasing down who owned the defunct Intellectual Property to even *ask* for permission.

 

Chris.

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Bioware is the studio that comes to mind the quickest. Though they are so big, they are really doing their own IP and Star Wars. What you need is an up and coming studio that is still thinks they can do it for next to no money and be as good at the big studios. Gamasutra would be the best source for such companies. Also checking Stream for new games that fit the bill. Though I think that companies are looking for world IP and not System IP. My SO is a Sr Engineer and has been in the industry for quite awhile. Even she doesn't see a company needing a game system to hang their world IP on. Who knows it may be that there is someone out there that needs an open ended points based system.

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XCOM: Enemy Unknown is a turn-based / tactical game which popular, rated highly by almost everyone, and won a few awards in the process. Firaxis Games, however, is not a small studio, tends to focus on strategy games, and is somewhat unlikely to want/need outside IP.

 

I think your most likely option is to do what Privateer Press did - find a small game studio, work with them to get some prototype together, then launch a well-publicised Kickstarter linking the computer game with some new book(s) being released. 

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Jason,

 

Harebrained Schmes who did Shadowrun Returns is probably the best example and most likely option.

http://harebrained-schemes.com/shadowrun/

 

It was created by Jordan Weisman.

 

It doesn't have destructable environments, but perhaps a partnership with Hairbrained Schemes to Kickstart such a game could get the coding necessary funded.

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Makes you wonder what it would take to have something along the lines of the original NWN with the ability to script your own scenes, modern graphics with a superhero theme

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Their only real IP is licensed out to Cryptic/Perfect World. The rest of Hero's IP is fairly undeveloped worlds for Fantasy Hero and Star Hero.

 

 

Technically, the Champions IP is owned by Cryptic/Perfect World and Hero Games has a free license in perpetuity to use it in RPGs (subject to Cryptic approval). I think that's how it works.

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Perfect World holds a Licence to the Champions Universe. The world that the Champions Game is set in. Cryptic used it's own Game System, and existing software that was originally developed for the defunct Marvel Universe Online. After Marvel Pulled it's licence, Cryptic went looking for another Superheroic Licence they could plug into what they had already developed for MUO. Champions U being a Marvel Homage Universe fit the bill very well and was available.

 

Had Cryptic went with an upgrade of City of Heroes' look, people would be much happier than the Cell Shaded crappy looking models that are currently in the Game. Also since they were looking to include an XBox 360 version of the game, they decided to go with an "Action MMO" style of gameplay with limited controls available, no macros and lots of standard PC MMO features half assed into the game if at all. The would have been far better off ignoring the Console version and making a good solid PC Game with standard MMO gameplay and controls. But they didn't and CO is the game we got. BTW the beta testers were VERY insistant that the gameplay was bad and needed to change. Unfortunatly, beta is way too late for such a radical redesign of UI and gameplay.

 

I think I will keep hoping that City of Titans actually ships and doesn't become Vaporware.

So do I!

But there's one prob with CHO though; You can't create your own campaign. You can only play in the adventures that you download and that's all. You can't set up a Fantasy HERO Pulp HERO, Star HERO or any kind of HERO campaign. not ever.

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If Cryptic/Perfect World owns the IP, maybe Jason could arrange a sit down with them and tell him what we want in a Champions Game.

 

My list would include:

  • Full Access to the Hero system rules for character creation (If I want to run around Millenium City as Drizzt Do'Urden, then damnit, I wanna have a Dual-Scimitar Wielding Speed 6 Dex 30 Dark-Elf!)
  • Turn Based Combat using the HERO speed charts
  • A decent Graphic engine (Something Similar to the soldier customizations for X-Com)
  • Ability to play any Genre (possibly have each of the Genres release as separate games that share common resources, allowing you to import your Arch Mage from Fantasy Hero into Star Hero...)
  • Ability to share resources (like how Spore Galactic Adventures lets you download mission packs that others have created)

Truth be told, I'd rather Fireaxis do the code work since I love me some X-Com and feel that engine would work best.

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Jason's question was a not-quite-rhetorical one about who's made the best turn-based games lately. He's got the best two answers: Shadowrun Returns and X-Com. Interestingly, though I haven't played it, I wonder if the people who made Pillars of Eternity could be interested (since that's a game you can pause the action and issue orders).

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If Cryptic/Perfect World owns the IP, maybe Jason could arrange a sit down with them and tell him what we want in a Champions Game.

 

My list would include:

  • Full Access to the Hero system rules for character creation (If I want to run around Millenium City as Drizzt Do'Urden, then damnit, I wanna have a Dual-Scimitar Wielding Speed 6 Dex 30 Dark-Elf!)
  • Turn Based Combat using the HERO speed charts
  • A decent Graphic engine (Something Similar to the soldier customizations for X-Com)
  • Ability to play any Genre (possibly have each of the Genres release as separate games that share common resources, allowing you to import your Arch Mage from Fantasy Hero into Star Hero...)
  • Ability to share resources (like how Spore Galactic Adventures lets you download mission packs that others have created)

Truth be told, I'd rather Firaxis do the code work since I love me some X-Com and feel that engine would work best.

 

Well, a question begs to be asked, would you actually want to play the MMO with the current Champions IP as a backdrop?

 

I've heard many people on various forums re: CO that the Champions Universe was somewhat derivative of the other Big 2, citing Mechanon/Ultron and Dr. Destroyer/Dr. Doom. While I've played with the Champions Universe since the 4th Edition, there are people that might prefer their own universe and in an age where you are seeing games that also cater to user generated content, like City of Heroes' Mission Architect and Cryptic with the Foundry on Neverwinter and Star Trek Online, while having a universe as a framework is good, perhaps allowing a forum for ones own creation would be best.

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