Why is it so slow in here?

[Nadrakas]

I like the idea of a FH setting (or settings).  I also love the idea of Curry

 

Another example of "Rice vs Curry" is Vampire: The Masquerade.  An example of a Boutique world (Along with all of the rest of the WoD...) -- however, some liked the Rules & others didn't (the Rules are too "simple" or the Rules are too "complicated."). Also, the different WoD Settings didn't quite fit together.  Now the New WoD setting fit together (kind of...), but...nah, I'll leave that alone.

 

Hmmm...You know, in the Real World, Curry is often put over Rice :love:

 

There are a few Setting, like Eclipse Phase, that are licensed under a Creative Commons License. Eclipse Phase is a pretty Unique Non-Fantasy setting, which IMHO, is good and would be a nice Cyberpunk setting for Hero.  Here is an excerpt from the link:

 

"We encourage people to play in our sandbox. We want our players and fans to share the game with their friends, write fan fiction, create websites for their campaigns, post their house rules online, publish netbooks based on their personalized settings, create crossover systems for running Eclipse Phase using other published (or home-brewed) rules sets, or even mesh Eclipse Phase with other favored crossover worlds. To this end, we've published the Eclipse Phase RPG under a Creative Commons license. Details on how this license works, and any exceptions that apply, are noted below."

 

.........

 

View this license

 

.........

 

"Eclipse Phase products (including printed rulebooks/sourcebooks and PDFs) by Posthuman Studios are licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 License, with the following exceptions noted below."

 

Only thing is, you can't sell the derivative product.

 

It's a thought.

 

 

~ M

[Nadrakas]

Since the company sees Champions Complete as THE rules book then it should refer back to that book. Besides directing people to spend $40 on a book is much better than giving them sticker shock from a much more expensive rules books (6e1 and 6e2 are needed to provide the whole HS rules) of course the other problem with 6e1 &2 is that they are OOP with no reprint on the horizon.

Fair Point.  So, Champions Complete would be the answer (Baring any "new" release of 6e1 & 6e2...through POD perhaps...).

 

And yes...$40 bucks is pretty expensive, especially if you're new to a system.

 

 

~ M

[Nadrakas]

I think you're right in that generic settings won't do much to attract players so much as just not scare them off.  All the good settings, IMO, are recognizably fantasy but have some sort of critical distinction.  Dark Sun, Planescape, Eberron, Spelljammer, Shadowrun--every single one of these has swords, magic, elves, and dwarves, but they're certainly not what you might consider generic fantasy. 

 

Personally I think FH's sweet spot is going to be mid- to high-level fantasy.  Mythic Greece, for example, or Malazan, or Charn, or even Bas-Lag.  Ultimately I think Hero would be best served with several 'boutique' settings as you describe, but right now there isn't even one that's set up to use as a starting point.

Here's a Brain Dump (I'm having a lot tonight...sorry, keeping my mind off thing...).

 

If several FH Boutique settings were done, perhaps they could be loosely linked somehow. 

 

Perhaps connected by a back story, wherein the different worlds were once linked (Via Mystical Gates? Maybe they still are, but only weakly now)?  How long ago was the connection?  Who created it (The current Races or another "Ancient" Race?)? What caused the link to be severed?

 

Perhaps there is a dominate Race on each world, with a minority of differing Races that were trapped when the connection was severed? One world is dominated by Race "A" and has a minority of Races B, C & D.  Another world is Dominated by Race B and has a minority of Races A, C and there is no Race D. And similar on the other worlds.  Each world has evolved culturally, historically, politically, magically, etc after the link was severed.

 

Just tossing out ideas.  Not invested in it...

 

 

~ M

[BlueCloud2k2]

Sort of a magical version of Stargate?

 

I've thought of running a fantasy campaign where each of the races had their own homeworld (ships that traveled between them were going to be based on Spell Jammer ships).

 

But here's a thought: What if the present world didn't have anyone living on it until about 1000 years ago when cities from around the multiverse was magically transported to the Campaign World. Sort of a DnD/Fantasy Hero version of the Ring of Fire (book series by Eric Flint). That is how Elves, Dwarves, Humans, Orcs and Goblins all came to cohabitate the world.

 

Humans, Orcs and Goblins are the most fecund of the races, so they spread out pretty quickly. Elves and Dwarves, not having the resources their large cities required, also established colony settlements, eventually having to abandon their old cities entirely.

 

But the campaign world wasn't always vacant before the magical event brought the different races into contact. Scattered across the world are ruins of an ancient civilization. Judging from the different architectures, maybe the events that caused the cities to be moved has happened before...

[Nadrakas]

Sort of a magical version of Stargate?

 

I've thought of running a fantasy campaign where each of the races had their own homeworld (ships that traveled between them were going to be based on Spell Jammer ships).

 

But here's a thought: What if the present world didn't have anyone living on it until about 1000 years ago when cities from around the multiverse was magically transported to the Campaign World. Sort of a DnD/Fantasy Hero version of the Ring of Fire (book series by Eric Flint). That is how Elves, Dwarves, Humans, Orcs and Goblins all came to cohabitate the world.

 

Humans, Orcs and Goblins are the most fecund of the races, so they spread out pretty quickly. Elves and Dwarves, not having the resources their large cities required, also established colony settlements, eventually having to abandon their old cities entirely.

 

But the campaign world wasn't always vacant before the magical event brought the different races into contact. Scattered across the world are ruins of an ancient civilization. Judging from the different architectures, maybe the events that caused the cities to be moved has happened before...

A possibility.  Hmmm...I believe, if I'm not mistaken, that something similar has been done before (But that's probably true of a great many concepts...).  Still, it doesn't mean that it can't work.  Afterall, every tree begins with a seed, but not all trees are the same.  So, the world and it's history can be unique.  As for the ruins...that leaves a great many things open.

 

Perhaps the arrival is still going on?  Maybe not as fast, with intermittent arrivals of a few hundred -- or thousand(s) here and there?  Maybe different races (I know...the standard races are comfortable for many players...).  Hmm...perhaps one of the Races is actually a servant race of the Ancients?

 

As for Races, I personally would prefer to not have "half-(insert race)" -- at least without a well thought explanation.

 

~ M

[Narf the Mouse]

Ok. I don't want to say this. I really don't want to say this, because I like it as a game setting. And because HERO needs a good setting.

 

But...*Sigh*...Google GURPS: Banestorm.

 

Much as HERO needs a setting, using this setting  *will* get criticisms of "copycating".

 

Edit: Ok, it also sounds like the Forgettable Realms.

 

And some others.

 

So maybe it is usable by dint of sheer genericness.

[Nadrakas]

Ok. I don't want to say this. I really don't want to say this, because I like it as a game setting. And because HERO needs a good setting.

 

But...*Sigh*...Google GURPS: Banestorm.

 

Much as HERO needs a setting, using this setting  *will* get criticisms of "copycating".

 

Edit: Ok, it also sounds like the Forgettable Realms.

 

And some others.

 

So maybe it is usable by dint of sheer genericness.

Yeah...I know.  "Sigh"...G: B...where the Dark Elves hate everyone (What's new?) and Humans are from Earth.

 

Unfortunately it's already owned by Steve Jackson...so I don't think it could be used.

 

 

~ M

[Tasha]

Ok. I don't want to say this. I really don't want to say this, because I like it as a game setting. And because HERO needs a good setting.

 

But...*Sigh*...Google GURPS: Banestorm.

 

Much as HERO needs a setting, using this setting  *will* get criticisms of "copycating".

 

Edit: Ok, it also sounds like the Forgettable Realms.

 

And some others.

 

So maybe it is usable by dint of sheer genericness.

 

Sorry the first Published PnP fantasy world with gates feeding in races and cultures from other worlds is The world of Arduin (AKA Khaas) by David Hargrave. Arduin had many wars over the dimenional gates leading to and from Arduin. Also you could point to Michael Moorcock's Eternal Champion Series for similar things.

 

IMHO the Generic Fantasy D&Dish world should be the first thing to start with. Something safely similar to Greyhawk, The Forgotten Realms and Golarion.

[Narf the Mouse]

Sorry the first Published PnP fantasy world with gates feeding in races and cultures from other worlds is The world of Arduin (AKA Khaas) by David Hargrave. Arduin had many wars over the dimenional gates leading to and from Arduin. Also you could point to Michael Moorcock's Eternal Champion Series for similar things.

 

IMHO the Generic Fantasy D&Dish world should be the first thing to start with. Something safely similar to Greyhawk, The Forgotten Realms and Golarion.

I don't see how more examples is a thing to apologize about.

 

Edit: It means the idea is that much less likely to be taken as derivative, or has more arguments for not being derivative.

[Nadrakas]

Sorry the first Published PnP fantasy world with gates feeding in races and cultures from other worlds is The world of Arduin (AKA Khaas) by David Hargrave. Arduin had many wars over the dimenional gates leading to and from Arduin. Also you could point to Michael Moorcock's Eternal Champion Series for similar things.

 

IMHO the Generic Fantasy D&Dish world should be the first thing to start with. Something safely similar to Greyhawk, The Forgotten Realms and Golarion.

Forgive me for asking, but couldn't The Turakian Age be described as kind of D&Dish?  Well...the magic is most definitely different (Power Skill, each spell bought differently)...call it "D&D leaning."

 

Asking for the sake of Reference here...

 

 

~ M

[Lord Liaden]

 

Forgive me for asking, but couldn't The Turakian Age be described as kind of D&Dish?  Well...the magic is most definitely different (Power Skill, each spell bought differently)...call it "D&D leaning."

 

Asking for the sake of Reference here...

 

 

~ M

Anyone reading The Turakian Age can quickly tell that it's very strongly "D&D leaning." From remarks I read from the Hero Games staff back in the day that was deliberate, to try to attract that fan base. Heck, TA has Elves, Dwarves, Orcs, Gnomes, Halflings, Goblins, Lizard-Men("Seshurma"), Bullywugs ("Ran-tari")... It has a predominantly pseudo-medieval social order and technology. It has a large, wealthy, independent city as a potential home base for adventurers. It has a Dark Lord ruling a land of evil. TA does have some more atypical elements, such as Trolls being more like the Scandinavian legends. Overall, though, it was meant to be comfortingly familiar to D&Ders.

[Nadrakas]

 

 

Anyone reading The Turakian Age can quickly tell that it's very strongly "D&D leaning." From remarks I read from the Hero Games staff back in the day that was deliberate, to try to attract that fan base. Heck, TA has Elves, Dwarves, Orcs, Gnomes, Halflings, Goblins, Lizard-Men("Seshurma"), Bullywugs ("Ran-tari")... It has a predominantly pseudo-medieval social order and technology. It has a large, wealthy, independent city as a potential home base for adventurers. It has a Dark Lord ruling a land of evil. TA does have some more atypical elements, such as Trolls being more like the Scandinavian legends. Overall, though, it was meant to be comfortingly familiar to D&Ders.

Here's the Questions: Did it attract the D&Ders?

 

~ M

[Old Man]

Turakian was simultaneously generic and unsupported, so it didn't really help with either differentiation or the learning curve. It's a good setting though.

[Lord Liaden]

 

Nothing's stopping anyone from writing something up and publishing it.  DOJ's terms for doing so are extremely liberal.

 

And they've been taken advantage of, repeatedly. Has anyone browsed the Fantasy Hero section of the website store? The Echoes of Heaven, Kamarathin, The Last Dominion... all quality settings made with passion, trying a more original take on fantasy gaming for HERO System. No one is lining up or breaking down the doors to buy them.

 

The sad truth is that everyone has their own definition of what a "good" setting is, what the gaming public "really wants." Figuring out what the largest number of fans will buy -- aside from what's already selling -- is more art than science.

 

I will say that I take umbrage at those people who have criticized the settings Hero Games has put out during the DOJ era as being "boring," "unimaginative," or some other euphemism for "bad." All those settings were written with obvious (at least to me) care, skill, creativity, and enthusiasm. Too many people equate "I don't like it" with "It's no good." I always try to give due weight to the objective strengths and qualities of a creative work, whether I personally like the work or not.

[Lord Liaden]

Turakian was simultaneously generic and unsupported, so it didn't really help with either differentiation or the learning curve. It's a good setting though.

The definition of "unsupported" is subject to debate IMHO. Besides the setting book, and cross-genre books like the HERO System Bestiary, books published for Fifth Edition specifically designed to be used with TA -- either based in the setting, or referring to the setting for examples -- included Monsters, Minions, And Marauders with creatures and races; The Book Of Dragons with even more creatures; Fantasy HERO Battlegrounds containing three full adventures, plus adventure-seed mini-settings and maps; Nobles, Knights, And Necromancers for NPCs; a book of Enchanted Items; and two Fantasy HERO Grimoire(s) of spells.

[Tasha]

Here's the Questions: Did it attract the D&Ders?

 

~ M

So badly named that it didn't even think of D&D or a generic High Fantasy world. I really hate the Hero Timeline with all of the ages and BS. Also I have to concur about the total lack of support. The assumption being that Adventures don't sell so they aren't worth writer time to produce. Unfortunatly Adventures need to be the break even or lost leader to support the Game world supplements.

[Nadrakas]

I've like DOJs releases -- I've ran most of them before and intend to continue to do so.

 

That being said, with FH, when compared to other settings, there isn't a huge amount of support material.  Expanded world & setting books, NPC books, Adventures, etc.  I know that we can't have our "cake and eat it too."    With WotC there is a vast amount, and with a lot of smaller companies they tend to focus upon one setting and print support material to the exclusion of all else (often to their own detriment).

 

That's both Heroes strong and weak point.  It's so good at simulating different Genre's that it get's spread kind of thin, which limits how many supporting world books there are.

 

A Catch-22.

 

 

~ M

[Vondy]

I don't think any of heroes fantasy settings have been unoriginal. The issue, in my opinion, is twofold -- marketing and continued support.

 

Both require deeper pockets than DOJ had at hand.

 

One of the challenges Hero faces is that it is competing with games that are single-genre, often single-setting, and use a tailored rules set.

 

Who really has the cash on hand to market and support multiple settings for multiple genres?

 

Hero's setting focus has always been its old fashioned bread and butter: supers.

 

And even that wasn't supported and marketed as fully as it could have been because of the genre books and other settings being produced.

 

This is in no way a criticism of DOJ. It is, for a small company, an essentially impossible task.

[Nadrakas]

Hmmm....Marketing.  That requires Money.

 

~ M

[Narf the Mouse]

One large factor is coherency. D&D has very high coherency. You can take nearly anything in D&D, mix it with nearly anything else in D&D, and everyone will know pretty much what to expect.

 

HERO, on the other hand, can do nearly anything. But when you use it to do one thing, as you almost must to run a game, it becomes distinct from many other things you could do with it. You can make dozens of different low-fantasy games with HERO, and have most of them be incompatible in setting, tone, magic system(s), extra-ordinary abilities, presence or absence of other races, monsters, other dimensions, etc. and etc..

 

You could write a "Fires of Heaven" supplement for "Fires of Heaven". But you would have more trouble (I would guess; I don't have the second) making a "Fires of Heaven" supplement that is compatible with "Terricide", even though they are both "HERO System".

[PaycheckHero]

If several FH Boutique settings were done, perhaps they could be loosely linked somehow.

I would recommend against that. This is the thinking that gave us every official setting in the same timeline, and frankly it turns me off completely. I can't say if it has that effect on others, but it isn't for me.

[Nadrakas]

I would recommend against that. This is the thinking that gave us every official setting in the same timeline, and frankly it turns me off completely. I can't say if it has that effect on others, but it isn't for me.

Just a "Brain Dump."

 

I was thinking that they would be linked in the same time frame, as opposed to being connected linearly thru time (ie: From Past to Future).  That way, you could take you're character from one World Setting to another World Setting (Kind of like going from Forgotten Realms to Greyhawk...).  Linkage would be loose enough, that if - and only if - the GM and Player's want to integrate them then they can.

 

~ M

[PaycheckHero]

You know, I think the logical first setting is simple: Dungeon Hero. That's arguably a subset of the world of D&D, but a beloved one judging by the sales of GURPS: Dungeon Fantasy. And since everyone knows what it is, you don't have to teach the setting, only how to do it in hero. Support is more monsters and modules, though if you do it right you can make it easy to run modules written for other systems anyway (Hero just isn't going to be able to crank out modules the way some companies can).

[PaycheckHero]

Linkage would be loose enough, that if - and only if - the GM and Player's want to integrate them then they can.

I suppose that's harmless, but in that case does it even need to be stated? Extradimensional Travel already exists, and can be used to travel to other campaigns if the GM agrees to allow it to be used that way. You can have your superheroes fight Morgoth if you insist, traveling between fantasy worlds is that much more natural.

[Nadrakas]

I suppose that's harmless, but in that case does it even need to be stated? Extradimensional Travel already exists, and can be used to travel to other campaigns if the GM agrees to allow it to be used that way. You can have your superheroes fight Morgoth if you insist, traveling between fantasy worlds is that much more natural.

"Shrug" -- Yes.  Unless the worlds all have a connected/linked pre-history in the Fantasy Genre.  That was the thought anyway (See original forum post...).

 

 

 

~ M