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Star Wars D20 Convert to Hero 6th


Andreas

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Hi all.

 

Well im new at Hero system. But love the rules.  :)

I  will try to create an Star Wars universe (Old Republic)
Normally we play the D20 star Wars Saga edition (Old Republic)   

 

I'm about to convert, the characters from D20 to Hero.

And here is my question!

 

How would you convert an Jedi Master? (in d20 he is a CL13(the max CL-lvl is 20 in that game))

 

This is my idea until now.

 

Characteristic Max for Human 20

Skill Max 16

Powers, weapons , Amour and Items - No limits  
(but they can spent CP to tune the weapons esp. A light saber Killing attack hth 2d6, could be 2d6+2 CP spent 5)

 

Charter

starting points 125cp

Complication 50cp

Character points converted from D20 = 115cp

(cl1-5 = 5cp, cl6-10=10cp, Cl11-15=15cp)   

 

My biggest problem is how to buildup the Force powers.

I don't want the Force Powers to be over buffed. But they still have to illustrate the that the character is a Jedi.

 

Is the best way to build the powers using Multiform or Power pool?

 

Please give some ideas, or guidelines to do it the best way.

 

 

test.pdf

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If you are going to adapt the D20 Star Wars Saga edition to HERO I wouldn't start with the character conversions.  I would first stat out the basic structure of "how things work".  Especially force powers. 

 

And I agree that 125 points is too little for a Jedi.  But then why are you using 125 points?   Jedi and Sith are the SUPERHEROES and SUPERVILLAINS of that universe.  

 

A Space Opera (Heroic) character in 6th is recommended to be 175/50

In that world I'd make a Jedi start at minimum Low (Teen Champs) Superheroic  275/50 maybe even Low Super 300/60.

 

That is why I never really got into a Star Wars RPG.  A movie can mix a cast of wildly disparate characters operating on wildly different power scales.  But an RPG needs the PC's to at least be near each other in ability.   Trying to mash normals in with force users winds up with some players being completely outclassed or the other players concept being so watered down they are dumb. 

 

Don't make the characters fit the points.  Determine the common universe rules (like requiring incantations and gestures for magic) and then build an average Jedi ignoring the points.  Just make the Jedi a good balance concept that can do what you believe a Jedi can do in your world.  Then, use that average Jedi as the template to establish your base line points and ability caps. 

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Millennial Master 5th or 6th?

 

It's the 6th edtion. 

 

 

Anime...the other genre  Jedi and Sith are the SUPERHEROES and SUPERVILLAINS of that universe.  

 

The party is both Jedi and Soldier classes. Don't want the Jedi's to be over buffed.

a Jedi at CP350 should not be stronger than a Soldier at CP350 (as long the soldier has some weapons)

 

In my world a blaster pistol makes 2d6k and the characters only has 15 - 20body, that makes them woundable. they have to think before attacking, and taking the odds or run.

 

The game will be skilled based. Spaceship combat, HTH combat, Ranged Combat.

And i want to keep it simple, (we are new at the Hero system)

 

I have recreated the character,

-  Perks now defines the Jedi Rank.  

-  some Forcepowers are Multipower

- Jedi LightSaber is build upon power/CP (that way a jedi can make his lightsaber incredible strong) /I'll properly let the soldier power modify a specific weapon the same way and/or armor  

 

let me know what you think.

test.pdf

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And I agree that 125 points is too little for a Jedi.  But then why are you using 125 points?   Jedi and Sith are the SUPERHEROES and SUPERVILLAINS of that universe.  

[...]

 

That is why I never really got into a Star Wars RPG.  A movie can mix a cast of wildly disparate characters operating on wildly different power scales.  But an RPG needs the PC's to at least be near each other in ability.   Trying to mash normals in with force users winds up with some players being completely outclassed or the other players concept being so watered down they are dumb.

Agreed on the Powerlevel. Oddly enough I am currently working on a Jedi-ish Superhero for a superhero campaign.

And Character Level 13 in a D20 game generally fits more up to a Superheroic Powerlevel.

Really, just playing it as a superheroic game with Lethal force being allowed is propably the easiest approach. You could even take the generall Archetypes.

 

However I would say that every player character is the same point. The Computergame "The Old republic" does actually a good job of making Force User's and Normals "equal" in power. The Computergame also has an excellent seperation of Game and Special Effects.

 

I am not sure if the D20 Rulesystem does the same.

 

Here is another thread with a few 6e versions of a Lightsaber:

http://www.herogames.com/forums/topic/80733-the-force/?p=2077880

Danger, Will Robinson.

How you build the Lightsaber can be one of the most critical parts of the game. The biggest mistake you could make is actually imitating the Source material too well. The only game I know of that really tried to mimik the Lightsabers abilities was Star Wars D6. And this system was designed to avoid the "one hit insta death" potential of the Lightsaber.

Personally I would just take a HKA, Penetrating to begin with. Most mooks fall under the "one hit"-Rule anyway. And you don't want Jedi battles to end up with "whoever lands the first hit wins".

 

General differences between D20 Systems and Hero:

In HERO Armor reduces damage. That armor does not do the same in D20 is what I consider a serious bug (and something no other system really copied). That means HERO does not need:

Saving Throws. Clerics (as the game is not so much about whitling down enemy HP)*. Escalating HP, BAB and Number of Attacks.

Endurance repalces the need for any Spelslots or ForceManapoints system.

A bunch of enemies is always some danger. Half a dozen 175 Point Mooks can actually take down a single 400 point Super.

You have a lot more combat options, without any Feats. The closest to "Improved X" Feats would propably be HERO Martial Arts.

 

On big issue might be balancing Internal abilities and Equipment. General Superheroic rules are that you buy equipment with Points, just like internal abilities. If you jsut play by Superheroic rules, the problem is thus solved.

On the other hand, general heroic game rules are that they are free - wich can be bad for Casters, as they have to spend a lot more points to get thier stuff (they need the Stats and points for thier Spells).  A compromise can be the Resource Pool System in APG I. As well as several magic system wich severly reduce the cost for Spells and stuff.

 

* If I heard right Star Wars D20 has something called "luck" or so, wich is taken down before HP and actually regenerates fast. It's the reason Stormtroopers are that bad at hitting things - they actually hit, but only damage the Luck stat.

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Agreed on the Powerlevel. Oddly enough I am currently working on a Jedi-ish Superhero for a superhero campaign.

And Character Level 13 in a D20 game generally fits more up to a Superheroic Powerlevel.

Really, just playing it as a superheroic game with Lethal force being allowed is propably the easiest approach. You could even take the generall Archetypes.

 

However I would say that every player character is the same point. The Computergame "The Old republic" does actually a good job of making Force User's and Normals "equal" in power. The Computergame also has an excellent seperation of Game and Special Effects.

 

I am not sure if the D20 Rulesystem does the same.

 

It's been a while since I actually played a d20 game, and I was never a video/computer game player so my usable knowledge is lacking.

 

For Star Wars my knowledge is limited to the Movies and the Clone Wars plus some RPG material over the years.  My one attempt to delve into the novel end was killed early on by the chaos and lack of consistency at that time.  The first two novels I read were 180 degrees out of agreement with the basic world. 

 

All of the SW material I have been exposed to has regulars at the bottom with the 'named' heroes standing far far FAR above them (the Han Solo's and Boba Fets) and then equally far above them were Padawans (like Asoka) and then at even more rarefied heights were the actual Jedi.   In the universe portrayed on the screen (both sizes) a normal is about as equal to a Jedi as a 50 year old pot bellied ex-CPO is to Superman.  Not at all.

 

The FFG RPG Edge of the Empire has even realized it though they are careful not to come out and say it.   Both initial games Edge of the Empire and Age of Rebellion do not have Jedi or Sith as playable characters.   The do have a couple templates for "Force Users" , but they are more or less gratuitous give-me's to appease critics.  I think the real reason they are phasing two full non-force setting books before the Jedi/Sith book in a year or two is so existing PC's will have enough time to accumulate enough experience to be able to handle the part of back up singer when they first Jedi PC's come into the game.

 

All that said, I'll bow out now.  The peeps on the thread are wanting to play the mash up and I really don't have anything that could be considered useful.  I'll leave it to the more experienced Hero's to tackle this one. 

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All that said, I'll bow out now.  The peeps on the thread are wanting to play the mash up and I really don't have anything that could be considered useful.  I'll leave it to the more experienced Hero's to tackle this one. 

It's the same problem you would face when playing a Justice League game and look at Superman and Batman. Or Thor and Spiderman in a Avengers game.

In both cases the tougher ones might have to go down a bit in power. While the more normal one get's upgraded to be more in line with the rest.

All you need to accept is that you can make a 400 point Batman that can stand up to a 400 point Superman.

 

It's noteable for me that the Justice League Animated Series featured almost no Batman Villain. Those it did feature were either there as master planners or were superhumans with nice side powers (like Clayfaces shapeshifting). Bane or that one guy from teh Royal Flush gang might be Bricks for Bruce. But in a adventure with Superman they are merely elite mooks, all to easily dispatched by a Kryptonian.

Batmans 400 Point incarnation literally shakes off all his normal Villains.

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Just keep in mind that making your non-Jedi characters "match up to" the Jedi characters does deflate the sails of the Jedi a bit.

 

At the same time, Han Solo and Boba Fett were just as bad-ass as a Jedi; just in their own light.

 

Don't worry about non-Jedi going toe-to-toe with Jedi; just ensure that the non-Jedi aren't going to be completely overshadowed by the Jedi. 

 

This actually makes Star Wars a rare RPG genre where "splitting the party" actually works - Old Ben goes to shut off the generators, the rest of the party frees the princess :D

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All of the SW material I have been exposed to has regulars at the bottom with the 'named' heroes standing far far FAR above them (the Han Solo's and Boba Fets) and then equally far above them were Padawans (like Asoka) and then at even more rarefied heights were the actual Jedi.   In the universe portrayed on the screen (both sizes) a normal is about as equal to a Jedi as a 50 year old pot bellied ex-CPO is to Superman.  Not at all.

I'm not sure I would agree with this. In the first movies to be shown, Jedi are fantastically capable. In the prequels, it's quite a different story: some are extremely good, others got slaughtered in droves. So, aside from the true masters, I would peg the common Jedi as top-of-the-line agents or street-level supers with some fancy perks and weapons. The Jedi in the original trilogy were the survivors of the purge that took out the less skilled, not the standard.

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It's the same problem you would face when playing a Justice League game and look at Superman and Batman. Or Thor and Spiderman in a Avengers game.

In both cases the tougher ones might have to go down a bit in power. While the more normal one get's upgraded to be more in line with the rest.

All you need to accept is that you can make a 400 point Batman that can stand up to a 400 point Superman.

 

It's noteable for me that the Justice League Animated Series featured almost no Batman Villain. Those it did feature were either there as master planners or were superhumans with nice side powers (like Clayfaces shapeshifting). Bane or that one guy from teh Royal Flush gang might be Bricks for Bruce. But in a adventure with Superman they are merely elite mooks, all to easily dispatched by a Kryptonian.

Batmans 400 Point incarnation literally shakes off all his normal Villains.

 

 

Absolutely.  While I prefer not to, I have done it in the past.  But in most of the Champions games I have played in no one has played the actual Comic Book character, instead they played their own character concepts that if influenced were still their own twists.  And all the PC's were base-lined at the same points.  

 

I am not trying to tell anyone they can't do a power level mash up.   I did recommend not doing one because my personal experience has been less than fun.  But a persons campaign is their campaign, and I am sure there are several Hero's on the boards who have run them and were successful at it. 

 

But the biggest reason for me to not say anything more is a lack SW world knowledge.  I could just wing it, but I don't have enough knowledge to really speak about what a Jedi/Sith can or can't do with any authority.    And if you can't do that it is hard to do a good adjustments and still keep the overall feel right in Hero, let alone try to preserve it from another system.

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I'm not sure I would agree with this. In the first movies to be shown, Jedi are fantastically capable. In the prequels, it's quite a different story: some are extremely good, others got slaughtered in droves. So, aside from the true masters, I would peg the common Jedi as top-of-the-line agents or street-level supers with some fancy perks and weapons. The Jedi in the original trilogy were the survivors of the purge that took out the less skilled, not the standard.

 

Hence the reason I am bowing out.  I just didn't follow SW enough to be useful.  From the prequels most of what I remember was the causal disregard for personal danger exhibited by Jedi such as leaping off of 100 story buildings without anything and so on.  The purge of the temple always seemed rushed and driven by plot, not by story world.  In other words the script needed the massacre, therefore everyone dies even if Jedi Masters have to be taken down by chipmunks.  

 

But I do hear what you are saying.  It is just that my casual viewing of the Movies and one animated series does not give me enough solid info to contribute effectively here. ;)

 

Though I do intend to follow the thread. 

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There many ways to do it, And properly none of them are wrong or correct. It all depends on the party/campaign.

 

I'm convinced, that the starting point, must be around the 200cp for a new player.

That will make the jedi master converted from D20 to around in total 380-400cp.

 

 the way I think of an jedi is, that he has creatine advantages,

- he can heal

- he can jump

- he can use force grip

- he can use force slam

- use Force shield and more

 

But again a solider uses Armor. that can have the same effect, PD, ED and if its powered way not fly. A blaster gun dose Killing dmg, force slam dose normal dmg.

And the soldier can have special talents as well.

Its correct that at some point the jedi well get stronger (properly to strong), but then again, at that time, I'm no longer a newbie in Hero system.  : )

And yer Superman and Batman are great as a team. and remember a JEDI has disadvantages as well. Like Superman. Superman hates to kill, and can't say no to help, and all the moral conflicts.

 

I think the Jedi can be solved in using perks.

 PERK1- Rank of Jedi cost 5cp

- + 20 point to build a Force multipower.  

- END cost to use power x4 on all powers

 

PERK2 - Rank of Jedi Knight cost 5cp

- Requirements. Force multipower must be at 30AP

- Requirements. Combat skill lvl +1 LightSaber

- END cost to use power x2 on all powers

- +10 points to Force multipower

- Build lightsaber

 

And remember, that it is going to be skill based.

So the jedi must decide, will I use my CP on Forcepowers or skills…?

(Great you got 500AP in Force-multipower, but you know SHIT about flying the ship...KraBANG)

 

 

I'm going to build the Wookie Soldier tomorrow. And upload my idea to compare...   .

 

And thanks all, love to read your comments. : )

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Just keep in mind that making your non-Jedi characters "match up to" the Jedi characters does deflate the sails of the Jedi a bit.

 

At the same time, Han Solo and Boba Fett were just as bad-ass as a Jedi; just in their own light.

 

Don't worry about non-Jedi going toe-to-toe with Jedi; just ensure that the non-Jedi aren't going to be completely overshadowed by the Jedi. 

 

This actually makes Star Wars a rare RPG genre where "splitting the party" actually works - Old Ben goes to shut off the generators, the rest of the party frees the princess :D

What does Boba Fett ever do in the original movies that have people consider him equal to Han, let alone a Jedi?  I remember him waiting for Darth Vader to capture Han for him and then getting eating by a hole in the ground (despite having a jet pack...).  I have never understood the Boba Fett obsession, but I feel confident in saying that if you go by the movies alone he is only competent if compared to Storm Troopers. 

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If you are going to adapt the D20 Star Wars Saga edition to HERO I wouldn't start with the character conversions.  I would first stat out the basic structure of "how things work".  Especially force powers. 

 

And I agree that 125 points is too little for a Jedi.  But then why are you using 125 points?   Jedi and Sith are the SUPERHEROES and SUPERVILLAINS of that universe.  

 

A Space Opera (Heroic) character in 6th is recommended to be 175/50

In that world I'd make a Jedi start at minimum Low (Teen Champs) Superheroic  275/50 maybe even Low Super 300/60.

 

That is why I never really got into a Star Wars RPG.  A movie can mix a cast of wildly disparate characters operating on wildly different power scales.  But an RPG needs the PC's to at least be near each other in ability.   Trying to mash normals in with force users winds up with some players being completely outclassed or the other players concept being so watered down they are dumb. 

 

Don't make the characters fit the points.  Determine the common universe rules (like requiring incantations and gestures for magic) and then build an average Jedi ignoring the points.  Just make the Jedi a good balance concept that can do what you believe a Jedi can do in your world.  Then, use that average Jedi as the template to establish your base line points and ability caps. 

Yeah I ran a super fun Star Wars campaign 6e characters 500pts each. It was the first time that he Jedi actually felt like Jedi. Even the regular people were fun. It was way over the top fun.

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Yeah I ran a super fun Star Wars campaign 6e characters 500pts each. It was the first time that he Jedi actually felt like Jedi. Even the regular people were fun. It was way over the top fun.

 

500 points!?  My personal opinion has always been that people were aiming too low, but didn't realize how low.   I've always found your builds to be pretty accurate but I'm surprised that you used that many points.   I must have been underestimating more than I thought. 

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About the Miraluka Jedi:

Regarding Miraluka sight:

Sell back Normal Sight (+35 Points per 6E1)

Then buy Spartial Awareness into the Mental Force group (add Dsciriminatory Sense Modifier).

It's the 6E way of doing people like Daredevil who lost thier normal Sight.

 

Mind Classes:

As a general rule, regardless of species, everybody belongs into the Human mind Class (wich might be better caleld "default"). At least I consider Bruce (normal human), Wonder Woman (immortal Amazon), Superman (Kryptonian), The Martian Manhunter (a Martian), and Hawkgirl (a Thanagerian Alien) to all be in the Human Mind Class.

Most PC robots in superheroic settings would also be put in the human mindclass (that are that advanced and do not count as Machine Mind anymore).

 

Most SciFi settings/Fantasy settings only need two Mind classes:

Human/Default, Machine/Undead. (really dum autoamtons do not have any mindclass, unless they have a limtiation for it).

 

In some cases you want to add a thrid class that is distinct from those two. For example, for a Star Trek game I thought about:

Default (human, vulcan, andorians, Klingons, Romulans, etc.), Machine (Data, The Dr., the Compuer), Other (Ferengi  and other species that are canonically immune to Telepaths, canonically don't have Telepaths themself but still might be subject to technological mental powers).

 

And in Champions Complete Mindclasses have been removed totally.

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Regarding Miraluka sight:

Sell back Normal Sight (+35 Points per 6E1)

Then buy Spartial Awareness into the Mental Force group (add Dsciriminatory Sense Modifier).

It's the 6E way of doing people like Daredevil who lost thier normal Sight.

 

Brilliant.  :)
Did it this way.
Complication: Physical Complication; No normal Sight- Fully Impairing 35cp 
Power: Race Miraluka - Spatial Awareness (Sight group) +5 per roll on (sight only) ,Discriminatory 30cp
 

 

Mind Classes:

As a general rule, regardless of species, everybody belongs into the Human mind Class (wich might be better caleld "default"). At least I consider Bruce (normal human), Wonder Woman (immortal Amazon), Superman (Kryptonian), The Martian Manhunter (a Martian), and Hawkgirl (a Thanagerian Alien) to all be in the Human Mind Class.

Most PC robots in superheroic settings would also be put in the human mindclass (that are that advanced and do not count as Machine Mind anymore).

Great point. : )

 

 
Regarding Weapons: Blaster pistol, Blaster Rifle, BowCaster, general all ranged blaster weapons. 
What would your prefer, that this weapons do Normal damage, or Killing damage`? 
 
I'm not sure what way to go, 
Killing damage, might kill the players all the time (thats no fun)
Normal damage, feels some kind wrong.
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I'm not familiar with 6th edition.  But I poked around a little bit with doing Star Wars in 5th edition, and here's what I came up with.

 

#1:  Heroic scale.  Han and Luke run around in stormtrooper armor with stormtrooper weapons for half of the original movie.

 

#2:  Keep the low end of the scale low.  For stormtroopers, I used 4 edition Viper troop writeups.  Once you subtract their equipment costs, they're like 50 pts apiece.  Stormtrooper armor didn't seem much better than the 6 PD 3 ED armor that the Viper guys wore.  I converted the weapons over to killing damage (instead of an 8D6 EB they used a 2 1/2 D6 RKA).

 

#3:  Starting heroes are about 150 points.  You can pretty easily do "1st movie Luke" on 150.  His force powers are just beginning to show (danger sense, and, umm, that's about it).

 

#4:  Keep force powers cheap.  I know there have been some video games where people were pulling star destroyers out of the sky with the force.  That's dumb.  Through the entire series, Luke is running around with maybe 15-20 Str TK, some telepathy, missile deflection, and enhanced senses.  That's perfectly easy to do with a small multipower.  

 

#5:  Be willing to fudge the big stuff (like Yoda lifting the X-Wing) as non-combat only, and don't worry about maximum ranges on anything.  Otherwise your Jedi characters will end up being incredibly expensive for no real benefit.  Vader does not throw TIE fighters at people.  Consider giving people a Force skill and with a high roll, they can exceed their normal abilities for noncombat tasks.  So Yoda might have 25 Str TK for his normal stuff, but his KS: Force at 20- lets him pick up small starships and things like that.

 

Poking around with my writeups, Darth Vader still ended up being like 350 points, which is incredibly expensive in a heroic game.  Even then, though, he's still like a 20 Dex and 5 Speed, with a 9 OCV with lightsaber.  

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I played around with running a Star Wars Hero game a while back.

 

• Character Creation started at 200 pts. (w/75 pts. of Disads/Complications)

• Human Max Stats were set at 20, while certain aliens could go past this.

• Force Powers used Multipowers, though to access them, players had to purchase a 15 pt. perk called "Force Sensitive".

• A new stat called Dark Side Taint was used. DST started at 0 and players gained points with evil actions. At the beginning of every game, the GM rolled (DST/5)+9 to see if the hero had a Dark Side Moment during the game. Heroes could atone to decrease their DST, which would often be a story quest of some kind. 

• All equipment was bought with credits, and modified with the appropriate time and credits. Modify rolls were always calculated (AP/5)-skill needed.

• Droids could be bought as Followers, or they could be played as players. I intended to create a list of mods for them.

• Lightsabers were a MP in themselves.

 

I believe that's about as far as I got. I might have statted out some of the species and occupational templates, though I think I used the concepts from the old WEG/d6 version of the game (by far one of my favorites). Unfortunately, my players wanted to go another direction with the game, so we played something else.

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500 points!?  My personal opinion has always been that people were aiming too low, but didn't realize how low.   I've always found your builds to be pretty accurate but I'm surprised that you used that many points.   I must have been underestimating more than I thought. 

Thanks for the compliment :D

 

I just kind of decided that Star Wars wasn't a Fantasy Sci Fi genre. What it actually was was Superheroic Fantasy SciFi. I didn't spend nearly that many points on the non-jedi and I didn't make anyone pay for weapons.

 

Here's some of the characters: BTW they are a Star Wars/Serenity(Firefly) mashup and have some western elements too.

Seramia is their Mechanic and semi secretly a Jedi Counselar. She has learned to hide her Force powers.

Meladosia is their Science Experiment Girl, Her brother is "Doc". She was trained to use darkside powers without the Debilitating issues. No One knows if she's going to slide to the Darkside or not.

Sev Vao is a former Republic Clone Commando. Left for dead on Kashyyyk taking out a seporatist AA site saving the planet from Occupation. He actually never recieved Order 66. He was put back together by a Wookie (The Co Pilot Nawruun) and his village.

Oon Gene Walker, is the Pilot. He's friends with Doc and helped Doc retrieve Meladosia from the Imperial research center. He also procured EM-6-10 who he found in pieces while waiting for doc to retrieve his sister.

Doc. He's modeled on Doc Holiday, but with real doctor skills.

Duchess, I don't remember her background much as she didn't get much play and is the least fleshed out characer. She was supposed to be the analog for Inara Serra (with out the Companion thing, I was running this in a game store PG only).

Seramia Mechanic Jedi.hdc

Meladosia.hdc

Sev Vao Capt..hdc

Oon Gene Walker.hdc

Nawruun.hdc

Doc .hdc

EM-6-10.hdc

Duchess.hdc

DefaultPrintTemplateHeroicSerif6eNoPts.hde

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