Weapon Maintenance

[Glupii]

I am trying to see if it is possible to simulate the armor and weapon degradation in Fallout for my PA game without it becoming too much of a hassle for my players. We are looking at the ablative limitation for armor. Not to bad. But how about for weapons? Both Melee and Firearms and energy weapons. Is there a mechanic I am not aware of in the game already for handling this? (Please keep in mind I am reletively new to the more escoteric parts of the game and if this is a silly simple question I appologize up front)

[Glupii]

And for what it is worth, I looked up the Real Weapon limitation and the quote "The exact results are up to the GM's fiendish imagination." is what I am asking for advice on handling I guess.

[AlHazred]

If you want to simulate cinematic weapon maintenance, then mention the characters maintaining their weapons during camp in your narration from time to time. At a key moment, at least once in each arc of the campaign, use a weapon failure during the denouement in order to increase tension in the scene (not as an "instant-fail" mechanic, but more of a "you'll have to work even harder now, if that's even possible" event).

 

If you want to simulate "realistic" (or at least plausible) weapon maintenance, then tell the players their characters will need to maintain weapons every couple of days, and they'll need to tell you they're doing it. Keep a spreadsheet of all the weapons in the group, and mark when a day passes in-game but they haven't stated they're maintaining a weapon. Don't just tell them what weapons they have on their persons -- let them tell you what specifically they're working on. They'll mention the regularly-used weapons, but what about the knife in the boot or the holdout gun in the backpack? What about the surprise weapon Jose boarded up in the door of the car? Each personal weapon should take 1 Hour to maintain at a minimum; people with the appropriate Weaponsmith might get to do it in 20 Minutes if you're feeling generous. Don't forget they have to maintain armor, too.

 

Mark each day a weapon isn't maintaained. After a weapon hasn't been maintained for 1 Week per point of its BODY, make a note that it is now -1 OCV until it gets a full 6 Hour maintainence (1 Hour for a skilled Weaponsmith) and reduce its BODY by 1. After the first 1 BODY drop due to lack of maintenance, it can't lose more BODY that way until a great deal of time has passed (but see below). Once its OCV penalty is as high as its PD, it's pretty much ruined.

 

If weapons take damage during combat (and melee weapons should frequently take damage) then they require more than the regular maintenance to bring them back to full. Once a weapon is down any BODY, it shouldn't be fixable to full BODY anymore; that's the facts of life in the post-apocalyptic wasteland.

[Nolgroth]

If you truly want to mimic Fallout, then why not adapt Ablative to your purposes? Try this. I touched upon this in my notes in your "Fallout----Again" thread. This is a slightly modified version. Create a new Activation adder called Degradation. Degradation works just like Ablative. Every turn the weapon is used, an Activation roll is made. If it passes, no Degradation. If it fails, the Activation roll degrades by one point. For even more fun, as the weapon degrades into the 11- or lower range, you can add a penalty to OCV or the DC of the weapon. For guns, maybe it takes a little extra time to reload the weapon. A failed roll at 8- indicates a Burnout. Given the proper materials and a field kit a character can use his Weaponsmith skill to repair the weapon. He can only restore it up to his Weaponsmith roll value. If the weapon "burns out" (misses the final 8- Activation roll) it becomes useless until fixed at a shop with the proper tools.

 

The initial quality of the weapon will definitely impact how long it can be used. For example a "crate" weapon would have an Activation 17-, meaning it only degrades on an 18. That weapon could last a very long time before even dropping one point of Activation. Eventually though, even the best of weapons will eventually start to fail. It would make maintenance an essential part of survival.

 

Drawbacks: 1) An extra roll every Post-12 Recovery.  2) There may be a perception that the weapons degrade a little too fast. I for one think that Fallout weapons do. You may even change the interval from once per Turn to once per Combat if this starts becoming an issue (assuming you adopt this method). 3) I have not playtested this method at all, so it may not even be very good.

[Glupii]

Nolgrath, one of my players and I had been discussing something very similar to this. My problem was, as I understand it, Armor begins with no Activation roll and does not get one until Body done in an attack exceeds the Def of the armor. Then it automatically gains a 15- roll. (If I am not understanding Albative correctly, please someone correct me) So my question was if I used that same mechanic, what would be the action that would cause a fully repaired weapon to make that first drop. But by staring everything out at a 17- at fully repaired, that will work beautifully. To keep with the FO model, maybe Armor needs to have a max repair of 17- as well?

I also like that without a shop and proper tools they can't repair something beyond their roll. It also allows me some "treasure" options for them. Some hide that will allow you to repair to your max +1 (to a 17- max) or tools that increase the repair skill itself for so many charges.

 

As for how often to do this, I am thinking for weapons, at the end of every combat, any weapon used will have to make the roll once. Additionally if they do something harsh on the weapon (aka use the rifle as a club or strike a wall with an edged weapon) they need to take an imeediate roll.

I was thinking these penalties, comments would be welcome:

Roll      Effect

-----      --------------------------------------

15-       -1 DC

13-       -1 OCV

11-       -1 DC, failing the roll jams the weapon, full phase to clear then reload.

9-         Burnout - Failure means the weapon cannot be used again in this combat. Must be cleared out of combat.

7-         Broken - weapon unrepairable, only good as parts.

 

Now some questions on repairing a weapon:

• You must have parts. Assuming they sacrifice another weapon of that same type, should the salvaged weapon's condition affect the repair roll?
• How much should a repair roll repair the weapon? +1 for a successful roll and +1 for every 2 the repair roll is made by? Maybe an additional bonus depending on the parts used?
• Maybe a salvage weapon (one that can no longer be repaired) can be "broken down" into a generic "Weapon Parts" and it takes so many of these "Weapon Parts" to repair a weapon of any kind? Or maybe break it down into Pistol, Rifle, Automatic, Laser, Plasma, Launchers categories? So that the weaponsmith will have to have the right weapon parts to repair that weapon?

 

Thank you very much for everyone's ideas and help.

 

[Christopher]

I guess you mean the Fallout 3 and New Vegas Maintenance system. It's a new addition made by Bethesda, none of the earlier Fallout titles had it.

 

You could just say that this is a everyman Complciation in your Campaign:

Dependance, Loss of Power (14- Roll), 1 Day, Maintenance (Easy to Obtain)

 

But first you should ask yourself if that would really add fun to the game.

The one part is that a Computer has one thing going for it: It can really track numbers well and always remmeber to make a check. We humans are not nearly at good at it. In fact I think that element was added because it was darn easy for a computer to do and distracted you from all the limitations the computer RPG approach has over the P&P approach.

The other part is wheter your players want it. Fallout has been the strugle of one or few against unsurmountable odds in a postapocalyptic wasteland*. Not the strugle to find a maintenance kit for thier gun. While it certainly adds detail and realism, will it add fun? Game can actually go overboard with the details so hard they choke off the fun.

 

 

*We had:

The quest to find a Waterchip and later kill the Mutant master.

The quest to find a G.E.C.K. and later stop the NCR from doing shit

The quest to help the brotherhood of blood fight down a fully fleged robot uprising (and earlier bandits). Included using a Nuke to open a door.

The quest to find a father wich turned into the quest to provide the Capital Wasteland with clean water.

Whatever happened in New Vegas (have not played it so far).

[Glupii]

Absolutly agree with you Christopher. All the things I am talking about here I am also talking about with my players and we will only put into play that which we are willing to try together. So far they like the idea of the limitations it provides (can't just go nuts with the weapons without considering what it is doing to them). But if it get too much, we will remove what we need to.

[Nolgroth]

To keep with the FO model, maybe Armor needs to have a max repair of 17- as well?

 

Now some questions on repairing a weapon:

• You must have parts. Assuming they sacrifice another weapon of that same type, should the salvaged weapon's condition affect the repair roll?
• How much should a repair roll repair the weapon? +1 for a successful roll and +1 for every 2 the repair roll is made by? Maybe an additional bonus depending on the parts used?
• Maybe a salvage weapon (one that can no longer be repaired) can be "broken down" into a generic "Weapon Parts" and it takes so many of these "Weapon Parts" to repair a weapon of any kind? Or maybe break it down into Pistol, Rifle, Automatic, Laser, Plasma, Launchers categories? So that the weaponsmith will have to have the right weapon parts to repair that weapon?

For the first question, you could go either way. Using the same mechanism for both weapons and armor would certainly be more consistent and easier for the players to remember.

 

Salvaged parts should be a requirement. Sort of like a blacksmith forge is required to make a sword. I would only provide a +1 bonus (at best) for having parts. Maybe taking parts from a spare weapon in good shape would provide a bonus. 

 

How much should a skill roll allow a weapon to be repaired?  For me, I would say you only need one roll, the parts, and the time to repair it.

 

If you want to add granularity, how 'bout +1 for making the roll and +1 for every two rolled under the skill roll. For example a Skill of 13- and the person rolls a 9. The weapon regains +3 to the Activation roll (assuming it doesn't put the Activation above the Weaponsmith roll of course). That adds an extra reward for having a good Weaponsmith roll.

 

Some weapon parts are usable in other weapons, especially if they are of the same model. I suppose you could have surplus parts that can be modified to work with different weapons. I am not sure how to handle that concept. The gun nut in me is leery of this. the practical side of me thinks that it can be "MacGuyvered." The game master in me thinks that these random bits can be collected and use as spare parts. That is certainly going to be your call.

 

If you wanted to simulate the Weapon Repair Kits from New Vegas, then spare parts can be assembled into a WRK with a proper Weaponsmith roll. Those would automatically apply a bonus of +1 to +3 to the Activation roll of the weapon. Think of them as a saved up Weaponsmith roll. Character would still have to take the time to replace the defunct parts. 

[NuSoardGraphite]

Firearms would incur a jam roll of 15 or less which would deteriorate by -1 per designated time period that goes by without maintenence. they may also incur penalties to their accuracy at range.

 

Melee weapons could become dull, losing damage class, though i probably wouldnt drop it any further than -1. weapons that begin to rust would lose defense and eventually become brittle and easily destroyed.

 

Stringed ranged weapons such as bows and crossbows would lose both damage class and range and may also incur penalties at range (-1 or -2 to range penalties.

[Glupii]

After discussing these excellent ideas with my players we decided to try the following:

 

All weapons start at fully repaired with a 17- roll. All Armor begin with no roll but as soon as that piece of armor (we still want to keep sectional armor) takes more body that it has Def, it will begin to degrade and gain a 15- roll.

 

After every combat scenario, all weapons used in the combat and armor that took a hit in that combat (regardless of the amount of damage) needs to make its activation roll or drop by a -1. Armor that failed to activate in the combat does not count as being hit (The bullet passed right through the same hole!).

 

Repair can be done in one of two ways. Field repair can be accomplished by anyone with a Repair Skill (a dex based skill roll anyone can take) can roll to repair the damage. It takes 1 hour per item to do the repair. The Repair roll determines both the amount it is repaired and the upper limit. The item is repaired one plus by making the roll and an additional +1 for every two by which the roll is made. However the item cannot be repaired beyond the skill roll. (So if the item is at 10- and the person's skill roll is 12-, if they make a roll of 8, they can repair the item up to their maximum of 12- and the additional bonus is lost)

 

Weapons take penalties at certain levels of damage.

15- loses one DC from max

13- takes a -1 OCV and -1 Range Mod

11- loses a second DC from max

9- Activation roll required every time it is used. Failure means it is jammed and requires a full phase to clear

7- Failed Activation roll means the weapon has seriously jammed and must be cleared out of combat

5- Weapon is burned out and can no longer be repaired and can only be used as parts.

 

Armor can degrade until it reaches 3- since the diminishing protection will be enough for them to replace it before this.

 

More robust repair can be done outside of combat with Weaponsmith and Armorsmith. A successful roll can repair it all the way to full (17- for weapons, no roll for armor) but correct materials must be on hand to repair it with. (Weapons of the same type, Leather, Scrap Metal, etc.) Also they must have the correct tools and area to work on the item. Trying to do so with improvised tools gains a -2 to a -6 on the roll depending on the tool (GM Decides). Weaponsmith and Armorsmith can obviously also be used to make new items and with the Inventor skill, even create new types if the GM agrees.

 

There are a few more small details but that is the crux of it. The players agreed that this does not seem like it would be more than they are willing to try to keep up with and I am willing to try it out. Could be a complete fail, upon which we will modify as needed. Or it might give us just the amount of flavor I am hoping will carry into this gritty style of game. I will try to keep this post updated so anyone else trying this can either take away from it or learn from our mistakes. Many thanks for all the great input.

[Nolgroth]

I like your system. Do keep us posted as I might like to try that some day.

 

I will make some changes if I ever use it, but the baseline is solid.