Jump to content

Recommended Posts

I recently tried out a new house rule that I really like, so I thought I'd throw it out there for discussion. It was specifically developed for a Monster Hunter International game I ran at GenghisCon last month, but I think it could be applicable for any game with heavy Gun Fu.
 
Something that's always bugged me a little about gunfights in Hero is how long it takes to run out of ammo. Even using Autofire, Rapid Fire, etc, a 30-round magazine will usually last several Turns. For my MHI game, I really wanted to simulate the "I empty the magazine, drop that weapon, and draw my backup" standard action that's so common in the books. The new Firearms Manuevers in the MHI RPG book are pretty good, but I felt they were a little too complicated for Hero Newbies in a 4-hour con game. And I really wanted one rule that worked the same whether the character was using single-shot, autofire, or whatever. So after playing around with several different options, I settled on:
 
Hail Of Lead: For any firearm attack, doubling the number of rounds fired gives a +1 OCV or +1 Damage Class to that attack. (For Killing Attacks, such as most guns, +1 DC can be simplified as +1 Body.) So for single-shot attacks, firing 2 rounds grants a +1 OCV or +1 Damage; 4 rounds grants a +2; etc. Autofire attacks work exactly the same: if your Autofire burst is normally a 3-shot attack, firing 6 rounds gives you a +1; 12 rounds gives you a +2; etc. Hail of Lead is considered a variant on the Pushing rules, not a manuever; so at GM's discretion, it may be used in conjunction with other maneuvers such as Bracing, or even Rapid Fire.
 
It wound up working out really well! It didn't slow down play noticably, but let the players give that extra little dramatic effort, whether they were hosing down a room full of chupacabras or trying to push past a demon's Damage Negation. More important it really felt cinematic, with expended brass flying all over the place Matrix-style, and made for some fun roleplaying choices: "Do I blow through the rest of the magazine this Phase and hope that finishes it off? If I'm wrong, it could get to me before I can reload..." (The two PCs with Fast Draw were the envy of the group!)
 
Not appropriate for all campaigns, of course, and could be unbalancing in a game where players pay points for their equipment. (Part of the discount for Charges is because you can't Push.) But for Heroic games where you want a lot of shell casing on the ground at the end of the balltle, or Post-Apoc games where rationing ammo is important, I highly recommend it.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So for keeping play on track do you have a chart ready for the players or are they just winging it? A sub-machine gun that can empty a 30 round magazine in one action could not only be devastating it would also have the potential of slowing down the game as people try to figure out the bonus. My experience has been things that slow down the action also take away fun, so I am curious.

 

Would firing a 30 round magazine give +4 or +5?

Also what was the largest "Hail of Lead" used?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would probably say this replaces the Haymaker maneuver (in other words you cannot use both) and give them a choice of either +1 OCV or +1 DC per x2 with a maximum of x8 (so +3/+0, +2/+1, +1/+2, or +0/+3 at most which is in line with the +3 DC from a Haymaker, but with no -5 DCV penalty)

 

Larry

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I really like the way that this sounds.  I don't think that I would use it for individual shots though.  Most of the characters that use single shot weapons rely on Rapid Fire for multiple shots (and that gets them burning ammo pretty quick).  On the other hand I LOVE this for Autofire attacks.  I think it will really add something to the game.  A fun fact from way back - in the early versions of Champions you got a bonus to OCV just for purchasing Autofire.  I don't think that I would use the DC bonus, just the OCV.

 

My take on it at this point would be for each doubling of bursts they would get +1 to OCV (to a maximum of +2).  It becomes a full phase attack but can be used with Brace, Set and/or Strafe.  I think it will really up the action level and make even the high DCV characters think twice when they take on someone with a machinegun.  At this point I would also limit it to only full Autofire (No 2 or 3 shot +1/4 stuff) or require a 5 shot/10 shot investment for the bonus.  I think I would also limit characters as to the area that they can affect to the original advantage.  Meaning that they can't fire into a 40 meter area at +2 OCV since they are now firing 20 bullets.  They have to put all 20 (or 10) shots into at most a 10m area (essentially the area covered by their original autofire purchase).

 

I never liked the old "Blazing Away" rule in 5e where you would send tons of rounds down range but only hit on a natural 3.  I think that when we are talking about that many rounds it would be easier to hit something, right?

 

Thanks for the great idea.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I never liked the old "Blazing Away" rule in 5e where you would send tons of rounds down range but only hit on a natural 3.  I think that when we are talking about that many rounds it would be easier to hit something, right?

 

Wrong, you can't hit squat on full auto.   :bmk:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sure you can.  I personally completely tore up a silhouette at 100 meters with an M249 and I was doing it from the hip, Rambo style .  You put enough rounds down range and have even a passing knowledge of what you're doing and your target is toast.  Just walk it in.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"Hail of Lead" is almost exactly the Additional Autofire Skills from APG I 35. Great minds thing alike.

 

Sure you can.  I personally completely tore up a silhouette at 100 meters with an M249 and I was doing it from the hip, Rambo style .  You put enough rounds down range and have even a passing knowledge of what you're doing and your target is toast.  Just walk it in.

On a shooting range you can use the Brace and Set to improve your aim. Try to use those in a combat situation and you are dead before you have your second phase. Also, how many soots did you fire and how many did actually hit? Would you be even remotely able to do the same agaisnt a moving target that shoots back? A moving target anywhere on the usual combat range of a HMG?

Shooting range performances is always better then combat performance. And I don't need combat experience to know that, just common sense.

 

I never liked the old "Blazing Away" rule in 5e where you would send tons of rounds down range but only hit on a natural 3.  I think that when we are talking about that many rounds it would be easier to hit something, right?

This rule is in APG i 166 too. You only hit on natural 3. No positive modifiers apply.

Most importanlty is that it counts as "Extremely Violent Action" for Presence Attack bonuses. Providing that bonus seems to be the main purpose (and is spelled out in the example).

 

Perhaps waht you want is an area of effect attack. Blazing away with a HMG could be betteer simulated with a AoE Power then conventional combat rules. You are not aiming for a specific target, just filling an area with bullets. The AoE Non-Selective Rules seem to be made for that scenario (you still have a roll to hit).

 

I think the Shadowrun 4E rules for Cover fire might be a good thing to look at.Just need to dig it out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You are absolutely right, combat isn't even close to what you do at a firing range. But I will say that you can and should brace and set in combat (from a covered position). I sprayed a two hundred round belt and probably hit 15-20% of them. Once you hit the target it isn't hard to keep it in the neighborhood. An M249 is a Light Machinegun and fires a 5.56mm round so the recoil isn't hard to handle. My results would have been a lot different with the M60 in the same firing position (or lackthereof).

 

Honestly it really isn't important. It's a game and whatever helps the flavor of your game is what you should use. IMHO actual combat can't be compared anyway. I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of automatic fire, period. It just seems to me that the effect is minimized by the system. In my games I want to convey that to the characters and one way of doing it is to make them easier to hit with autofire. Of course your mileage may vary.

 

I have seen and do use some of the Autofire skills. They make a character with a machinegun much more effective and, again IMO, more realistic. I like the thought of using AE for automatic fire weapons but that gets really expensive when designing them. That scenario is somewhat covered using the Suppressive Fire maneuver anyway.

 

My final point is that automatic weapons never would have been developed if they did not give an average soldier an advantage in combat. They DO make it easier to hit a target if used correctly, especially in a run and gun scenario. I think I would rather have an M16 than a Beretta in actual combat. If you think it is hard to hit something by spraying bullets at them try it with one shot while being fired at. All other things being equal, in this case, more is more.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So for keeping play on track do you have a chart ready for the players or are they just winging it

 

I had a sheet clipped to the player side of my GM screen with:

 

Hail Of Lead: Double # of rounds fired to increase accuracy or damage.

  • 2x rounds   =>   +1 to OCV   or   +1 Damage

  • 4x rounds   =>   +2 to OCV   or   +1 Damage

  • 8x rounds   =>   +3 to OCV   or   +1 Damage

  • Etc.

I left it to the players to do the math, figuring anyone who can't do 4x3 in their head probably shouldn't be playing Hero anyway. :)

 

Also what was the largest "Hail of Lead" used?

 

AK-47, 30-round magazine emptied all-at-once point blank into a charging demon; at 6x the normal 5-round Autofire, I went ahead and rounded it up to a +3, which the player put into damage.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would probably say this replaces the Haymaker maneuver (in other words you cannot use both)

I hadn't thought about it, but yeah allowing this to combine with Haymaker would be pretty broken!

 

I don't think that I would use it for individual shots though.  Most of the characters that use single shot weapons rely on Rapid Fire for multiple shots (and that gets them burning ammo pretty quick).

I like Rapid Fire/Multiple Attack too. But while that maneuver allows you to make multiple hits if you can hit, it doesn't make you any more likely to hit a target with a high DCV, nor help you in pushing past a target's defenses. The latter was partly an attempt to be true to the source material. In the MHI books, when shooting something once fails to hurt a monster, their response is to shoot it more. ;)  I admit it doesn't make a ton of sense realistically, but I think it works cinematically.

 

I don't think that I would use the DC bonus, just the OCV.

I remember that rule!

 

I think it will really up the action level and make even the high DCV characters think twice when they take on someone with a machinegun. 

In the game I ran, the Bad Guys were mostly monsters, not gunmen. So no NPCs got to use this. I think I'd be pretty conservative using it against PCs, in the same way that NPCs rarely if ever get to Push.

 

I think I would also limit characters as to the area that they can affect to the original advantage.  Meaning that they can't fire into a 40 meter area at +2 OCV since they are now firing 20 bullets.  They have to put all 20 (or 10) shots into at most a 10m area (essentially the area covered by their original autofire purchase).

That makes sense.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wrong, you can't hit squat on full auto.   :bmk:

Well, yes & no. I used to do a lot of shooting (military & law enforcement). And yes, I generally found quick well-aimed single shots or short controlled bursts to be more accurate. But while full auto may not make you more likely to hit - or at least not as much as most people think - it doesn't actually make you less likely to hit; even assuming every round after 1-3 is wasted, the first 1-3 rounds are still aimed, right? Full auto does have the advantage of being fast, and is useful when you're firing while on the move or otherwise not confident you can hit at all and are just trying to increase your odds of getting a lucky shot.

 

And while I don't normally play the "but it's cinematic!" card, that really was the feel I was going for. :)

 

I should also note that, at least in my mind, Hail Of Lead doesn't have to mean full auto. It could just mean snapping off a lot of rounds/bursts in a short timeframe. Most police shootouts only last a few seconds, and # of rounds fired ranges from "most of them" to "reloading." Even at my peak, I would never have rated above a Speed 3, but I could accurately empty a 12-round pistol in 3-5 seconds. Similarly, with my old M16 I could squeeze off several well-aimed bursts per Phase, and I was hardly superheroic. So think of it as quick fire, not necessarily full spray-and-pray.

 

"Hail of Lead" is almost exactly the Additional Autofire Skills from APG I 35. Great minds thing alike.

Similar, I'll grant. But those skills don't give you any benefit from expending additional ammo beyond the standard Autofire # of rounds. And they're Skills a character has to purchase, whereas in this case I wanted a simple campaign-wide rule, rather than more character specialization options. (Nothing wrong with the latter of course, just not what I was shooting for, ha ha sorry for the bad pun.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hail of Lead is interesting but it seems that it is replicating the Firearm Maneuvers from MHI p.204 - Multifire and Precise Autofire, which were taken from APG1 as Christopher mentioned.  Although I did House Rule that these powers could be used with any Small-arms gun with or without autofire to make it simple for my players.

 

I like the idea of an AOE Non-Selective attack to represent a Hail of Lead and have used it in a previous game. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...