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Jason S.Walters

Fantasy Hero Complete Kickstarter Is Live

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You may be right, Hugh. But AFAICT "all those gamers out there" who are saying "recommend me a game" are dedicated gamers like us who frequent online communities like this one. That's a small percentage of the player base, and perhaps not a representative one. Even the vaunted Pathfinder has only a fraction of D&D's sales. And even D&D's market is shrinking, like all tabletop RPGs.

 

Are there other ways to present HERO which could draw in some more gamers? Probably. But significant numbers of them? I wish I could be more optimistic about that. If there really was such a magic bullet, wouldn't someone have found it by now?

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If over the past, say, six years, if we could have recommended a really great game based on HERO, how many new HERO gamers would we have?  Maybe not a lot, but ... more than we have now, I'm sure.  

 

As it is, we don't have a game we can recommend so much as a system.

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You may be right, Hugh. But AFAICT "all those gamers out there" who are saying "recommend me a game" are dedicated gamers like us who frequent online communities like this one. That's a small percentage of the player base, and perhaps not a representative one. Even the vaunted Pathfinder has only a fraction of D&D's sales. And even D&D's market is shrinking, like all tabletop RPGs.

 

Are there other ways to present HERO which could draw in some more gamers? Probably. But significant numbers of them? I wish I could be more optimistic about that. If there really was such a magic bullet, wouldn't someone have found it by now?

 

You mean like, say, a way to bring more people to the gaming stores?  Well, I'm sure that there were no magic bullets in 1971 - they were just dying.  No point publishing a game where, say, you play individual characters instead of vast armies.  Certainly, that was the last one. 

 

Well, OK, but after that we were done - certainly it had all been done by 1990!  A strategy like, say, putting game components in random sampler packaging rather than all the components in one box would never generate any new revenues or interest, right?

 

Seems to me most successful innovations weren't obvious magic bullets until after the first guy tried marketing it.  Back in the '30's, there was a game rejected by the manufacturers because NO ONE would want  a board game that took an hour or more to play.

 

[For that matter, clearly the allure of RPG's was those multi-sided dice - why would ANYONE step back to just those familiar 6 siders?]

 

I don't know what the answer is.  I do know that the best way to keep getting the same results (regardless of the field or objective) is to keep doing things exactly the sale, and hoping the results will change,

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. Even the vaunted Pathfinder has only a fraction of D&D's sales

 

 

Is that actually the case? I was under the impression that Pathfinder was beating out D&D in sales.

 

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Palindromedary Enterprises on the other hand isn't making much money

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OK, looking at the graph, Pathfinder was beating D&D from Q1 2011 to Fall, 2014. Pathfinder was released in Q3, 2009, so it held the top spot for the majority of its publishing history.

 

D&D 4e was released Summer/08 and 5e in the Fall of '14, so about 6 years, and was outsold by Pathfinder for nearly four years.  If I were Paizo, I would not be too unhappy with those results, especially having never been out of the Top 2 sellers, and being the only game to ever outsell D&D.

 

The source publisher cites a six year growth record for "hobby games" and a market 2.25 times what it was in 2008, when it last declined.  It doesn't show how those sales are determined ($$, units, etc.) or provide comparative figures, so comparing #1 and #2 is not possible.  Presumably, WoTC/Hasbro is hoping 5e will keep them at the top. Time will tell.

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On the other hand, D&D and Pathfinder are kind of like Tweedledee and Tweedledum. Pathfinder proves you can beat D&D by becoming D&D.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Palindromedaries and Palaces

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It's not unfair to consider Pathfinder a D&D edition/clone.  The original engine, practically, is D&D 3.75 edition.  A lot of the later add-ons went in a different direction (in part because many later & add-ons aren't covered by the OGL, I think, and in part due to a desire to move in a different direction (for example, with archetypes largely replacing prestige classes).

 

To a greater or lesser extent, there are plenty of D&D clones in the marketplace, and have been more or less since the hobby got its start.

 

Whether Mutants and Masterminds is a "D&D clone" (it's d20, but massively varies from the d20 model, and probably owes at least as much to Champions as to D&D) is a good question, for example.

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Yup, the world loves D&D.  It seems to have been the one, essential RPG all along. Sort of the King Arthur of RPGs. "You will be the industry, and the industry will be you. If you fail, the industry will perish; as you thrive, the industry will blossom."

 

Fortunately for the industry, when D&D 4e failed Paizo stepped in and provided the world with a second King when the first went astray. (Does that make Paizo a Good version of Morgana?)

 

Pathfinder is essentially a second development branch of D&D, branching from 3.5e as you said. Without the mistakes of 4e (including the licensing changes), there probably wouldn't be a Pathfinder.  But because of those mistakes, the world essentially has two D&Ds. It'll be interesting to see how it works out over the coming years.

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The problem with D+D is they had a great model and blew it up.

 

The problem with Pathfinder is that they not only don't have access to certain "iconic" creatures, but the replacements have incomprehensible names, shapes, and appearances. They rely on whatever is in the public domain to fill in the gaps, such as Lovecraft, mythology from obscure religions, etc.

 

They've also fallen victim to the "Too many gods" syndrome, where their book on religion contains more faiths than anyone could ever possibly cover in RPGs in their entire lifetime. As long as there was a certain economy to it, it was fine. Now it's approaching a Forgotten Realms level of loreness, where everything is poorly indexed and information appears in too many different places.

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