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bpmasher

Weapons for World War 2 Hero

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...there are MANY discussions of the faults of the various militaries prior to and during WWII, and what just a LITTLE time travel could do to fix them....  ;)

 

Wars in general are like that--very chaotic and exhibiting high sensitivity to initial conditions. That's why I find that wars are generally to be avoided in foreign policy, unless they're the kind of wars Sun Tzu espouses: the ones you don't start until you've already won. And even then there is a good chance things could go sideways.

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All due respect, I think this is a difference between theory and execution.  The Germans were much more effective then the French during World War Two (and World War One, and the Franco Prussian War, etc.) because they were able to put their tactics into practice.  The French may have come up with some theories, such as Charles DeGaulle's notions of the use of Armor, but lacked both the equipment and the doctrine to put it into practice.  For example a model of light machine gun the French produced during World War One had an open magazine that frequently jammed with dirty.  On top of this, French equipment was hand machined versus the use of assembly line, which meant that parts from one machine gun would not work with another even of the same model.  

 

This seems to be typical of French military operations throughout history--a base of highly motivated and effective soldiery consistently hamstrung by their own leadership and engineers.  That started as early as Crecy and continued all the way through Vietnam.

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France's core problem is that it has a population of 46 million, while Germany has a population of --crap, would you stop annexing your neighbours long enough for us to take a reading?

 

So France can't fight Germany without allies, which means the British Empire, and mobilisation is kind of like a race, with Britain starting on the wrong side of an ocean at best. (Canada, for example, is going to have to make an army before it can play. "Hold on, guys, don't start anything, we're almost ready!")

 

So you mobilise, and you --well, the devil is in the details. Jean and Heinz and a few Maries report to the headquarters, full of patriotic vim and vigour, a training distinctly in need of a refresher, and a start on a middle-aged spread. Some time later, they are at wherever the armies ended up meeting and sitting down and digging trenches --in the French case, trenches that are linked to peace-built fortifications that are the crucial force multipliers that let the French hold out until their allies get there.

 

It's this meeting-and-settling-down that's tricky. In military terms, we are talking about a meeting engagement, a situation of maximum chaos in which Germany has some major advantages. (More horses in 1870, more planes in 1940.) So French doctrine places very heavy emphasis on the couverture, the screening and covering of the mobilisation process. Forces of couverture are mobile, in time or in space. The first infantry to mobilise are couverture units, because they are in the field first. So is the horse cavalry, because it marches faster. (Though it is fashionable in modern popular military history for people to open their mouths and make claims to the contrary come out, it is also possible to look at actual march tables.)

 

....And then there's the armour. Here we have a whole set of problems. For one, it is not possible yet to create armour reserve units, because reasons. Second, armour isn't necessarily fast on its feet, because the vehicles might be heavy and slow and require lots of trucks and fuel tankers and rail cars to move any distance. Because what is the point of having tanks in the first place if you don't have heavily armoured, heavily armed tanks with good transmissions that allow them to move around a contested battlefield? (I put the bit about transmission in to take account of the Cletrac transmission of the Char B1, which is part of the explanation for its weird looks.) The French started World War II with three divisions with heavy tanks like this. They are not very good at couverture.

 

Char-B1bis-Saumur.0004axt0.jpg

 

So now you're making your tanks light and mobile. They're fast enough to perform the mission of couverture, but what do they do afterwards? You do not have the manpower luxury of committing entire units to just one mission. So you create a tank that is heavy and light. 

 

1280px-Char_1935_S_Somua_1.jpg

 

Which, as you suspect, is not actually possible.  The French had, by 1940, three divisions equipped with tanks like this. You will notice that this makes 6 armoured divisions --they were on their way to, I think, 8. The Germans, of course, had 10: so the unit ratio for French versus German armoured divisions is not that far off the overall comparison by numbers of divisions. The Germans like to lump in the French army's other armoured fighting vehicles to prove that they were outnumbered in 1940. This in turn leads to the conclusion that the French were dispersing their armour. The problem is that we're talking about a machine with basically the same capability and role as a Bren gun carrier. Unfortunately, the French dropped a turret on theirs, with the result that everyone's, like, "You tots don't understand armoured warfare doctrine, losers!"

 

What happened is that the French put their three actual armoured divisions into the Low Countries as couverture for the most dangerous movement at the start of hostilities, and, incidentally, for the BEF. (So some gratitude would be nice, British dudes.) The pivot of their movement also required a screen of couverture entering the Ardennes. Because it was moving ahead of an actually-existing secure defence line along the Meuse river, and because of the exigencies of the alliance, the French opted to use their horse cavalry for this mission. There was just not enough armour to go around to give the hay burners more than a brigade of attached "cavalry tanks."

 

As we know, they encountered 7 of 10 German armoured divisions (and their one cavalry unit), all advancing towards the Meuse as the German main effort. The French horsed cavalry, and the Belgian mechanised brigade, retreated before them. The French fell back behind the Meuse, and were resting their horses on May 13, when the Germans broke the Meuse line, mostly at Sedan, and mostly with infantry fighting infantry. At this point, the Germans were less than 120 miles from the estuary of the Somme at Abbeville, and this proved to be not enough time-and-space for the French to restore a defensive position. There should have been a counterattack across the shoulder of the penetration, but there wasn't, mainly because the French and Belgians had to fall back on conformance with a panicky British retreat from the Escaut/Scheldt line. 

 

For which we have Lord Gort to thanks, and, by the way, Gort was besties with a certain British military historian/well-placed political advisor named Basil Liddell Hart, a  man whose grip on the need to get your nose seriously brown in life had already led him to an intimate connection with an up-and-coming officer named Bernard Montgomery. (Monty had married the widowed sister of one Percy Hobart, Hart's original bestie, and adopted his nephews.) If you're wondering who else might have been in charge of the British army in May of 1940, before he got the sack, in no small part at Hart's advice, look up one General Sir Hugh Elles, WWI era head of the Tank Corps, and by 1937 the second-highest-ranking member of the Army staff. Before Neville Chamberlain decided that the army wouldn't get a slice of the rearmament pie, and started looking for a good excuse to get rid of all the guys who were likely to say, "But we need it, because tanks LOL!" 

 

If you're wondering why I go from doctrine to gossip in the last paragraph, meditate on who wrote the history of World War II, and made sure that we remember 1940 as being all down to the Brits (and French) not being tank-curious enough.

 

'Cuz he had an agenda, is what I'm saying.

 

Just in case you're wondering

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This seems to be typical of French military operations throughout history--a base of highly motivated and effective soldiery consistently hamstrung by their own leadership and engineers.  That started as early as Crecy and continued all the way through Vietnam.

 

An over-generalisation.

 

Also, compared to who?

 

"Engineers", of course, reminds me of Jean Bureau, Vauban, and a certain Corsican artillery officer.

 

"Leadership" includes both political and military leaders, so that's Louis XIV, Turenne and "le Grand Condé" just in the mid-late 17th century alone. And Vauban was France's chief military engineer during the same period.

 

I could keep going, but the point is the excessive generalisation, not an encyclopedic list.

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I once played in a Danger Int campaign wherein lightly-armored agents and NPCs went up against each other with SMGs.  The campaign lasted approximately three phases.

 

Gaming the era might takes some tricks to run longer than that :) 

 

One could steal from Godlike RPG and allow players to create multiple characters, Troupe -style, or allow "some" superpowers that would keep the PCs alive longer. In a special forces commando -type game the focus could be on stealth and getting behind enemy lines and getting out quietly. The adventures might be more roleplaying oriented, with the threat of sudden violence looming in the background.

 

If one wanted to just run Godlike with Champions ruleset, other stuff could be stolen too, like the Will bidding wars between superpowered characters, where using more END to cancel out another characters power was an option, so supers would be toned down a bit when fighting each other.

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I'm just curious about the opening post.

Why would 8mm Mauser get 2 1/2d6 (German MG's) and .30-06 (US BAR) get 2d6+1 ?

They are almost equal in nearly every measurable quality, with the .30-06 actually generating more energy.

 

Granted, I drew up my own firearm charts long ago as I wasn't satisfied with what came with my game books.

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Granted, I drew up my own firearm charts long ago as I wasn't satisfied with what came with my game books.

Which due to the unusual amount of downtime tonight, I can pull up and put a part of it here...

 

90 ft-lb (.22 Short, .22 LR handgun, .25 ACP)  1/2d6K

 

120 ft-lb (.22LR, .32ACP) 1d6-1K

 

180 ft-lb (.38 Spl, .380ACP, 9mm Mak, 8mm Nambu) 1d6K

 

375 ft-lb (9mm Para, .40 S&W, .45 ACP, .45 LC) 1d6+1K

 

750 ft-lb (.22 Hornet, .357 Mag, .30 Carbine, .41 Mag) 1 1/2d6K*

 

1200 ft-lb (.223/5.56, .44Mag, ) 2d6-1K**

 

1500 ft-lb (.454 Cas, .50 AE, .243Win, .30-30 Win, .308 Win, .45-70) 2d6K***

 

3000 ft-lb (.30-06, 8mm Mauser ) 2d6+1K

 

6000 ft-lb (.460 W Mag, .600 Nitro) 2 1/2d6K

 

12000 ft-lb (.50 BMG, 12.7x108) 3d6K

 

25000 ft-lb (14.5x114) 3d6+1K

 

50000 ft-lb (20x110) 3 1/2d6K

 

 

* .410 shotgun

 

** 20 ga shotgun

 

*** 12 ga shotgun

 

Standard for birdshot damage.  Buckshot get +2DC vs RR.  Slugs get +2DC vs RR and no RP.

Which means that most shotshells with buckshot have the same damage at range as the standard rules, without making them (essentially) close range elephant guns.

 

The ft-lb marks are general amounts.  A round very close may get bumped up, but the amounts are for the most part the minimum to get that level of damage.  Each DC represents a doubling of the amount of energy in the round (approx).

 

Ok, sorry for the multiple edits.

Also, some handgun rounds - when used in a rifle - will get moved down the chart one DC.  Like .357 Mag &.44 Mag rifles.  For them, longer barrels help.  But rounds like the 9mm, not so much.

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...hopefully you're going to include the small arms, probably more important to PCs than all the heavy gear they're talking about now. =)

 

Lots of fascinating stuff, should also include some of the gear that was not adopted by the militaries but were interesting so that players can have something unique. I seem to remember that there was an additional rifle design that competed against the garand that had single side feed into the magazine and some other neat little options. I'm sure there's lots of examples of that somewhere that I am far too lazy to look up right now.

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...hopefully you're going to include the small arms, probably more important to PCs than all the heavy gear they're talking about now. =)

 

I will see what I can do.  We have a healthy number of weapons written up, but they are based on my damage and personal perception of how well they shoot in many cases (ok, my parents owned a gun club and I grew up shooting/still shoot competitively - so I am a 'gun nut'...)

 

The most subjective thing is going to be the OCV/RMod that you tack on them.  And in reality, weapons are very individual even when you have the exact same model.  I have shot 98k Mausers that will hold an inch at 100 yds all day long with the right loads.  And I have shot some that have a problem keeping a bullet in a pie tin at 50 yds.

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Warning,  Major wall post ahead.

 

 

In the hopes of not reinventing the wheel, I will start with a bunch of weapons from the French in WWII.  I expect that it wouldn't be hard to find examples of weapons for the US, English, German, and Soviet militaries that have already been done.  But a game set in France based around the resistance, or even during the 1940 German invasion of France would benefit from some of these.

 

 

The entries are given as the name of the weapon (date of acceptance/issue), as short description, followed by the stats for the game. Weapons listed with a +1 on the shots indicates that a round may be held in the chamber in addition to those held in the magazine. This list is in no way a complete compilation of all the small arms in use by the French military at the beginning of WWII and gives only the more common weapons.

 

 

I only own the 4th Ed of the game, and these are based on those rules. The game stats are my interpretations of how these weapons would perform in the Hero System.  Str Min for these weapons do not follow what would be calculated from the standard rules and are my perceptions only.  Feel free to change them if you do not agree.  The same can be said of any weapon stats other than the number of rounds held and the weight.  Most French automatic weapons were regulated to fire at 450 rounds per minute, which would be between AF7 and AF8.

 

 

Sadly, I have no idea how to embed pics of these weapon. You will either have to look them up or wait for someone to (perhaps) post images of these weapons. But there is a nice pic of the Mod 1924 M29 LMG at the bottom of the previous page.

 

 

French Military Sidearms

 

 

⦁ MAS Pistolet-Revolveur Modele 1892 (1892)

 

A swing out cylinder revolver, where the cylinder swung out to the right.  Widely known as the Lebel, although M. Lebel had nothing to do with the design.  Obsolete, but still in use during WWII.

 

 

MAS Modele 1892, 8x27mmR Lebel

 

+0 OCV, +0 RMod, 1d6K, Str Min 7, Shots 6, Wt 0.9

 

 

⦁ Astra Pistolet Automatique Modele 21 (1921)

 

A Spanish pistol used in number by the French military.  It could chamber and fire many types of 9mm handgun ammuntion to include the 9mm Bergman-Baynard, 9mm Browning Long, 9mm Glisenti, 9mm Parabellum, 9mm Steyr, and .38 Super Auto (which could be of use to a partisan with no reliable source of ammunition). Stats given are the same regardless of ammo used for simplicity.

 

 

Astra Modele 21, 9mm Bergman-Baynard

 

+0 OCV, +0 RMod, 1d6+1K, Str Min 7, Shots 8+1, Wt 1.0

 

 

⦁ Gabilondo Pistolet Automatique Ruby (1915)

 

A Spanish pistol modeled after the FN Browning Model 1910 and in common use by the French during WWII.

 

 

Gabilondo Ruby, .32 ACP (aka 7.65x17mmSR)

 

+0 OCV, +0 RMod, 1d6-1K, Str Min 6, Shots 9+1, Wt 0.7

 

 

⦁ MAB Pistolet Automatique D (1935)

 

Copy of the FN Browning Model 1922.  While not adopted by the French military, it was in wide use by both the military and police, and was reissued by the German occupation forces.

 

 

MAB D, .32 ACP

 

+0 OCV, +0 RMod, 1d6-1K, Str Min 6, Shots 9+1, Wt 0.9

 

 

⦁ MAS Pistolet Automatique Modele 35A (1938)

 

Standard French handgun adopted shortly before the start of WWII.  Many were captured by the Germans who issued it as the P625(f).

 

 

MAS 35A, 7.65x20mm Long (MAS)

 

+0 OCV, +0 RMod, 1d6K, Str Min 7, Shots 8+1, Wt 0.9

 

 

French Military Rifles

 

 

⦁ Lebel-Berthier Mousqueton 1886 (1887)

 

A bolt action rifle with the distinction of being the first chambered for a smokeless propellant cartridge.  It carried 8 rounds in a tubular magazine below the barrel, one in the carrier between the magazine and barrel, and could hold one last round in the chamber.  Although slow to reload, difficult to use sights, and obsolete, it was still in front line service at the start of WWII.  It could also fit the adapter to fire the V-B Rifle Grenade.

 

The Germans issued the rifle as the Gewehr 301(f) to some occupation troops.

 

 

Lebel-Berthier Mousqueton 1886, 8x50mmR Lebel

 

+1 OCV, +1 RMod, 2d6K, +1StunX, Str Min 11, Shots 8+2, Wt 4.4

 

 

⦁ Fusil Automatique Modele 1917 RSC (1917)

 

A few other models of semi-automatic rifles were produced by the French, but in small numbers (generally 4000 or less).  The Modele 1917 was produced for use during WWI and production neared 90,000 weapons.  It also shared many parts with the standard Lebel rifle which aided maintenance and production. Even with this, it saw very limited use during WWII.  It was a gas operated rifle with an en-block 5 rd clip that no other French weapon shared.  It was also unreliable if not cleaned regularly (d/t the small gas port) and had problems with the clips used.  It would not be inappropriate for dirty or abused M1917 RSC's to be given an Activation roll of 14- (bolt failed to cycle full after last shot or clip failure caused a mis-feed).

 

 

Fusil Automatique Modele 1917 RSC, 8x50mmR Lebel

 

+1 OCV, +1 RMod, 2d6K, +1StunX, Str Min 12, Shots 5, Wt 4.7 (Act 14-)

 

 

⦁ Lebel-Berthier Fusil Modele 07/15 M34 (1934)

 

Last issue weapon based on the Lebel-Berthier Mod 1886 bolt action.  It used Mauser style 5 rd stripper clips.  Although replaced by the MAS Modele 36, it was still in service as were several earlier models.

 

 

Lebel-Berthier Modele 07/15 M34, 7.5x54mm MAS

 

+1 OCV, +2 RMod, 2d6K, +1StunX, Str Min 10, Shots 5+1, Wt 3.8

 

 

⦁ MAS Modele 36 (1936)

 

Intended to replace the Lebel and Berthier series of rifles, not enough were completed to replace the other arms in French military service before the start of WWII.  It used the same clips as the M34 and was considered an ugly but reliable and was the length of many contemporary carbines (about 40").  Like most French rifles of the period, it had no manual safety.  It had a spike bayonet in a tube below the barrel (full phase to emplace, 1d6+1K, Str Min 8, -1 RMod when in place). These rifles were also taken into German service following the fall of France and designated Gewehr 242(f).

 

 

MAS Modele 36, 7.5x54mm MAS

 

+1 OCV, +2 RMod, 2d6K, +1StunX Str Min 10, Shots 5+1, Wt 3.7

 

 

French Military Submachine Gun

 

 

⦁ Pistolet Mitrailleur MAS Modele 38 (1939)

 

The standard French SMG at the start of WWII was the US M1928A1 Thompson, known as the Modele 39.  The Modele 38 was a French design that entered use just before the start of the war.  It was used by the Germans following the occupation of France as the MP722(f).  Some users complained of the low powered round used by the weapon.

 

Of note, it was the weapon used by partisans to shoot the Italian leader Benito Mussolini on April 28th, 1945.

 

 

MAS Modele 38, 7.65x20mm Long

 

+1 OCV, +0 RMod, 1d6K, AF10. Str Min 7/12, Shots 32, Wt 3.5

 

 

French Military Machine Guns

 

 

⦁ Fusil Mitrailleur Modele 1924 M29 (1929)

 

This was the standard LMG of the French military during WWII.  It used 25 round top mounted magazines and had two triggers - one for automatic fire and the other for semi-automatic fire.  A folding bipod was attached to the weapon.

 

An earlier version, fielded in 1925, could chamber the German 7.92x57mm ammunition, but would blow up if fired with it (treat as a 1/2d6K Exp).  These weapons were later rebarreled to prevent this.

 

 

FM Modele 1924/29, 7.5x54mm MAS

 

+1 OCV, +2 RMod, 2d6K, +1 StunX, AF 8, Str Min 10(bipid)/15, Shots 25+1, Wt 8.9

 

 

⦁ Hotchkiss Mitrailleuse Modele 14 (1914)

 

This was the French air cooled MMG.  It was a tripod mounted weapon that fired from 24 round strips that were fed into the receiver from one side and fell out the other.  A 250 round belt was also available but used mainly in tanks as the strips proved difficult for a single operator to load while maintaining effective fire.  It was generally employed by a 3 man crew.

 

 

Hotchkiss Modele 14 MMG, 8x50mmR Lebel

 

+1 OCV, +2 RMod, 2d6K, +1 StunX, AF 8, Str Min -, Shots 24 (250), Wt 53 with tripod

 

 

⦁ Hotchkiss Mitrailleuse Modele 30 (1931)

 

The Modele 30 was the standard French HMG.  It was essentially a Modele 14 scaled up in size to fire the 13.2x99mm round.  It was generally used as a naval anti-aircraft round or on armored vehicles.  It used 20 round strips, 30 round magazines, or 100 round belts.

 

 

+1 OCV, +3 RMod, 3d6K, +1StunX, AF 8, Str Min -, Shots 20 (or more), Wt 80.5 with tripod

 

 

French Military Hand Grenades

 

 

⦁ Grenade Modele 15 F1 (1915)

 

Designed for WWI, copies were adopted by several nations (Russian F1 and US Mk II). It was the distinctive 'pineapple grenade' that many think of.  Originally an impact fused grenade when first produced, by WWII it incorporated a time delay fuse to prevent premature detonations.

 

 

+0 OCV, +0 RMod, 1d6+1K, Exp, Range by Str, Shots 1, Wt 0.5, (delayed effect 4 segments)

 

 

 

⦁ Grenade a Main Defensive Modele 37 (1937)

 

The standard French fragmentation grenade intended to replace the F1.  The F1 was still available in large numbers and employed.

 

 

+0 OCV, +0 RMod, 1 1/2d6K, Exp, Range by Str, Shots 1, Wt 0.5, (delayed effect 4 segments)

 

 

⦁ Grenade a Main Offensive Modele 37 (1937)

 

A concussion grenade painted gray to avoid confusion as it was otherwise nearly identical to the fragmentation model which was normally painted red.

 

 

+0 OCV, +0 RMod, 5d6N, Exp, Range by Str, Shots 1, Wt 0.3, (delayed effect 4 segments)

 

 

(As a note, for those characters who hold their action to reduce the time on the fuse when thrown, an Unluck roll could be made to ensure that a faulty fuse was not a problem...)

 

 

French Military Rifle Grenade

 

 

⦁ V-B Grenade

 

The V-B Grenade (named for its designers Vivien & Bessieres) was fired from a standard service rifle with the use of an adapter and a standard 8mm cartridge.  It was armed by the bullet striking a plate in the grenade and had an 8 second delay fuse.  It could be fired from the shoulder, but was often employed with the butt of the rifle braced on the ground due to the heavy recoil (treat as -2 OCV but reduces Str Min by 5).  The rifle takes an additional -1 RMod for standard fire with the adapter in place.

 

These statistics give the grenade a range of 100", which was the farthest it could be expected to travel.  For those interested, the grenade would travel approx 25" a segment to reach it's target and could be designed in such a way - allowing it to be intercepted in flight and the fuse delay to be shorter when it reaches the target - but I have not done so.

 

 

Adapter statistics

 

+0 OCV, -2 RMod, Str 120 for throwing grenade, x2 Max Range, Str Min 13. Shots 1, Wt 0.2

 

V-B Grenade

 

2 1/2d6K, Exp, Wt 0.8, (delayed effect 8 segments)

 

 

French Infantry Organization

 

 

As a gross simplification, here is an example of French infantry unit organization up to the company level at the outset of WWII.  I think it has been covered in some detail above, but here is a recap for those that might actually be interested in trying to run a game that involves French forces in combat.

 

 

The base infantry unit was a squad consisting of the leader and 11 men in two elements.  The first group was the demi-groupe de voltigeur (shock group) and the other was the demi-groupe de fusiliers (fire group).  The voltigeurs consisted of 4 men armed with rifles and a grenadier armed with a rifle and rifle grenades.  The fusiliers were generally led by a caporal (corporal) armed with a rifle, a LMG gunner (usually FM Mod 24/29), the LMG assistant gunner/loader with a pistol and extra ammo for the LMG, and three ammo carriers armed with rifles and extra ammo (both 8mm & 7.5mm) for the unit.

 

 

Platoons were made up of a command squad (Officer, NCO, signal operator, & observer/runner) and three infantry squads.  Some also included a special grenade launcher squad - but equipment and training shortages made this uncommon.

 

 

Companies generally consisted of a command platoon, three infantry platoons, and a mortar squad (usually 60mm Brandt Mle 1935)

 

 

Additional notes

 

 

This list includes common weapons in use by the French at the start of WWII, but the French had a distressing habit of employing many weapons that were non-standard.  Free French forces fighting in Africa or during the invasion of Europe following D Day may be found using these weapons or equipment gained from the British or US.  Partisans operating in France during the German/Vichy occupation could be found using any weapon they could aquire.

 

 

And again, these are just my interpretations of how these weapons would be written up in the 4th Ed Hero rules.  Feel free to alter/bend/fold/mutilate/etc - however you would care to suit them to your games.

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Are you sure you aren't thinking of the Krag-Jorgenson? That used a single side feed magazine, but it predated the Garand.

 

 

The johnson rifle and LMG were interesting.   Apparently worked better than I would have guessed a recoil operated rifle would work. 

 

Okay, I'm going off memory and images and a brief search, and I believe it was the Johnson rifle I was referring to. I only read about it in a magazine, if I remember right, and I remember thinking it was a neat idea and wondered about it briefly. I believe this is an image of it:

11027273_1.jpg?v=8CE3D17303DFE90

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 Penetration of 160mm. Hmm. 4d+1 AP KA?

Is there some rule of thumb on penetration vs DC's of damage out there?  Or just a 'how it feels to you' sort of thing.

Just curious.

 

For our games it would get 5d6+1K AP.

What seems to be missing from a lot of the shaped charge weapons in the rules - is the secondary blast from the warhead.

The Panzerschreck would have a linked 8d6 EB Explosion in our game.  A lot of the detonation energy is not used in penetrating the target.

So when you shoot the weapon at a tank with troops riding on the top of it (fairly common), you aren't going to just damage the tank when the better part of a pound of explosives goes off.

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For simplicity's sake, really you can reduce weapons to categories and give them differences only in things like ammo load.  There's not that huge a difference between a .40 and a .45 caliber handgun, for instance; not enough to justify a full writeup.

Mostly, this would be correct.  Although there would be exceptions.

 

If you are talking .40 S&W v .45 ACP - in the game they would look the same.

But if you are talking about .41 rimfire (actually a .40 cal round) out of a tiny derringer v the .454 Casull out of a 14" barrel - then the difference is worth several DC of damage to me.

 

For the most part though, descriptions of guns for the game have more to do with the 'flavor' you are wanting.  Just like a 10d6 EB lightning bolt is essentially the same as a 10d6 EB firebolt in game, but it can be a big deal for the person imagining it.

 

I started putting together a list of Italian weapons from WWII as I doubt they get much more coverage than the French, but work has gotten busy of late.  If anyone is interested I will see if I can finish them up before the weekend is out.

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That would be cool if you can. All I know about WW2 Italian weapons is "Lousy Rifle, good SMG" lol

Sadly, 'Lousy Rifle' was still good enough to kill off a president...

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Here is a start on the Italian weapons.

(Been a busy weekend here at the hospital...)

 

Italian Military Sidearms

 

  • Glisenti Pistola a Rotazione (Bodeo) Modello 1889 (1891)

 

An obsolete revolver using black powder cartridges, it was intended to be replaced by the Glisenti Mod 10, but still was in use during WWII.  It used a loading gate and ejector rod that only ejected one empty at a time, requiring each chamber to be unloaded and loaded separately and making reloading very slow (extra phase)

 

Glisenti Pistola a Rotazione Modello 1889, 10.35x20mmR

 

+0 OCV, +0 RMod, 1d6K, Str Min 8, Shots 6, Wt 1.1

 

  • Glisenti-Brixia Pistola Modello 1910 (1910)

 

This pistol which resembles the German Luger was intended to replace the Mod 1889 Revolver.  It was chambered for the 9mm Glisenti which is essentially a reduced velocity 9mm Parabellum, as the weak blowback action could not handle the higher velocity ammunition.  It can fire 9mm Parabellum but will have a Burnout roll of 9- when using this ammo.

 

Glisenti-Brixia Pistola Modello 1910, 9mm Glisenti

 

+0 OCV, +0 RMod, 1d6K, Str Min 7, Shots 7+1, Wt 0.8

 

  • Beretta Pistola Modello 1934 (1934)

 

A reliable and durable pistol manufactured for the Italian Military.  One was used in the 1948 assassination of Mahatma Gandhi..

 

Beretta Pistola Modello 1934, 9x17mm Corto (aka .380 ACP)

 

+0 OCV, +0 RMod, 1d6K, Str Min 7, Shots 7+1, Wt 0.7

 

  • Beretta Pistola Modello 1935 (1935)

 

This is simply the M1934 modified to shoot the .32 ACP.  It was mainly issued to Air Force and police forces.  A similar handgun, the Modello 1931 was in use by the Navy.

 

Beretta Pistola Modello 1935, .32 ACP

 

+0 OCV, +0 RMod, 1d6-1K, Str Min 6, Shots 8+1, Wt 0.7

 

 

Italian Military Rifles

 

  • Vetterli-Vitali Fucile Modello 1870/87 (1887)

 

A bolt action rifle converted from a single shot black powder rifle to a box magazine fed weapon using smokeless propellant. It was obsolete by the start of WWII, but was carried by a number of native troops serving in East Africa. Some were converted to fire the 6.5x52mm round (increase damage to 2d6-1K with Act 14-).

 

Vetterli-Vitali Fucile Modello 1870/87 , 10.4x47mmR

 

+1 OCV, +1 RMod, 1 1/2d6K, +1StunX, Str Min 10, Shots 3+1, Wt 4.6

 

  • Mannlicher-Carcano Fucile Modello 1891 (1891)

 

The standard rifle of the Italian Army in both WWI and WWII.  It was produced in a number of variants as both a rifle (fucile) and carbin (moschetto) but in game terms they all have identical statistics.  A Mod 91/38 was used in the assassination of President J. F. Kennedy in 1963.

 

Mannlicher-Carcano Fucile Modello 1891, 6.5x52mm Carcano

 

+1 OCV, +2 RMod, 2d6-1K, +1StunX, Str Min 10, Shots 5+1, Wt 3.9

 

  • Steyr-Solothurn Fucile Controcarro S Modello 36 (1940)

 

This weapon was called the S18-1000 by the Swiss manufacturer an was purchased by the Italians for use as an anti-tank rifle.  It was a semi-automatic weapon that fired from a bipod & monopod or a 50kg two wheel carriage.  It was fed from a 10 round magazine inserted from the left side, but it could use the 20 round magazines from an anti-aircraft cannon. It had punishing recoil to fire. The Str Min is given for fire without the supports/fire from the bipod & monopod/fire from the carriage.

 

Steyr-Solothurn Fucile Controcarro S Modello 36, 20x138mmB Solothurn Long

 

+1 OCV, +3 RMod, 3 1/2d6K, +1StunX, Str Min 23/18/-, Shots 10+1, Wt 53.5

 

 

Italian Military Submachine Guns

 

  • Moschetto Automatico Beretta Modello 1938 (1938)

 

Considered by some the most effective Italian weapon of WWII, this submachine gun was chambered for the Mod 38A round, which is a slightly more powerful version of the 9mm Parabellum.  It can fire standard 9mm Parabellum rounds and both are treated as equal in game terms.  The Mod 38 has two triggers, one for semi automatic fire and one for fully automatic fire.  It was adopted by the Germans as the MP.738 and was produced in several variants until the 1960's.  It could use a 10, 20, 30, or 40 round magazine.

 

Moschetto Automatico Beretta Modello 1938, Mod 38A 9x19mm

 

+1 OCV, +1 RMod, 1d6+1K, AF10. Str Min 7/12, Shots 10+, Wt 3.3

 

  • FNA-B Moshetto Automatica Mod 43 (1944)

 

Intended to supplement the issue of the Modello 38, the Mod 43 was still an expensive weapon to manufacture and was made in limited numbers.  It had a folding stock and was mostly used by the RSI. It could use a 20 or 40 round magazine.

 

FNA-B Moshetto Automatica Mod 43, 9x19mm Parabellum

 

+1 OCV, +0 RMod, 1d6+1K, AF7. Str Min 7/12, Shots 20 or 40, Wt 3.2

 

  • FAI-TZ Moshetto Automatica Mod 45 (1944)

 

This was a crude submachine gun produced in limited numbers for RSI troops at the close of WWII, it was noted for a very reliable double safety that was copied by later SMGs.

 

FAI-TZ Moshetto Automatica Mod 45, 9x19mm Parabellum

 

+0 OCV, +0 RMod, 1d6+1K, AF13. Str Min 7/12, Shots 40, Act 13-, Wt 3.2

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Firebird put out a book of guns with Hero stats in it called The Armory, Volume 1 (Kevin Dockery) that had zillions of guns with key information and pictures.  Even had grenades, etc.  Its packed with useful info.  I don't know if a volume 2 ever came out.

 

31qmd3WYOXL._SL500_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

 

This book has pretty much every gun that has been made since the mid 19th century up to around 1980 or so.  Some very strange weapons in there.

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