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Looking for iconic Crusader and Starburst from BBB


DJWebb2

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ALCON,

 

I don't have my Big Blue any more - but if I recall correctly aren't Crusader and Starburst in the back as example MA & EB? If so does anyone have a copy of mechanics or 6e conversions for them?  I know - why bother right? I'm just going through an old school plot I was in way back in the day and I wanted to include these two.

 

Any and all help would be appreciated.

 

Thanks,

Dave

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I'll get them built here in a bit just out of nostalgia.

 

OK first, Crusader.  He's a bit of a nut job, almost crazed.  I toned down his "berserk" into an enraged, so he's not so unstable but he's still a bit unhinged.  His stats are really gaudy because that was kind of common back in 4th edition, but I kept him as exact as I could.  Plus, since Find Weakness and Missile Deflection went bye-bye, I had to build equivalents of both effects for 6th edition

 

Crusader
 
Val Char Cost
 20  STR   10       Lift: 800kg   Damage: 4d6
 28  DEX   36
 20  CON  10
 12  BOD    2
 18  INT      8       Perception Roll: 13-
 11  EGO   1 
 18  PRE    8       Presence Attack: 3 1/2d6
 15  PD     13       With Shield Deflect: 20 PD; 5 rPD
 11  ED      9        With Shield Deflect: 16 ED; 5 rED
  6 SPD    40
 12 REC     8
 40 END     4
 33 STN     7
 
14m RUN   2
4m   SWIM 0
8m   LEAP 2
Characteristics Cost: 226
 
Cost Power
  4     Shield: Resistant Protection (5 PD/5 ED) (15 Active Points); OAF (Shield; -1), Requires A Roll (Block roll; Must be made each Phase/use; -1), Only vs attacks Crusader is aware of (-1/2)
  7      Glider Cape: Flight 18m (18 Active Points); Gliding (-1), OIF (Costume; -1/2)
  4      Find Weakness: Armor Piercing on Punch Martial Art (7 Active Points); Requires A Roll (12- roll; Must be made each Phase/use; -3/4)
Powers Cost: 15
 
Cost  Martial Arts Maneuver
  4     Chop:  1/2 Phase, -2 OCV, +0 DCV, HKA 2d6
  4     Disarm:  1/2 Phase, -1 OCV, +1 DCV, Disarm; 30 STR to Disarm
  5     Kick:  1/2 Phase, -2 OCV, +1 DCV, 8d6 Strike
  4     Punch:  1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +2 DCV, 6d6 Strike
Martial Arts Cost: 17
 
Cost Skill
  3     Acrobatics 15-
  3     Breakfall 15-
 24    +3 with HTH Combat
  6     +3 with block maneuvers using shield
  3     Criminology 13-
  3     Deduction 13-
  2     KS: Organized Crime 11-
  3     CK: Home City 12-
  3     Shadowing 13-
  3     Stealth 15-
  3     Streetwise 13-
Skills Cost: 56
 
 
Cost Talent
  3     +1/+1d6 Striking Appearance (vs. all characters)
Talents Cost: 3
 
Total Character Cost: 317
 
Pts.  Complication
 20   Dependent NPC:  Sally Robinson - girlfriend Frequently (Incompetent; Useful Noncombat Position or Skills; Unaware of character's adventuring career/Secret ID)
 20   Enraged:  If people killed (Uncommon), go 14-, recover 11-
 15   Hunted:  CIA Infrequently (Mo Pow; NCI; Mildly Punish)
 20   Hunted:  Viper Infrequently (Mo Pow; NCI; Harshly Punish)
 10   Negative Reputation:  Vigilante, Frequently
 20   Psychological Complication:  Code vs Killing (Common; Total)
 15   Psychological Complication:  Distrust of Authorities (Common; Strong)
 15   Psychological Complication:  Hatred of Killing Attacks (Common; Strong)
 10   Psychological Complication:  Hatred of Criminals (Uncommon; Strong)
 15   Social Complication:  Secret Identity Frequently, Major
Complication Points: 160
 
ks4gg.jpg
 
And of course the HD file

Crusader.hdc

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And Starburst.  A little quicker and easier build, although his vulnerabilities make him basically toast in any street fight.  Certainly not a build I'd do.  Nothing tricky about his abilities, except his Force Field.  Because of the active cost I had to slash his FF down from 25/25 to 15/17 to fit it in the Multipower, then put a non-multipower forcefield outside it that's linked to the one inside.  Yes, its cheezy and I'd never allow it with my campaign, but it gave him the full defenses he's supposed to have, and it also gives him the advantage of having some decent defenses without the FF on full power in his multipower.

Plus, I had to muddle about with his Reputations.  In the 4th edition build he had an 11- reputation "superhero" which is neither negative or really significant.  So I played on his publicity seeking by giving him a positive rep so people would point and cry out his name (as a result of his efforts to be known) and media would scoff at him for being such a camera hound.

 

Again, a bit gaudy in the stats, as was the norm back then.  

 

Starburst
 
Val Char Cost
 15  STR   5        Weight: 200kg  Damage: 3d6
 23  DEX  26
 25  CON 15
 10  BOD  0
 10  INT    0         Perception Roll: 11-
 11  EGO 1
 15  PRE  5         Presence Attack: 3d6
 10  PD    8         With Force Field: 35 PD; 25 rPD
 15  ED   13        With Force Field: 40 ED; 25 rED
  5   SPD 30
  9   REC  5
 60  END  8
 31  STN  6
 
12m RUN   0
4m   SWIM 0
6m   LEAP 1
Characteristics Cost: 166
 
Cost Power
  5     Star Sight: Infrared Perception (Sight Group)
  6     Star Vision: +4 versus Range Modifier for Sight Group
 
 50    Starburst Powers: Multipower, 50-point reserve
 10v  1)  Star Blast: Blast 10d6 (50 Active Points)
 6v    2)  Star Field: Resistant Protection (15 PD/17 ED) (48 Active Points); Costs Endurance (Only Costs END to Activate; -1/4)
 10v  3)  Star Soaring: Flight 40m, Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4) (50 Active Points)
 
 13    Star Burst: Sight Group Flash 4d6 (20 Active Points); Linked (Star Blast; -1/2)
 13    Force Field:  Resistant Protection (10 PD/8 ED) (27 Active Points); Linked (Star Field; -1/2), Costs Endurance (Only Costs END to Activate; -1/4)
Powers Cost: 113
 
Cost Skill
  2     +1 OCV with Energy Blast
  3     Computer Programming 11-
  3     Scientist
  1      1)  Science Skill:  Computer Science 11- (2 Active Points)
  1      2)  Science Skill:  Mathematics 11- (2 Active Points)
  1      3)  Science Skill:  Nuclear Physics 11- (2 Active Points)
  1      4)  Science Skill:  Physics 11- (2 Active Points)
Skills Cost: 12
 
Cost Perk
  2     Positive Reputation:  Famous Superhero (A large group) 11-, +1/+1d6
Perks Cost: 2
 
Total Character Cost: 293
 
Pts. Complication
 10   Hunted:  Pulsar Infrequently (As Pow; Harshly Punish)
  5    Negative Reputation:  Publicity Hound, Frequently (Known Only To A Small Group -  reporters and media)
 15   Psychological Complication:  Publicity Seeker, lives on media attention (Common; Strong)
 10   Psychological Complication:  Underconfident, insecury (Common; Moderate)
 15   Psychological Complication:  Scientific Curiosity (Common; Strong)
  5    Rivalry:  Professional (Co-Worker; Rival is As Powerful; Seek to Outdo, Embarrass, or Humiliate Rival; Rival Aware of Rivalry)
 15   Social Complication:  Secret Identity Frequently, Major
 25   Susceptibility:  Darkness Fields 3d6 damage per Phase (Uncommon)
 20   Vulnerability:  2 x STUN HKAs (Common)
 20   Vulnerability:  2 x BODY HKAs (Common)
 10   Vulnerability:  2 x STUN Darkness Attacks (Uncommon)
Complication Points: 150
 
vmq2c1.jpg
and of course the HD file again

Starburst.hdc

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I'll get them built here in a bit just out of nostalgia.His stats are really gaudy because that was kind of common back in 4th edition, but I kept him as exact as I could.

 
Crusader

10629639_879165742101147_512840502468158
 

 

 

Again, a bit gaudy in the stats, as was the norm back then.  

 

Starburst
 
10440710_879195228764865_619566035569576

 

First, Good Job on the conversions and coloring the pics.

 

Second, what do you mean by their stats are "gaudy?"

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First, Good Job on the conversions and coloring the pics.

 

Second, what do you mean by their stats are "gaudy?"

 

 

Earlier editions had a tendency to give characters superhuman or near-superhuman characteristics when there was no real reason for them and they didn't fit the origin or character concept.

 

Rainbow Archer, anyone?

For those not familiar with her, she was essentially a villainous Green Arrow.  She was a normal human with a bow and trick arrows...and a 35 DEX.

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Earlier editions had a tendency to give characters superhuman or near-superhuman characteristics when there was no real reason for them and they didn't fit the origin or character concept.

 

Rainbow Archer, anyone?

For those not familiar with her, she was essentially a villainous Green Arrow.  She was a normal human with a bow and trick arrows...and a 35 DEX.

 

Thank You for the explanation.  To be fair, it kinda-sorta made sense back in those days before skill levels and damage classes, when Martial Arts cost as much as your Strength and only allowed you to do extra damage.  Players wanted their characters to  be able to put down a street-level thug before he had a chance to blurt out "Wait! I surrender!"  Can't really do that with an OCV of 5 or 6.

 

Not really defending the practice, but I can understand why it happened.  Hope that helps.

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Armor Piercing isn't quite the same as Find Weakness since it can't be used repeatedly to cumulatively halve a target's defenses. Why was FW removed from the game?

 

Presumably because it could be and was used repeatedly to reduce the target's defense to ⅛ what it would be normally (or lower).

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There's the variant Armor Piercing from the Advanced Player's Guide.

+1/4 for 1/2 defenses.

+3/4 for 1/4.

+1 1/2 for 1/8.

 

The trick is building it so that it only affects a single target, only applies one level per attempt, and requires a roll for each level.

I think I remember DCV bought with Only Against A Single Opponent in one of the books, but I can't remember where.  Let's call it -1 for now.

 

Let's see...

 

Find Weakness I:  Armor Piercing (+1/4) for Martial Punch, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Time Limit (1 Battle; +3/4) (16 Active Points); Only Against A Single Target (-1), Requires A Roll (Skill roll; -1/2), Extra Time (Half Phase, Only to Activate, -1/4).  Total cost 6 points.

plus

Find Weakness II:  Armor Piercing (1/4 Defenses) (+1/2) for Martial Punch, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Time Limit (1 Battle; +3/4) (34 Active Points); Only Against A Single Target (-1), Requires A Roll (Skill roll; -1/2), Only Against Target Affected By Find Weakness I (-1/2), Extra Time (Half Phase, Only to Activate, -1/4).  Total cost: 10 points.

plus

Find Weakness III:  Armor Piercing (1/8 Defenses) (+3/4) for Martial Punch, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Time Limit (1 Battle; +3/4) (49 Active Points); Only Against A Single Target (-1), Requires A Roll (Skill roll; -1/2), Only Against Target Affected By Find Weakness II (-1/2), Extra Time (Half Phase, Only to Activate, -1/4).  Total cost 15 points.

 

Total cost: 31 points.

 

The character spends a Half Phase and makes a Skill roll at -2.  If successful, a single target's defenses are halved against one attack for the duration of the battle.  A Half Phase and a second Skill roll at -3 quarters the defenses.  A Half Phase and another Skill roll at -5 eighths the defenses.  This doesn't quite match the Base roll, -2, and -4 of the original Find Weakness.

If you change Requires a Skill Roll to -1 per 20 Active Points, the power is 33 points and the rolls are -1, -2, and -2.

If a roll fails, it can be retried according to the normal rules for retrying skills, most likely by taking more time, which probably wouldn't be practical in combat.

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A lot of it had to do with figured characteristics too. Starburst has 25 Con, Crusader 28 DEX. That was done because those stats gave you lots of bonuses more than character design or logic.

As far as I can tell, 3rd ed had the strength chart but no other Iindicators as to where heroic stopped and super characteristics started. 4th brought in from previous sipplements characteristic maxima and its subsequent confusion. Some read maxima (such as I) that that was the ceiling of heroic level/normal human but really Iit only meant that after a certain point you paid double points. It was fifth edition that had a chart that clearly defined normal/super human levels.

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Thank You for the explanation.  To be fair, it kinda-sorta made sense back in those days before skill levels and damage classes, when Martial Arts cost as much as your Strength and only allowed you to do extra damage.  Players wanted their characters to  be able to put down a street-level thug before he had a chance to blurt out "Wait! I surrender!"  Can't really do that with an OCV of 5 or 6.

 

Not really defending the practice, but I can understand why it happened.  Hope that helps.

 

 

A lot of it had to do with figured characteristics too.  Starburst has 25 Con, Crusader 28 DEX.  That was done because those stats gave you lots of bonuses more than character design or logic.

 

To me, a lot of it has to do with the history of Hero System.  The very first Champions indicated a normal person had 10's (not 8's) across the board.  It then provided "slow" Bricks with an 18 DEX and 4 SPD, agents with 3 SPD and 12-14 DEX, average Supers with 23 DEX and 5 SPD, and fast Supers with 30 DEX and 6 SPD.

 

Those initial benchmarks flowed into every later edition, largely for reverse compatibility.  By the time "Normal Humans" were established to largely cap out at 20 (that wasn't a max - stats above that level were just much more rare), it was far too late to change the standards.  If Champions (First Ed) had statted out a Brick with 8 DEX and 2 SPD, a typical Super with 12 - 15 DEX  and 3 SPD, and Martial Artists with DEX 20 and SPD 4, DEX 30 and SPD 6 would seem like the Fastest Man Alive, instead of the minimum to be taken seriously as superhumanly agile, and not even unusually fast.

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As far as I can tell, 3rd ed had the strength chart but no other Iindicators as to where heroic stopped and super characteristics started. 4th brought in from previous sipplements characteristic maxima and its subsequent confusion. Some read maxima (such as I) that that was the ceiling of heroic level/normal human but really Iit only meant that after a certain point you paid double points. It was fifth edition that had a chart that clearly defined normal/super human levels.

 

Some people still seem to think that is the case.

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In one of the Enemies Books they said that Starburst married Icicle, who is Crusader's cousin.  They has a child with rapid aging syndrome and he was looking for his parents who were missing, and was undercover as a villain.  His uncle Crusader was the only one who knew he wasn't a villain, but was killed off in one of the Dark Champions books.

 

Sounds like plots from the Hero Cinematic Universe.  

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To me, a lot of it has to do with the history of Hero System. The very first Champions indicated a normal person had 10's (not 8's) across the board. It then provided "slow" Bricks with an 18 DEX and 4 SPD, agents with 3 SPD and 12-14 DEX, average Supers with 23 DEX and 5 SPD, and fast Supers with 30 DEX and 6 SPD.

 

 

I have to ask, has anyone ran any characters built like this? Did you still get the super hero feeling? It could be one of those things that onnpaper sounds like a good idea but when in play and the dice are rolling, not so much.

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I agree completely with Christopher. Those Characteristic levels quoted for earlier editions is what I am used to and nobody that I played with ever felt non-superheroic (except maybe for Endurance depletion). I am quite frankly puzzled by the point inflation that has creeped into the game in the last two editions. Back in the 2nd edition era, having a Speed higher than 6 was often undesirable because End costs for everything were twice as high and your character would be completely winded before the first post-segment 12 Recovery came around. And yet, when End costs were cut in half for 4th edition, people didn't suddenly build characters with 8 Speed. Instead they kept 2nd ed-scale builds and enjoyed the wonders of fighting at full power for more than a single Turn.

 

The change to baseline Endurance costs (which included the simpler +1/2, +1 Reduced Endurance schema) was probably the single most significant (and most welcome) change made by the 4th ed rules. Everything else ever done to the system is small potatoes by comparison, at least in my view. Any system changes that have since created the need for 400-pt starting superheroes with 28 Dexes and 7 Speeds are highly dubious to me.

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