Creating 5e Transformers: Multiform or Perk?

[Shanoa Ravendare]

So my friends and I are putting together a Transformers themed game using 5e rules and there's been some debate at the table on which is the better way to build a Transformer's ability to change between robot mode and vehicle mode.

 

I'm still fairly new to the system and my interpretation of Multiform is that you can't use it for a vehicle form so I suggested using the Vehicle Perk instead. Not too many folks at the table have experience with building vehicles though so they're leaning toward using Multiform.  There are good arguments for both sides, but I'm not sure which is really the "correct" way to do this by the rules.  Whichever method we wind up using we're going to knock the cost down to 0 points since it is an intrinsic part of how these beings work, so it doesn't really matter which way costs more.

[Christougher]

Examine the functional difference between their robot mode and their alternate/vehicle mode - how much different is it?

 

Loss of hands, altered movement, weapons - maybe?  Not much difference, so it should be cheap.

 

Save the expensive multiform for those whose capabilities really change.  For the others, a Shapeshift to one altered form probably works.  (Movie-verse probably needs an expanded version.)

 

Chris.

[Ninja-Bear]

I agree with Christougher. The easiest I believe would be to build the transformer in its robotic form and use shape shift to represent its vehicle form. The adavatage of this is that you can use anything bought in the robot form in the vehicle form unless limited by you. Certain additional movement might be bought only in vehicle form. Also look at lockout on powers that is exclusive to one form or the other. Also perhaps a Phy. Lim. Vehicle can represent such things as loss of limbs only in vehicle form. I can't remember too many other hinderences when they where stuck in vehicle mode-perhaps a human can drive them without permission?

[Asperion]

The way that I would handle this problem is since they always have their skills and mental abilities regardless of the form they are in they would be bought straight out for all forms. Then determine how many and what forms the Transformer will have. Purchase a power with the limit "only avail in x form (-1/4)" in addition to all the other mods that are placed on the power. Obviously this can get confusing when there is more than three forms (such as SixShot), but you do avoid the whole mess of multiform/shapesift.

[Shanoa Ravendare]

You know, none of had even thought of using Shapeshift! To be honest I think we all just plain forgot it existed!

 

After rereading how Shapeshift works I think I'm going to recommend it to the group, it sounds like this was the power we were looking for.  Thanks a lot guys!

[Shanoa Ravendare]

With Shapeshift, do we still need to make a second sheet for the Vehicle form? And do we need to buy it in both/all forms? This seems to be a question that comes up at our table a lot so I'll just ask it now. lol

[Ninja-Bear]

No you don't need a second form with shape shift. However I would recommend putting all vehicle only stuff together. And if does make things easier perhaps look into having a seperate sheet for vehicle form.

[Ninja-Bear]

And to your second question, you just need shape shift on your main form (probaly robotic one). Transforming back is just a matter of turning off the shape shift.

[Mister E]

It strikes me as ironic that the word robot(nik) is Slavic for 'slave' when the word slave itself is derived from 'slav(ic)'.

 

[[edit]]: Transformers are not slaves.

[Christopher]

Why even the need for Shape Shift?

"Only in Heroic Identity" (wich was renamed to the more generic "only in alternate identity" in 6E). Transformers are just superheroes whose vehicle form is thier secret ID, as much as Bruce Wayne and Klark Kent are.

It often has a shape minor shifting effect rolled into it.

 

There are a few things the robot cannot do (that well). For example I asume the vehicle form is actually better for moving long distances.

[Shanoa Ravendare]

Why even the need for Shape Shift?

"Only in Heroic Identity" (wich was renamed to the more generic "only in alternate identity" in 6E). Transformers are just superheroes whose vehicle form is thier secret ID, as much as Bruce Wayne and Klark Kent are.

It often has a shape minor shifting effect rolled into it.

 

There are a few things the robot cannot do (that well). For example I asume the vehicle form is actually better for moving long distances.

I can completely see that, and given my druthers that would be the way we handle it, however there are a couple folks at the table who used to play with GMs who insisted that if it wasn't explicitly listed on the sheet you couldn't do it (thus why we all have to put multiform on BOTH forms' sheet when we have multiform characters "If it isn't on both sheets you can't change back." ) and one of them is co-GMing the Transformers game. We have issues like this come up a lot because of their past experiences and even if the majority of the table agrees that it should be A if they insist that it's B well...then it's B or the game grinds to a screeching halt and no one has any fun.

 

I actually convinced the one that shapeshift was the better way to build them.

[Lucius]

So they're saying you can't use Only in Alternate Identity?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Next they'll be saying I can't use a palindromedary

[Shanoa Ravendare]

So they're saying you can't use Only in Alternate Identity?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Next they'll be saying I can't use a palindromedary

Haven't tried to run it past them but I can see them arguing that to use that we would have to do separate sheets for the heroic and non-heroic identities which takes us back around to Multiform and Perk debates. For some reason their old GM liked to make things more complicated than they had to be and they insist on carrying those habits into our games and driving us all crazy.

 

As for the palindromedary, you can use him if he's on your sheet.

[Shanoa Ravendare]

Would you allow a Transformer in vehicle mode to use Breakfall? A normal vehicle would definitely not be able to use such a maneuver but since Transformers can move in ways that a standard vehicle can't I would think it would still apply.

[Mister E]

Breakfall? Sure. I'd prefer Combat Driving.

[Lucius]

Would you allow a Transformer in vehicle mode to use Breakfall? A normal vehicle would definitely not be able to use such a maneuver but since Transformers can move in ways that a standard vehicle can't I would think it would still apply.

A Skill, like a Power, may have an unusual special effect. If the vehicle is designed to be able to roll over and end up upright, or to move while falling in such a way as to land on its wheels, and has superpowered shock absorbers (which are no more fantastic than the ability to turn into a robot) I don't see any reason not to call that "Breakfall."

 

On the other hand, if the robot can't use Breakfall in vehicle form, the Skill might take the Only in Robotic Identity Limitation.

 

Speaking of which, while two different character sheets are not technically required for Only in Alternate ID, there's no reason you couldn't do it that way and it might even help a player stay clear about what's possible in one form or in the other.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Keeping a palindromedary under cover

[NuSoardGraphite]

Multiform.

[Chris Goodwin]

I seem to remember seeing more than one instance of a Transformer getting hit while in vehicle form and using that as impetus to switch back to their robot form, whereupon they land on their feet.  That seems to me like (a) a good special effect for Breakfall, and (2) a data point in favor of OIAID.  
 
I might buy a Multipower with two movement slots: one to represent movement in robot mode, and one to represent movement in vehicle mode.  The one in vehicle mode might be bought with a turn mode and maybe some other tweaks to make it look more like vehicle movement.  The above use of Breakfall could be modeled by the following sequence of events:

• Transformer takes Knockback
• Transformer takes a 0 Phase Action to switch Multipower from vehicle slot to robot slot
• Transformer makes his Breakfall roll

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

Don't forget Optimus Prime's Summon Trailer power for his vehicle form.

[Ninja-Bear]

I also remember that transformers got damaged and could change forms. With all the different series out there, I'm sure that it happened more than once. Would oihid handled it as well as shape shift it would be more of a possibility in game?

[Christopher]

I can completely see that, and given my druthers that would be the way we handle it, however there are a couple folks at the table who used to play with GMs who insisted that if it wasn't explicitly listed on the sheet you couldn't do it (thus why we all have to put multiform on BOTH forms' sheet when we have multiform characters "If it isn't on both sheets you can't change back." ) and one of them is co-GMing the Transformers game. We have issues like this come up a lot because of their past experiences and even if the majority of the table agrees that it should be A if they insist that it's B well...then it's B or the game grinds to a screeching halt and no one has any fun.

 

I actually convinced the one that shapeshift was the better way to build them.

Then that GM needs to read the rules. You can always ask Steve Long over at the rules question section if you need some heavy argumentational artillery.

 

Also there is the GM rights:

Just say: "Every Transformer in this game get's a free shape shift to transform into a vehicle. If you want more forms you have to buy the power at full price."

It is the GM's right to define "everyman skills", "everyman powers" and "everyman complications". Like give the Superheroic team a free base, free communicators (everyman Perk and Power respectively).

The thing is when given for free the GM can also make it inacessible for a time if that is needed for the adventures flow, without having to explain much. i.e. the Communciators get jammed or the space base is having a power failure right now.

 

Haven't tried to run it past them but I can see them arguing that to use that we would have to do separate sheets for the heroic and non-heroic identities which takes us back around to Multiform and Perk debates. For some reason their old GM liked to make things more complicated than they had to be and they insist on carrying those habits into our games and driving us all crazy.

Multiform and OIHID kinda fill the same spot. There is much debate about using either for the Hulk or Shazaam/Capt. Marvel.

The big difference is that OIHID does not require an extra sheet, but in turn cannot cover different Complications that well.

OIHID is the way to go "if multiform was a choice, but you don't want to have an extra sheet".

 

Don't forget Optimus Prime's Summon Trailer power for his vehicle form.

Part of his special effect of appearing like a Truck. A truck without trailer would be a lot harder to hide.

 

 

I also remember that transformers got damaged and could change forms. With all the different series out there, I'm sure that it happened more than once. Would oihid handled it as well as shape shift it would be more of a possibility in game?

If the shape shift was given for free it can be just declared "it is not working" if the adventure demands it.

The one that actually bought the power for points has an advantage here.

 

You can define OIHID as "not working while at or below 0 Body".

Also don't forget that people below 0 Body are "bleeding to death" wich is at least somewhat obvious. Normal cars do not suffer that, but it would be obvious that the heavily wounded transformer is not a car. So it could be handwaved this way.