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Get rid of money in a cyberpunk heroic campaign


Dr Divago

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Hi all

my players really hate bookkeeping and they asked me to get rid of money bookkeeping; that's mean don't keep track of how much money they have, how much they need to use buying new clips, new clothing, paying for taxi and like

That's could give a narrative advantage: i don't care how much money i throw at them, how much corpse they sell to body bank, how much they loot from slaugthered enemies, they start every new adventure in the same economic condition (unless they buy a new wealth perk and that's possible only with GM permission)

However, campaign will be a cyberpunk heroic campaign, where money can, and actually do, the difference from a misfit who barely manage to do something useful in his life to a well equipped professional

get totally rid of money could give a serious advantage: even illegal equipment can be bought at the black market paying higher wage, and that's not a problem if you got no money and just "can buy everything your wealth can access"

 

Hero System already has a built in system for removing money count, but that's means using characther points or resource point to "buy" equipment options, and i really don't like it for an heroic campaign

also "the GM decide every time if i can or can't buy something" it's not a solution i like, 'cause force me to choose, and possibly argue with them, and also put at the GM on the position to decide power level of the players

a friend of mine adviced me to keep money tracking but letting the GM keep track of them and inform the player. and that's also is something i don't like because force the GM to do something the player should (and also: keeping track of own money is not really difficult, BUT keeping track of 4-5 player's money is tedious)

 

so long i'm searching for an alternative way to solve this; does someone else had this same problem? and how did you solved it?

 

i got an idea reading an old d6 adventure book: a fund roll

"fund" is a special roll and start at 3d6; every level of wealth perk is +1d6, every level of wealth complication is -1d6

to buy something you did just roll your fund dice, add toghether the result, and beat the difficulty based on item cost and (ie 5 if the item cost 100$, 30 if it cost 5000$ etc.)

 

or, something similar: you roll the dice and count body, and need to score 1 body every 300$ or less of the item; or roll the dice and score one "money success" on 5+, and every item need a fixed amount of "money success", etc

 

using a roll to decide if player can or cannot buy the item let them getting rid of money tracking and give the GM the narrative advantage BUT at the same time it prevents from destroying game setting balance 'cause they will always need to roll to buy items (i can also state they can reroll a failed roll but with less dice, or decide they can always succeed where difficulty is less than 2x number of dice, to prevent dice rolling)

 

does someone else used a similar system?

it could work or unbalance thing pretty faster?

does anyone have ideas on "how to make the fund roll system" compatible with hero mechanics (like a lucky roll, or a standard skill roll, for example)?

 

thanks for help

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I've been noodling around with the idea of expressing Wealth as a characteristic. (My original inspiration was FATE, which has, "Resources" as a skill.) It starts at a base of 10, which represents an income of ~$40,000/year (in 2010 dollars). Each point of Wealth costs 1 point, and every 5 points of wealth represents a doubling of income. Minor or budgeted expenses do not require a roll (or record-keeping), but major purchases (new car, cyberware, minigun, etc) do. If the character fails the roll, he can't afford it and has to wait until he could have reasonably saved up the money (GM's discretion). "Big scores" are bought as 1-charge Skill Levels that do not recover. They are the only kind of Skill Levels that can be used on a Wealth roll. Other skill levels can be used on an appropriate complimentary skill roll.

 

If you want a bit more detail, you could add characteristics for Capital (financial END), and Income (used for REC).

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Call of Cthulhu has, or had, Credit Rating as a Skill and it was used for major purchases as I recall, with suitable bonuses or penalties for such things as an item's availability or expense.

 

I have tried using lumps of portable wealth, such as jewels, bags of gold, etc, as Charges on Skill Levels or as Striking Appearance (since having a pouch of gems or of gold can help in all kinds of interactions: Trading, Bribery, Streetwise, even High Society. Of course, the drawback is becoming flypaper for thieves...)

 

But I have barely playtested such things so I can't say yet how well it works in practice.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary goes looking for the write ups

 

 

Pouch of Gems: (Total: 12 Active Cost, 4 Real Cost) +3 with Bribery, Trading, Whenever valuable jewel comes in handy (12 Active Points); 12 Charges which Recover every 1 Week (-3/4), IIF Expendable (Difficult to obtain new Focus; -1/2), Requires A Roll (13- roll; Jammed; -1/2) (Real Cost: 4)

 

Well dressed and adorned: +2/+2d6 Striking Appearance (vs. all characters) (6 Active Points); Side Effects, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (Attractive to thieves; -1), Only In Alternate Identity (-1/4), OIF (Requires Multiple Foci or functions at reduced effectiveness; -1/4) (Real Cost: 2)

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The d20 Modern system has a mechanic where different things, services, etc. are valued in different categories. When a character tries to buy something, he makes a roll based on his buying power. The higher the item is rated, the more difficult (and less likely) the character can purchase it. I imagine you could do something similar with Hero's wealth Perk.

 

Instead of it being an actual dollar amount (or whatever currency your campaign uses), have it reflect a purchasing ability. Of course, you would have to decide how easy or difficult various things are to acquire. You could also award characters with "temporary" windfalls, like a +2 or +3 to a single wealth roll of their choosing. Characters could always pay more point to increase their wealth status (and thus their buying ability). Alternatively, they could take Wealth as a disadvantage, which would lower their buying ability. As the GM, you could also temporarily give them financial hardships by imposing wealth penalties for a certain period of time.

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Hero System already has a built in system for removing money count, but that's means using characther points or resource point to "buy" equipment options, and i really don't like it for an heroic campaign

also "the GM decide every time if i can or can't buy something" it's not a solution i like, 'cause force me to choose, and possibly argue with them, and also put at the GM on the position to decide power level of the players

Wich version are you using?

One of the 6E APG's has a very advanced Resource Pool System. It seems to avoid all the pitfalls homebrew systems often ran into.

 

You get a certain amount of free points, but more can be bought for CP/XP or awarded by the GM based on game result like XP.

It only limits how much you can take along on adventures. There are even some sugestions about variating the Kit Size based on situation (a light/don't get spotted as armed set, a normal adventuring set and a "armed to the teeth" set).

Getting new gear was solved via a combination of perks (to get you access to that kind fo stuff) plus normal skill rolls. If you need something and don't have it in your armory, it might not be avaible on short notice.

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Mmmh ok

let's start to write out this

 

Wealth: it's a 3/2 skill (1)

familiarity in this skill is an everyone skill: that's means everyone can use it at 8-

for mundane task (ie: buying food, clothing, paying a robotaxi to go everywhere in the urban suburb) you don't need to roll, unless there are some serious reasons that actually hinder players from buying items (ie: they are hunted and cannot use electronic money, only hard cash). Still, to buy a common, mundate item you probably have a +3 - +5 bonus for routine task so it would still be a 11-/13- roll

for 2 point you buy the skill at 10-, then it's increased 1 level for 2 points.

you cannot use Skill Levels for this roll BUT

- you can buy a Big Stash of Cash, a 1 point talent who give one use only +1 to wealth skill roll (Skill Level with IIF (universal, expendable and very difficult to obtain)); you can buy it several time and use even all of them on a single roll, or spilt for different roll

- you can buy I know a guy who knows a guy..., a 1 point talent who tive you one use only +3 wealth skill (Skill Level with 1 charge who recover very slowly, like 1 in a month); you can "know several guys" but can use only one of them at a time (for a single roll)

 

The skill does'nt mean "summon a suitable object i like in my hand"; you still have to find a way to have it. Of course, most of time buying an item means open your Agent (2057's mobile phone), go to the online shop, buy the item (roll needed) and then send the information to the nearest autofactory (big industrial 3D-printing machine that replaced the stores used in the last century) and print it. So ok, it's mostly similar to the "summon a suitable object i like in my hand" :D

However, if you plan to buy a weapon you will need to go in a shop; or if it's illegal you will need to found black market seller. If you need to buy cyberware, you will need to go in an hospital (legal or illegal) and pay the Real Point cost of cyberware (well... part of it... as for my cyberware rules)

 

That's some difficulty modifier guideline:

   mod   |  situation
---------+------------
    +5   | routine buy (food, clothing)
    +3   | common buy (robotaki for suburban, common legal gear)
    +1   | cheap buy (old-style equipment, spider silk armored clothing, electronic pet, very economic handguns)
    +0   | standard buy (good looking armored clothing, standard level weapons and gear)
    -1   | affordable buy (brand armored clothes, liquivectran armor, security drones, electronic pet upgrade)
    -3   | expensive buy (dragon skin armor, cooked software, street level handguns, used smart car or city car)
    -5   | very expensive buy (military level weapons and armor, military vehicle or drone, sport car)
    -9   | insanely expensive buy (brand new ferrari, military weapon platform, advanced military weapons and armors)
    -11  | seriously? (private jet, titan, etc)
-1 to -3 | poor condition (using hard cash, have no time to search for good offering, etc)
-3 to -5 | black market for illegal items
+1 to +3 | black market for legal items (ie stolen standard level electronic pet)
-1 to -3 | strange request (ie cooked soft for unusual work, specifically tailored cyberware)
-1 to -3 | bribing someone very loyal (as for Psycho Limitation)
+1 to +3 | successful use of trading/bribing skill in a not-autofactory purchase

 

You can spend up to 18 point on this skill (that's bring them to 18- skill); for 20 point you can buy the "Bruce Wayne is a loser" talent that means you can always buy everything you whant with 17- skill

GM can forbid to put too many points on this skill, or to buy too many SL for this skill, so to keep wealth level in balance.

Also, can force increase/decrease this skill temporarily or permanently based on outcome of some adventures: if an old lady nominates you as her heir you can access a boost on this skill; however if the company you bought or someone hacked your bank account, you end up on the street, probably with a broken hat and a robo-monkey dancing close to you asking for money :D and the skill get nerfed (for a little while, or maybe until you manage to chase down the hacker...)

 

if you are willing to be broken, you can "buy off" the wealth skill for 1-point; you can still use the skill at 6- (and GM is advised to let you roll for everything, even mundane buy)

you can buy a "poor" complication meaning you got -1 to your roll for 5 point (-2 for 10 point and -3 for 15 point).

 

(1) it's not based on any char... or i should base it on INT, EGO or PRE??

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Good idea Indiana Joe

Trading can be a complimentary skill (maybe only for not automated buy?), and extra time could increase the result

i update my previous post :)

 

@Christopher

i don't like the idea of buying item with points on a heroic campaign; also don't like the idea of "kit and armory" to change your equip as in a videogame x_x

however, i will read the resource point on APG and let you know what i think about it (at the moment i read the one on dark champions)

 

oh, and i'm using 6th edition but i got also a lot of 5th edition book so i can use both suggestions

 

expanded table:

 

   mod   |  situation
---------+------------
 -1 a -4 | item in good condition, maybe modded
 +1 a +4 | item in low condition, need to be repaired
 +1 o +2 | good relationship with seller; fame to be a good buyer
 -1 a -2 | bad relation with seller; fame to be a problematic buyer
 +1 a +2 | good clothing or high PRE (for not electronic buy)
 -1 a -2 | bad clothing or very low PRE (for not electronic buy)
 +1 a +3 | very common item (market is flooded)
 -1 a -3 | high request, item is out of stock very quickly
 -3 a -5 | generally unavailable to the public
 +1 a +3 | extra time (+1 for one day search of special offer; +2 for a week search; +3 for a month search)
 +2 a +4 | it cost less than 20 bit-c/$/€/whatever
 +1 a +2 | between 20 and 200 bit-c/$/€/whatever
 -1 a -2 | between 1000 and 2000 bit-c/$/€/whatever
 -2 a -4 | several thousand of bit-c/$/€
 -5 a -7 | tens of thousand of bit-c/$/€
  -9 o + | hundreds of thousand of bit-c/$/€
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What about equating resource points and armories from Dark Champions to "resource allotments" / "epurse" and the like?

 

They don't track the money. Instead, its just assumed their accounts have enough to cover their resource points.

 

You can still have special items obtainable only through fixers (contacts), role-play, or skill use.

 

And you can give out expendable resource points (on top of their base) for "big scores" and the like.

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Thanks to everyone for your help

but it turned out they are more on a low power superhero than on an heroic campaign, ad whanna pay Characther Points for equipment

so long, the problem are no more

 

i just need to figure out if it's better an "high power heroic with resource point" or a "low power street-level superhero"... i think i'll need to read DC:TAS one more time in the next few days...

 

again, thanks for your help, you all where very helpful, as long as i needed it :)

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One observation based on this and your ammo post. You HAVE to have the laziest group of players on the fracking planet. They don't want to keep track of either Money or Ammo. What's next, not keeping track of Stun and Body? When do you as GM tell them to suck it up and learn how to do some simple book keeping?

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One observation based on this and your ammo post. You HAVE to have the laziest group of players on the fracking planet. They don't want to keep track of either Money or Ammo. What's next, not keeping track of Stun and Body? When do you as GM tell them to suck it up and learn how to do some simple book keeping?

They would hate me as a GM.  I sometimes ask to see character sheets to see if they are keeping track of things.... If they haven't been then I will tell them "Oh it looks like some of your $/ammo/equipment is missing or lost.  Now what are you going to do?"

 

My players keep pretty detailed records of their stuff.  And since we use the Obsidian Portal for the campaign I highly encourage them to update their characters on the site with the most valuable stuff.  If it is there then it is sure to be kept around.... Money tends to be fluid but some of them have a habit of stashing 10 to 30% of their $s in a 'bank'.  They put that info on OP...

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Some years back in a long-defunct heroic campaign, I gave some thought to dropping money tracking but never fully fleshed-out the details. The basic idea was to figure up a character's annual income by perk and complication and allow any purchase up to 1% of that figure as "free". As purchase prices increase, a roll would be required to complete the transaction. A roll bonus would apply to purchases that only slightly exceed the "free" level, dropping and changing to penalties as the prices rose. Also, the bonus/penalty would get worse for each subsequent transaction within a defined period (about a month, I was thinking). Failing a roll would not exactly cut off purchases, but the next roll would be 3 levels harder not just one. "Money" gained in an adventure would be in the form a favor-perk, redeemable as a single no-roll transaction (one or a set of purchases) up to the monetary value of the favor.

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