worldshaking00 Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 I am trying to come up with a somewhat slightly more comprehensive list of categories (& benefits) characters can take with the Analyze skill. I'd like to have it make a little more sense and force my players (and myself, since I find the skill potentially very useful - I'd like to sell this to our group's regular GM as well) to spend the points to buy a couple different categories. This is a thread more about the actual game mechanic rewards for making successful Analyze rolls - not about the role playing & informative aspect of the skill's use. For this purpose, "XYZ" is anything subject other than "Combat Techniques." The default examples in 6E1 64 sound good as a start, but I think that there should be a little more differentiation when it comes particularly to Analyze (XYZ) and Analyze (Combat Technique). Obviously the first won't really help you on a successful roll if the target doesn't possess XYZ technique; but assuming that the target of your scrutiny did, one would get the same game mechanic bonuses. Powergaming-wise, I can think of only one reason to take both skills: to have an uber-Complementary skill roll for making the Analyze: Combat Technique versus an XYZ-using opponent! Although the K.I.S.S. argument could be made to keep it as is, this seems a little awkward to me. So assuming I don't keep it as is, how would you handle the disparity/ubiquitous usage of simply taking Analyze: Combat Technique over any other potentially combat-related Analyze? Penalize "Combat Techniques" with a blanket skill penalty due to its over-generalization compared to a more specific Analysis? Or, reward the more-specific version with a skill roll bonus? Thanks for your thoughts and brainstorming, Heroes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 I'm not honestly sure what the analyze combat technique is really meant for. It seems kind of a hold over from martial arts campaigns and Hong Kong kung fu movies rather than a general skill applying to all genres. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 I'm not sure what you're asking about - Analyze for other forms of combat related aspects; or just more forms of the Analyze Skill? Analyze Combat Technique is useful in any campaign that has a number of general fighting styles, where you can use it against an opponent; do they fight defensively? offensively? Are they using a style known from a specific region of the world? Or a Sci-Fi setting, did he learn his fighting style on the Planet Whackamole? Beyond combat... Analyze Technology: giving you a bonus to a Systems Operation skill to activate something (especially good for alien technologty), or possibly an Inventor Skill to alter said item. Analyze Psionics: works like Analyze Magic would in a setting where Psionics might appear along side, or instead of, Magic. Analyze Tactics: Give you a bonus on your Tactics Role versus an opposing force. Analyze Magic: this could likewise be broken down in a manner similar to Analyze: "Martial Arts Style" might be. Analyze Superpowers: possibly less combat effective, but could tell you the origin of various powers, or source, or whose Fire Power came from which Super... Analyze Structure: could give you a bonus to STR, or if you use it the optional Hoist Skill (Ultimate Brick, I think it made it into Ultimate Skill as well), when lifting, breaking, or interacting with buidlings/large objects I'm sure there are other ideas I haven't thought of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndianaJoe3 Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 I've used, "Analyze Social Interaction" as a catch-all observational and defensive social skill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worldshaking00 Posted October 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 To put a finer point on the subject, I guess I will ask it another way with an example. Hope this helps. If I have Analyze: Combat Techniques, I can make a roll versus theoretically any opponent I am in combat with... seemingly regardless of whatever method of combat they are attempting to fight me with. If I have Analyze: Martial Arts, I can make a roll versus someone who is fighting me using a martial art maneuver. However the skill is worth squat versus a raw-out physical barrage or a fireball to the face. Both would cost 3 points each. Combat Techniques seems the more power-gaming-ly useful of the two due to its generalization...it would appear that it applies to any (perceivable?) combat. Of course, I understand that the Martial Arts version would probably yield better role playing/historical information abut the target's teacher/style/etc. than just a simple Combat Techniques version. I am also aware of the use of Analyze as a super-complementary skill to just about any other related endeavor/skill (like the Analyze: Technology example someone mentioned). Any thoughts on how to make a more specific kind of Analyze (Magic, Martial Arts, whatever) for appealing/useful; or, alternate forms of "Analyze"-ing a combatant? Combat techniques just seems too broad of a skill by virtue of its generalization. Thanks for reading. Your comments are appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyber624 Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 This is one of those things where it is really going to be up to the GM as to how its handled. This is how "I" would handle it: First of all note that it requires a +3 roll to get any "powergamey" benefit at all. For the most part its the other things that I would give benefit to the more "select" versions. For instance if you have analyze style vs analyse combat technique, a +1 Roll with Style would allow me to tell you that he is using a Karate Nerve Strike attack with great proficiency, where analyse combat technique would only tell you that he is punching at a nerve cluster and he seems to know what he is doing. And with my GM'ing style I would also try to ensure that the extra knowledge gained would be of some use.. Also, some GM's may agree that "no style" is also a style itself and so getting that +3 would also be worth +1 DCV against someone without any martial arts training (basically stating that the plain old Strike, Haymaker, and other moves are a "generic brawling" style that everyone knows for free.) This could make both A:CT and A:Style equally "powergamey" for your tastes. If you wanted to create more specific Analyze skills for your campaign then you would have to setup some rules of your own as to how they function. If Analyze: Kung Fu is only useful against a Kung Fu user, but worthless against someone fighting with Savat then you will need to either forbid "generic" forms of Analyze or give the specific ones some benefit (maybe Specific analyzes only need +1 or +2 to get the +1DCV for instance) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 WorldshakingOO I always combined analyze combat and analyze martial arts together. Your right, by my understanding analyze combat manuevers does seem better as is. Also don't forget that style disadvantage does give a bonus to analyze martial arts skill roll. I believe its a +1 per 5pt in the style disadvantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 Styleless Advantage: (Total: 15 Active Cost, 15 Real Cost) Invisibility to Analyze and Tactics Skills Group , Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (15 Active Points) (Real Cost: 15) Lucius Alexander Analyze this palindromedary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 The analyze actually came into play for those that had a fighting style. Didn't do much against those that had the "classic comic book martial arts" package. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worldshaking00 Posted October 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 I was thinking of a few things that could be done. Each one is a separate idea to implement, although they could be used together. 1> Borrowing something similar from the Universal Scientist (or whatever super-skill it was called): "Combat Technique" would be considered about as general a category. Attempting to Analyze a very specific, possibly never encountered before, technique should apply ~ -3 to the roll (or more if the combat style is just plain alien). If you had Analyze: Martial Arts and, for example, the opponent was using Venusian Taekwando, the penalty wouldn't be as harsh. Other KS's could be used as complementary to the Analyze... why not (KS: VIPER, versus that organization, for instance.) 2> Standard run-of-the-mill attacks (Strike, Move-By, etc.) would be straight up rolls. Also included in this would be any attacks for which the Analyzer has WFs with [yes, the general idea of knowing how a pointy sharp thing is going to hurt you... or that the muzzle is most likely the business end of a blaster rifle should be common sense... but it does give some extra utility to having those WFs]. 3> Fighting opponents who have varied fighting abilities (e.g. a certain "optic blast"-firing mutant person, who also just happens to be a black belt in HTH combat) might give that bonus to the Analyzer, until they use a combat ability for which the Analyzer was unaware of (surprise maneuvers, some feints, picking up a laser gun and shooting it...dramatic role-playing and GM oversight, of course). This could allow for the bonuses for the successful Analysis to be removed, temporarily, until the Analyzed opponent returns to a technique that the Analyzer is expecting to fight against. Thanks for your continued input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 Argh... something ate my last response... How generic or specific an Analyze (or other definable Skill like all the Knowledge Skills) will or needs to be would have to depend on the campaign. Some campaigns are large enough in scope that a specific skill can be very broad but still give detailed information; Say AK: Planet Earth in a SF campaign that spans a good dozen planets or more will provide a great deal of information but almost nothing useful in a campaign only centered on Earth itself. KS: The Sciences might be great in a quick, not science oriented campaign, but utterly useless in one that needs to define Math, Physics, Chemistry, Biology, etc... as their own sections. Same with Analyze; in a generic Fantasy setting an Analyze Combat skill might provide all one needs in relation to the setting, where a soldier trains; how good they are; and provide a Combat Bonus when facing them. But in a campaign focused around various schools of combat, like a Wuxia Campaign pitting the world's greatest warriors against each other, Analyze Combat as a generic skill is virtually useless: Everyone is a martial combatant. You'll need to drill into the Schools Of Martial Arts, or Temples Of Study, something like that Another example is Analyze: Magic; again in a generic Fantasy setting that might be all you need. But in a setting that defines specific schools of Magic and what they can and can't do you could need Analyze Illusions; Analyze Enchantments. In this case successful rolls might yield bonuses with Dispels, take an attempt to duplicate a particular potion a step down on the Time Chart, or a boost to one's own Defensive Magic against a particular spell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 ...needed more salt. <burp> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 The analyze actually came into play for those that had a fighting style. Didn't do much against those that had the "classic comic book martial arts" package. By RAW yes but its one of those things I didnt like and changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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