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Origin Story: Leylines


Vondy

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I need some help brainstorming.

 

I was thinking about the document Steve wrote for 5e that tried to create a champions-hero multi-verse. I don't really care for unified cross-genre and cross-setting origins, but I was thinking about how it posited an uptick in magic for the reason the 20th century saw the emergency of super-heroes and super-powers. Then I got to thinking about leyline theory -- namely that there are lines of magical-mystical-hoodoo energy criss-crossing the globe. The places where multiple lines converge have more power / energy. This got me to thinking, "what if leyline energies were what made superpowers / crazy-tech work?" You might get very subtle / residual energies between the lines and convergence zones, but the real super-powers would be "on the lines." These would also be the places where "worlds cross over." 

 

In your opinion, how would that effect the way a typical super-hero setting functions?

 

Note: It don't necessarily feel beholden to speculative ley-line maps people have produced for the real world. I'd rather pick my own points.

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Check again I tried to post when you did and got hung up. 

 

Cheers 

 

QM

 

I have mystic champions, too. But neither of these things really address what I'm asking. I'm not concerned with the mechanics, or how they work in the Champions Universe -- which I'm not using. I'm asking how people think a world in which super-powers, zany-tech, mystical hoo-doo, and inter-dimensional happenings only worked along ley-lines and crossover junctions would look. Instead of asking: "what if there were superheroes?" and trying to infer a "rational world" I'm asking "what if super-powers only worked in specific locations?" and proceeding from there. What are the ramifications? What would the world look like? Geopolitics? Military? Tech? Etc.

 

Note: It would necessarily be a little forgiving for the caped crusaders -- entire cities might be active sites for ley-energy esp. if on junctions -- but what I'm interested in is more speculative than what the books address.   

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What If Superpowers Only Worked in a Specific Location? 

  1. How consistent are the Superpowers? 
  2. How large is the Area of Effect? 
  3. The World Maps would show a world clustered around Ley Lines and Nexus Nodes instead of Rivers, Lakes, and Oceans. This would require the GM to redesign the world around Ley Lines and Nexus Nodes. 
  4. Tactics & Strategies would center around force your opponent out of the Area of Effect. 
  5. Technology would center around the Area of Effect and branch off. Like a Power Plant and its transmission lines. 
  6. Geopolitics would center around the largest Area of Effects. The more you control the stronger you are. 
  7. Dependence on Ley Lines and Nexus Nodes would turn the outside areas into the Wild West. 
  8. Native Americans would not be pushed out of their Tribal Lands and Sacred Sites (Ley Lines and Nexus Nodes)
  9. Civilizations thrive around resources. If a Ley Line changed or a Nexus Node vanished things could become pretty interesting. 

 

Cheers 

 

 

QM 

 

 

P.S.: GURPS Technomancer does a good job of covering these kind of questions. 

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What If Superpowers Only Worked in a Specific Location? 

  1. How consistent are the Superpowers? 
  2. How large is the Area of Effect? 
  3. The World Maps would show a world clustered around Ley Lines and Nexus Nodes instead of Rivers, Lakes, and Oceans. This would require the GM to redesign the world around Ley Lines and Nexus Nodes. 
  4. Tactics & Strategies would center around force your opponent out of the Area of Effect. 
  5. Technology would center around the Area of Effect and branch off. Like a Power Plant and its transmission lines. 
  6. Geopolitics would center around the largest Area of Effects. The more you control the stronger you are. 
  7. Dependence on Ley Lines and Nexus Nodes would turn the outside areas into the Wild West. 
  8. Native Americans would not be pushed out of their Tribal Lands and Sacred Sites (Ley Lines and Nexus Nodes)
  9. Civilizations thrive around resources. If a Ley Line changed or a Nexus Node vanished things could become pretty interesting. 

 

Cheers 

 

 

QM 

 

 

P.S.: GURPS Technomancer does a good job of covering these kind of questions. 

Sounds like some of the effects for RIFTS

CES

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If only certain places were charged up, the world might look like it does now. Certain places might have guardians to do their thing. You may have random monsters wandering around loose. 

 

In RIFTS, certain monsters have taken over these nexi and use them to power up their magic and esp to insane levels. Some of the VI that run Mexico can take on armies because they use a nexi to blast spells without using their own personal reserve.

 

Things that use leys might be able to teleport between destinations along the line.

 

Feng SHui might be more important if you don't want your house to move to somewhere else by accident.

 

How big an area would a nexus be, V?

CES

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What If Superpowers Only Worked in a Specific Location? 

  1. The World Maps would show a world clustered around Ley Lines and Nexus Nodes instead of Rivers, Lakes, and Oceans. This would require the GM to redesign the world around Ley Lines and Nexus Nodes.
  2. Civilizations thrive around resources. If a Ley Line changed or a Nexus Node vanished things could become pretty interesting. 

 

This presupposes ordinary folk want to cluster around places of mystic power or in places where super-powered individuals operate. While people do cluster around "resources" they tend to cluster, first, around essential resources. They also tend to strive for economic predictability, stability, and sustainability. As super-powers and magic are less necessary to life than food and water, and other resources for things like clothes, shelter, and the like are more needful on a day in and day out basis, I don't see leylines as being the centers people flock to throughout history -- in fact, smart people would stay away from them. I mean, why go where there are super-battles, extra-dimensional invasions, topsy-turvy natural laws,, and people with crazy powers you can't overcome with science and normal-tech? An uber-mensch has set up a petty kingdom on a ley-line? Just leave -- it may be, if he comes after you, you can just punch his de-powered ass out! I do think some city states / civilizations would pop up around ley-lines and junctions, but the overall course of human settlement throughout the ages would likely be unchanged. Also, since I'm using the premise that the level of power at ley-lines fluctuates (inspired by Steve's doc) -- there are Heroic Ages that come and go  That also makes ley-lines unpredictable resources on a macro-historical scale. A ley-line that's not on a coast, river, or other natural resource point is only useful insofar as its active. Such towns that didn't have other resources available would probably be like Gold Rush towns -- boom gone bust.

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does vondy mean like snowbird's powers only work inside Canadian borders "?

 

 

In general, I mean snowbird's powers would only function along ley-lines and junctions where they cross one another -- with junctions being the major points of power. Unless, of course, snowbirds powers were restricted to a single ley-line or point in Candada, for whatever reason.

 

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t don't know if marvel has retconned this, but when shaman gave snowbird her powers the spell he cast was designed to provide abilities to protect CANADA when a mission took her outside Canadian borders she went into a coma when she used her power

in shaman's own words

 

'I must have been TOO SPECIFIC in my spell"

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would the Leylines start and end at places of power?

these could be gates,battlefields,places where great or terrible happened(the first atomic bomb test,the 2 locations where thousands died because of atomic bombs,the first moon landing(on the moon and it connects to the closest point of power on earth)

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Well, if superpowers--or supertech, especially--only function in Places of Power , that would explain the Reed Richards Is Useless trope--he can't mass produce his supertech because it doesn't work in most places. The Baxter Building is his kingdom because it sits squarely on a site of power, so all his invention work there. Take them elsewhere and...not so much. It also means there's going to be heavy competition (amongst those in the know) for control of those sites. Why do Hero A and Villain Z fight constantly? Because they're tussling over control of one or more power sites*.

 

And depending on the supertech available, such sites could be jewels of great value to ANY organization, including entirely mundane ones. If you have a Stargate, for instance, the fact that it only works under Cheyenne Mountain (or in the Antarctic) is irrelevant. Ditto for a device that lets you spy remotely on your enemies. Build your Situation Room around it, or your spy HQ, and use it there. It doesn't HAVE to move. Vehicles are going to be the least useful devices, with weapons somewhere in the middle. They may not work on the battlefield, but they make it a lot easier to defend (or attack) your Place of Power from enemies with conventional weapons.

 

Such sites might be large, and in the middle of cities--so you get cities like Marvel's NYC, and DC's Gotham or Central City, where you have lots of heroes and villains. Or they might be small, but in densely populated areas: again, like the Baxter Building or Dr. Strange's Sanctum Sanctorum. Or small and in isolated locales, far from anything anyone else would find of value--the isolated but very dangerous lair of a witch deep in the dark forest or in the middle of the desert. Or it could be in an inhospitable area but large, and you get your mystic cities high in the Himalyas, or Atlantis, or whatever.

 

*The RPG Feng Shui posits sites of great feng shui, and that if you control such sites, it gives you good fortune. You must attune yourself to the site (through a lengthy meditation period on the site), and can only do so if you have UNCONTESTED control of it. And if you lose that control, you lose the benefits of it--wherever you are. The history of the Feng Shui world is controlled by various factions fighting a never-ending battle throughout history for control of the timeline, and one of the biggest advantages of being attuned to certain sites (which allow you to enter the other-dimensional Netherworld, thru which one can reach other times) is that if the world changes around you, you remember the world as it was. Unlike everyone else.

 

It's not quite the same concept as you're describing, but it may have some ideas you could use.

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This presupposes ordinary folk want to cluster around places of mystic power or in places where super-powered individuals operate. While people do cluster around "resources" they tend to cluster, first, around essential resources. They also tend to strive for economic predictability, stability, and sustainability. As super-powers and magic are less necessary to life than food and water, and other resources for things like clothes, shelter, and the like are more needful on a day in and day out basis, I don't see leylines as being the centers people flock to throughout history -- in fact, smart people would stay away from them. I mean, why go where there are super-battles, extra-dimensional invasions, topsy-turvy natural laws,, and people with crazy powers you can't overcome with science and normal-tech? An uber-mensch has set up a petty kingdom on a ley-line? Just leave -- it may be, if he comes after you, you can just punch his de-powered ass out! I do think some city states / civilizations would pop up around ley-lines and junctions, but the overall course of human settlement throughout the ages would likely be unchanged. Also, since I'm using the premise that the level of power at ley-lines fluctuates (inspired by Steve's doc) -- there are Heroic Ages that come and go  That also makes ley-lines unpredictable resources on a macro-historical scale. A ley-line that's not on a coast, river, or other natural resource point is only useful insofar as its active. Such towns that didn't have other resources available would probably be like Gold Rush towns -- boom gone bust.

 

So your lines and nexuses come and go. Even if these fluctuations could not be predicted you can bet there would be arts and disciplines designed to predict or control them; perhaps pseudosciences that succeed only with luck, or perhaps actual rule of thumb techniques that could eventually be refined into something reliable.

 

In any case, if a nexus is, say, a healing spring, or someone sets up in a place of power who can create a cornucopia and provide unlimited food, you can bet that people WILL choose to live nearby.

 

You might get two distinct kinds of culture; peoples who choose to avoid the unpredictable and sometimes violent effects of these "high mana" areas, and civilizations that learn to exploit them.

 

Now I think of it, never mind cultures; you could have whole ecosystems with unique species endemic to these powerful places. "Faerie," the realm of Elves and Dragons, might be visible from the top of that hill just outside the village. You could have a "dungeon delving" economy, a tradition of teams of people with courage and perhaps special powers that activate when on a ley line who venture forth to fight monsters for glory and gold and other things useful to the community when brought back, and a ready explanation for why the dragons and other monsters don't usually raid the lands of mortals - they either can't survive, or would lose their special powers.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Summon Palindromedary

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t don't know if marvel has retconned this, but when shaman gave snowbird her powers the spell he cast was designed to provide abilities to protect CANADA when a mission took her outside Canadian borders she went into a coma when she used her power

in shaman's own words

 

'I must have been TOO SPECIFIC in my spell"

 

I don't recall that. I do recall her being a Canadian demigod.

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I wonder if  you mean for these to be recent phenomenon or things that have existed since before man. If it is the latter, then I think you would see the biggest shift in the world as it is today. Things that spring to mind before of that shift are:

 

Societies probably wouldn't invest in technological development as much because of access to alternatives. Heck, people might view "science" as little more than magic through foci. For that matter, how are the laws of physics different inside the lines of power and are they consistently different inside each layline? That is to say, if water boils at 80c in Layline 1 on Tuesday, does it still boild at 80c on Friday? 

 

Even if the lines and nodes of power are internally consistent, are they externally consistent with each other? That is to say, that if the NYC nodes allows for magic healing spells to work by doing X, does the Mt. Fuji Nexus allow healing spells to work by doing X or must one do Y? This could have MASSIVE effects on how people develop in each area if it is the latter. If one node has X properties of healing while another has Y properties of death, you might see the cultural values that people develop around those distinct points as being quite different. 

 

I know things of a magical or otherwise super nature are limited to the laylines but are they transferable between laylines? For example, if I create a potion of healing in X node, can I take that potion out of the node, walk across the inactive wasteland and enter node Y and still use that potion of healing? Does it change properties?As a consequence of it staying the same you encourage some level of trade between nodes. Armies that go to war will be able to anticipate what things can and will happen when they enter new realms (and vice versa). If they don't stay the same, then trade would likely be harder to do and thus encourage more independence between groups and maybe discourage wars. 

 

Because of the laylines, are there any resources that can ONLY be found on the line of power? Does Mythril, for example, only form under laylines? Heck, does it only develop under certain lines? Do these materials have the ability of being transfer out into the normal world without loss of properties? 

 

While powers and such can not be transferred out, can effects? For example, if Storm were to create the world's most powerful hurricane over the Miami node, could she release it and let it travel  over the inactive northern Florida zone as punishment to all those heathens outside of her node? 

 

Can any aspect of the lines of power change? Are they only changed naturally and can not be interfered with or can people affect them? Could the Cabal of Cannibalistic Cretins change their layline of Loving Awesomeness so that it aligns with the land of rotten flesh thus boosting their powers? 

 

 

---

 

Anyway, that was some quick brainstorming of things that I see as being important issues. Please bear with the very rough draft nature of it. 

 

La Rose. 

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I wonder if  you mean for these to be recent phenomenon or things that have existed since before man.

 

I've thought of them as being cyclical throughout history -- with "awakenings" and "heroic ages" broken up by mundane times.Which ley-lines and places of power are most intense, or are most active, may also ebb and flow depending on which age we're talking about. I was thinking that the 20th century would have slowly seen the places of power start, one by one, start to "power up" in flicker and flashes and then stabalize so that the ley-line network slowly mapped itself map out (a ley-line requiring two stable nexus points). The real surge of power -- "the awakening" -- would come with the advent of the new millennium when the network finally completed itself.

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Well, if you assume that most of the last few hundred years of human activity were unchanged due to there being no or only weak ley lines, then I think the scenario wherein they develop in the 20th century, especially if it comes about suddenly, will cause extreme panic. People will be clamoring to claim those positions of power because of what they believe is potentially possible. In the early days they most certainly may take it forgranted that the points of power are limited and thus the ability for those points to interact and affect outside environments is limited. But not knowing that every world power might fight over trying to claim them. 

I think that if you want to have an interesting wold story you could use a bit of pulp inspiration:

 

We already know that the NAZIs had a peculiar fascination with the occult but what if there was something to it? Imagine a world in which long ago there was a great shaman in central Europe who, when facing down a great evil, decided the only way to stave off the rising darkness was to plunge the world into a new darkness - one without magic. Gathering all his might he sealed away almost all the leylines that transversed the world. Now, a few millennium later the NAZIs learn of this storied past and learn that the only way to remove the shaman's seal is with the shaman's blood. 

 

Now of course the shaman is long dead and there is no way to actually resurrect him because he sealed away such magics. BUT his bloodline didn't die with him. No, it continued on with his children. A few of whom moved Southeast into the Arab peninsula and intermingled with the locals - including the Israeli populations. And while there was no way to determine who among the then current Jewish population was a carrier of his blood, it was a safe bet that some sizable portion of the Jewish population would carry that shaman's blood. Thus the 'final solution' wasn't actually about eradicating the Jewish people out of simply racism, no, it was part of Hitler's and the SS's plan to revive the German power nodes so as to gain an advantage in the war. And it worked.

 

In a terrible uprising Germany is plunged into a great darkness as the final drops of blood hit the great seals below (pick a city). The NAZIs were not prepared to deal with the aftermath, though. The monsters, including the great dark one once again roamed the land. While their magics and powers were limited to the nodes of power, their manifestations and corporeal bodies were not, so they posed terrible threats even outside of the nodes. Now with a war on each front plus extreme Chaos inside the NAZIs fell within days to a week. But not before trying to bomb the infernal abomination back to hell.

 

Eventually the Allies had to step in and end this uprising but their conventional weapons didn't have the effects they needed to have. The US had to divert their Nuke program away from the pacific theater and onto the issue of stopping the great darkness. Many people lost their lives flying the mission but with Berlin and Dresden now turn to ash it seemed like the darkness was at last defeated. But that was only the beginning. The towering monsters of evil may have been vanquished but the nodes of power remained. The mix of evil, magic, and nuclear-fallout combined to twist the land and all those unfortuante souls in it. The world looked on with horror as new abmonations came forth. And the allies all knew that the forces at work in those cities must be put under control. Each nation vied for control and thus the rise of the cold / hot war between the Soviets, Brits, French, and Americans. 

 

----

 

This situation leaves Japan mostly alone but of course they were already in a losing battle but now with the Geopolitical situation being changed it allows you to create any possible modern landscape you want. You can easily justify a hot war between the various powers as they try to claim Berlin and Dresden. And in wasting so much on trying to do so, they are not prepared for when alternate nodes of power appear around the world and soon their resources wear thin. New world orders can then easily be created with whatever systems you think appropriate. 

Anyway, that is just an idea. 

 

La Rose. 

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Well, if you assume that most of the last few hundred years of human activity were unchanged due to there being no or only weak ley lines, then I think the scenario wherein they develop in the 20th century, especially if it comes about suddenly, will cause extreme panic. People will be clamoring to claim those positions of power because of what they believe is potentially possible. In the early days they most certainly may take it forgranted that the points of power are limited and thus the ability for those points to interact and affect outside environments is limited. But not knowing that every world power might fight over trying to claim them. 

 

I think that if you want to have an interesting wold story you could use a bit of pulp inspiration:

 

We already know that the NAZIs had a peculiar fascination with the occult but what if there was something to it? Imagine a world in which long ago there was a great shaman in central Europe who, when facing down a great evil, decided the only way to stave off the rising darkness was to plunge the world into a new darkness - one without magic. Gathering all his might he sealed away almost all the leylines that transversed the world. Now, a few millennium later the NAZIs learn of this storied past and learn that the only way to remove the shaman's seal is with the shaman's blood. 

 

Now of course the shaman is long dead and there is no way to actually resurrect him because he sealed away such magics. BUT his bloodline didn't die with him. No, it continued on with his children. A few of whom moved Southeast into the Arab peninsula and intermingled with the locals - including the Israeli populations. And while there was no way to determine who among the then current Jewish population was a carrier of his blood, it was a safe bet that some sizable portion of the Jewish population would carry that shaman's blood. Thus the 'final solution' wasn't actually about eradicating the Jewish people out of simply racism, no, it was part of Hitler's and the SS's plan to revive the German power nodes so as to gain an advantage in the war. And it worked.

 

In a terrible uprising Germany is plunged into a great darkness as the final drops of blood hit the great seals below (pick a city). The NAZIs were not prepared to deal with the aftermath, though. The monsters, including the great dark one once again roamed the land. While their magics and powers were limited to the nodes of power, their manifestations and corporeal bodies were not, so they posed terrible threats even outside of the nodes. Now with a war on each front plus extreme Chaos inside the NAZIs fell within days to a week. But not before trying to bomb the infernal abomination back to hell.

 

Eventually the Allies had to step in and end this uprising but their conventional weapons didn't have the effects they needed to have. The US had to divert their Nuke program away from the pacific theater and onto the issue of stopping the great darkness. Many people lost their lives flying the mission but with Berlin and Dresden now turn to ash it seemed like the darkness was at last defeated. But that was only the beginning. The towering monsters of evil may have been vanquished but the nodes of power remained. The mix of evil, magic, and nuclear-fallout combined to twist the land and all those unfortuante souls in it. The world looked on with horror as new abmonations came forth. And the allies all knew that the forces at work in those cities must be put under control. Each nation vied for control and thus the rise of the cold / hot war between the Soviets, Brits, French, and Americans. 

 

----

 

This situation leaves Japan mostly alone but of course they were already in a losing battle but now with the Geopolitical situation being changed it allows you to create any possible modern landscape you want. You can easily justify a hot war between the various powers as they try to claim Berlin and Dresden. And in wasting so much on trying to do so, they are not prepared for when alternate nodes of power appear around the world and soon their resources wear thin. New world orders can then easily be created with whatever systems you think appropriate. 

 

Anyway, that is just an idea. 

 

La Rose. 

 

Interesting stuff.

 

The more I think about it, though, this works better for pulps, urban fantasy, and weird-tales style stories than it does supers.

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I think you are right. The entire concept of ley lines being the whole source of power doesn't lend itself well to champions in my opinion. Especially in the manner outlined above. But I think it would be a great pulp, fantasy, post-apoc setting. And there is enough room for one to have something akin to caped crusaders, just not quite as easily.

La Rose.

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I think you are right. The entire concept of ley lines being the aole source of power doesn't lend itself well to champions in my opinion. Especially in tje manner outlined above. But I think it would be a great pulp, fantasy, post-apoc setting. And there is enough room for one to have something akin to caped crusaders, just not quite as easily.

 

La Rose.

 

While not post apoc, I'm thinking a modern-era pulp game with elements drawn from urban fantasy, mystic champions, weird-conspiracy science fiction, and parapsychology. The mystic champions stuff would have to be toned down power-level wise, but there is a lot of re-workable stuff there. Even Viper as a Naama cult could work pretty well. And, the early costumed crime fighters were really pulp heroes with a few "wow" factor tropes thrown in -- batman, the spider, the shadow, and the phantom all come to mind. Even a lot of modern street-level heroes fit into that mold -- which makes me think of Vibora Bay -- let alone shaana and kaazar! I'm not going the "costumed hero" route, I don't think -- but it would be easy to file some serial numbers off.

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