Penalty Skill Levels

[Jrandom]

One of my players posted this in Steve's forum. Opinions?

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/topic/90271-penalty-skill-levels/

 

Posted Today, 06:56 PM

Specifically for cancelling penalties to Hit Locations.

 

1pt PSL - Hit Locations - Martial Strike

 

If I buy a 1 point PSL to cancel hit location penalties with a specific maneuver, I assume that it cancels any hit location penalties, right? Or do I have to specify something like "Head" in the PSL?

 

Thanks!

 

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[Hyper-Man]

from 6e1 page 84,
 

OFFENSIVE PENALTY SKILL LEVELS
The most common category of Penalty Skill Levels reduces or counteracts negative OCV modifiers for making particular types of attacks.
Examples include:

• Range Skill Levels (RSLs), which offset the Range Modifier (they have no value at pointblank range)
• Targeting Skill Levels, which offset the penalty for targeting any and all Hit Locations
• Throwing Skill Levels, which offset the penalties for throwing unbalanced or unaerodynamic objects

 

[Greywind]

"I DID NOTHING...except get caught with my britches down. I must be going senile. Mr. Saavik, you go right on quoting regulations!"

[Jrandom]

So I assume that no one plays with random hit locations, since those GMs who are foolish enough to will have all their players spending 8 points to get their killing attacks to do 2x body and either 4x or 5x stun?

[Greywind]

I use them but only if the situation calls for it, through the use of characters' skills.

[Steve]

It is perfectly reasonable to have caps on penalty skill levels. Four levels would allow chest shots easily and avoid limb hits. Head/Vitals shots would still carry a penalty.

[ghost-angel]

So I assume that no one plays with random hit locations, since those GMs who are foolish enough to will have all their players spending 8 points to get their killing attacks to do 2x body and either 4x or 5x stun?

 

Rolling for Hit Location is generally reserved for Heroic Games, with lower point totals many PCs do not put PSLs into Hit Locations and/or they're playing to concept and not buying it because it doesn't fit. Superheroic games generally don't use Hit Locations at all unless you're making a specific called shot, and again usually only purchase to fit concept.

[bigbywolfe]

So I assume that no one plays with random hit locations, since those GMs who are foolish enough to will have all their players spending 8 points to get their killing attacks to do 2x body and either 4x or 5x stun?

There are so many things wrong with that assumption I'm not sure where to start.

First off, 8 points would only negate penalties with a single attack/weapon.

Second, there is no reason that a campaign wouldn't have a limit on PSLs just like most do on CV and some do on CSLs.

Third, many people allow Called Shots in games when random hit locations aren't being used anyway, so your imaginary problem would not be limited to random hit location games.

Fourth, there are these great little things called GMs.  They run the games.  They aren't all complete morons.  Some are even smart enough to use hit locations without being "foolish enough" to let the players break the game.

[Xavier Onassiss]

One of the best examples of Penalty Skill Levels vs. Hit Locations ever:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Fneblo-FIE

 

Note that both seem to require both hands on a 1-handed weapon. (Only when Braced? Set?) They might also be taking a little bit of Extra Time. (Delayed Phase?)

 

So I'd suggest that it's OK for the GM to require Limitations on PSLs v. Hit Locations.

[Greywind]

Two hands for a handgun seems to be standard practice for police.

[justmill]

I think we've all been in the situation where you gotta cut the head off a vampire or at least put a stake in it's heart rather quickly. 

[Hyper-Man]

I think we've all been in the situation where you gotta cut the head off a vampire or at least put a stake in it's heart rather quickly. 

Yep.

 

[BhelliomRahl]

I usually CAP PSL at offsetting 4pts.  As with all abilities spending I determine what I will allow based on the game we are playing. 

 

Example of Exception:

I allowed a character to offset all 8pts for Hit Locations. This was in a Monster Hunter International game.  The ability only applied to only applied to Knives in melee.  I allowed this considering that most Players used Firearms for the range and damage and that Monsters are generally melee users and could kill or take out a player in a single turn.

[Xavier Onassiss]

Then there was the NPC who had the "Hit 'Em Where It Hurts" super skill: 8 PSL's against hit locations, with the limitation Only for Location 13 (Vitals).

 

Nobody liked her very much....

[Vanguard]

So I assume that no one plays with random hit locations, since those GMs who are foolish enough to will have all their players spending 8 points to get their killing attacks to do 2x body and either 4x or 5x stun?

You assume incorrectly.

 

We've played with random hit locations before.

 

In fact, most of our games are Heroic Level were that's pretty much a requirement.

 

And, in all of the games, we've played, I've never encountered a player that has 8 PSL's.  4 yes as that allows main body shots (and greatly speeds up play) but that's it.

 

But Character Points in a Heroic Level games are a precious.  Our players usually have something better to spend those points on then min/maxing a combat monster.  Personally, I usually have a laundry list of skills/abilities that I need just to "complete" my character.  So my Character Points pretty much already have a home.  Spent before I even earn 'em.

 

Also ,you seem to be over looking that it's up to the GM to approve, or disprove, anything on the character.  It's up to him to say "No, you can't have 8 PSLs" and then explain why.

 

You (general "you" not you specifically) then need to abide by the fact that sometimes you can't have something because it disrupts/unbalances the game.

[mhd]

I've seen it happen with dedicated combat archers. Ranged combat just doesn't have as much fun stuff to spend their points on than melee dudes, especially if you're not playing some "ranger" type...

[Vanguard]

I dunno, when we were playing Gate Crashers, with a good portion of the action revolving around gun-play, we still didn't have players maxing out their PSLs.

 

Still, I can see how it could be a problem but that's when it's up to the GM to step up and go "Hey Guys . . . "

[mhd]

Anyone ever done a calculation comparing the relative costs and benefits of location PSLs, Deadly Blow dice and straight OCV levels?

[IndianaJoe3]

I typically avoid this problem by setting a campaign guideline of not more than two stacking Skill Levels. 

[Ninja-Bear]

Curious, can you use psl to offset the DCV bonus for shrinking?

[Ninja-Bear]

Curious, can you use psl to offset the DCV bonus for shrinking?

[ghost-angel]

I believe you can only use PSLs to offset specific OCV Penalties the Attacker occurs.

 

Though a CSL with a Limitation "Only Versus DCV Bonus" is effectively the same thing.

[Ninja-Bear]

G-A I did see in fifth rev. that in rare cases psl can be used against DCV. I guess my real question is would psl (within reason) against shrinking DCV although possibly illiegal be a game breaker?

[ghost-angel]

I don't think it'd be a Game Breaker at all.

[Ninja-Bear]

Thanks G-A!