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Intoxication


Armitage

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In reading through the PDF of Fantasy Hero Complete, I realized that 5e Fantasy Hero, 6e Fantasy Hero, and Fantasy Hero Complete all give centaurs the Complication Prone To Intoxication (-3 on CON Rolls to resist drunkenness).

 

The problem is...I can't recall any rule that involves making a CON Roll to avoid getting drunk.  4e had a write-up for alcohol, but it was just an INT, DEX, and CON Drain, with no roll to resist.  Maybe an optional rule in Digital Hero that I'm not recalling?  There are OCV and DCV penalties for being intoxicated, but no rules for becoming intoxicated.

 

Is it really a Complication if you have a penalty for a rule that doesn't actually exist?

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I dunno, I think it is sort of like a Weakness, I would require a Con based roll to show good judgment by a drunk character, and Centaurs take a -3...?

 

Example: "You hear the clinking of armor, surely it is a patrol of the city guard" "We will hide in the nearby ally" "Will you? you are very drunk" (Roll fails) "Wouldn't it be hilarious if you pants the Baillif, as he walks by?"

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Basing it on CON makes it sound like a physical dependency or addiction.

 

If they just have a hard time resisting temptation to drink, I'd change it to an EGO roll at -3 instead.

 

Am I crazy, or does that just make a little more sense?

 

You are not crazy, but I do think it is an addiction, so I think Con is a good stat, and it uses the whole He man, can drink many beers! Thang ring true (ish) as well.

 

AFAIK alchaholics do suffer withdrawal, so it is at least partially physical...

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Basing it on CON makes it sound like a physical dependency or addiction.

 

If they just have a hard time resisting temptation to drink, I'd change it to an EGO roll at -3 instead.

 

Am I crazy, or does that just make a little more sense?

 

 

I figured that it was meant to be something like the Stinking Vapors power in Champions Powers. (Change Environment that only works if the target fails a CON Roll.)

After "x" drinks, make a CON Roll to avoid becoming intoxicated.  Each additional drink after "x" imposes a penalty.  Some drinks are weak and give a bonus; other drinks are potent and impose a penalty. 

6E1 44 mentions making a CON Roll to resist poisons or diseases, but none of the write-ups for those attacks include that mechanism.  e.g., the poisons in the Hero System Equipment Guide.

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This really needs to be a skill.

 

Carousing

Cost 3 for a roll based on CON, +1 per 2 pt.

(Note: Familiarity should be an Everyone Skill in many cultures)

 

In appropriate convivial situations, Carousing acts as a complementary Skill to Conversation or Charm, and sometimes to High Society, Streetwise, and similar Skills, or even as a replacement for Conversation if the character does not have that Skill.

 

If a character fails a CON roll to resist the effects of intoxication, they may make an immediate Carousing roll to resist, at the same bonus or penalty. Once intoxicated, the character may make a Carousing roll to cut the penalties of intoxication to half, rounded up.

 

When the character would otherwise fall unconscious due to intoxication, make a Carousing roll every Turn (or dramatically appropriate period of time) to remain awake. If trying to eavesdrop while pretending to be dead to the world, Carousing is a complementary Skill to Acting.

 

At the Game Operations Director's option, Carousing may be used to induce a target to consume more of an intoxicant than intended (to pump them for information, get them to agree to something they wouldn't agree to while sober, or even get them to pass out so they can be bundled up and carried off quietly.) Roll Carousing vs the target's INT or EGO roll, whichever is higher; failure makes them suspicious, the results of success should be determined by common sense, dramatic sense, and game balance. This will only work on someone who is already indulging in the intoxicant.

 

Conversely, if a character wants to give the impression of having consumed more and/or being more intoxicated than is actually the case, roll Carousing vs INT or Perception and Acting can be a complementary Skill. This can fool even someone who hasn't been indulging.

 

Carousing is useful in certain other situations.

 

If a character is at 0 to -10 STUN, and makes a Carousing roll, they may perceive obvious things without a Perception roll and inobvious things without any extra penalties for being on the verge of unconsciousness - the character is accustomed to that woozy feeling. They have a limited choice of actions:

1. sit down (if standing)

2. fall down (if standing or sitting)

3. stagger a few steps in a chosen direction (if standing, make DEX roll or fall)

4. cry out a single short word or phrase (if an EGO or INT roll is made) but the effort costs 10 STUN and the character will fall (completely) unconscious, if the roll is made or not. A failed roll means instead of the intended utterance, an incoherent moan or inappropriate exclamation comes forth.

 

If subject to Mental Illusions or Mind Control, the character may use Carousing instead of EGO as a breakout roll (they have learned to ignore hallucinations and those funny voices in their head.)

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary notes that if you are talking about someone resisting the temptation to drink, an EGO roll makes sense; if you are talking about someone who has started drinking resisting the effects, a CON roll makes sense.

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Carousing

Cost 3 for a roll based on CON, +1 per 2 pt.

(Note: Familiarity should be an Everyone Skill in many cultures)

 

In appropriate convivial situations, Carousing acts as a complementary Skill to Conversation or Charm, and sometimes to High Society, Streetwise, and similar Skills, or even as a replacement for Conversation if the character does not have that Skill.

 

If a character fails a CON roll to resist the effects of intoxication, they may make an immediate Carousing roll to resist, at the same bonus or penalty. Once intoxicated, the character may make a Carousing roll to cut the penalties of intoxication to half, rounded up.

 

When the character would otherwise fall unconscious due to intoxication, make a Carousing roll every Turn (or dramatically appropriate period of time) to remain awake. If trying to eavesdrop while pretending to be dead to the world, Carousing is a complementary Skill to Acting.

 

At the Game Operations Director's option, Carousing may be used to induce a target to consume more of an intoxicant than intended (to pump them for information, get them to agree to something they wouldn't agree to while sober, or even get them to pass out so they can be bundled up and carried off quietly.) Roll Carousing vs the target's INT or EGO roll, whichever is higher; failure makes them suspicious, the results of success should be determined by common sense, dramatic sense, and game balance. This will only work on someone who is already indulging in the intoxicant.

 

Conversely, if a character wants to give the impression of having consumed more and/or being more intoxicated than is actually the case, roll Carousing vs INT or Perception and Acting can be a complementary Skill. This can fool even someone who hasn't been indulging.

 

Carousing is useful in certain other situations.

 

If a character is at 0 to -10 STUN, and makes a Carousing roll, they may perceive obvious things without a Perception roll and inobvious things without any extra penalties for being on the verge of unconsciousness - the character is accustomed to that woozy feeling. They have a limited choice of actions:

1. sit down (if standing)

2. fall down (if standing or sitting)

3. stagger a few steps in a chosen direction (if standing, make DEX roll or fall)

4. cry out a single short word or phrase (if an EGO or INT roll is made) but the effort costs 10 STUN and the character will fall (completely) unconscious, if the roll is made or not. A failed roll means instead of the intended utterance, an incoherent moan or inappropriate exclamation comes forth.

 

If subject to Mental Illusions or Mind Control, the character may use Carousing instead of EGO as a breakout roll (they have learned to ignore hallucinations and those funny voices in their head.)

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary notes that if you are talking about someone resisting the temptation to drink, an EGO roll makes sense; if you are talking about someone who has started drinking resisting the effects, a CON roll makes sense.

Nice! You should also note the use of Resistance, as a specialized version of "Mighty Drinker!" Bjorn the fell handed will make a Carousing now, +3 for Mighty Drinker!

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Basing it on CON makes it sound like a physical dependency or addiction.

 

If they just have a hard time resisting temptation to drink, I'd change it to an EGO roll at -3 instead.

 

Am I crazy, or does that just make a little more sense?

 

You are not crazy, but I do think it is an addiction, so I think Con is a good stat, and it uses the whole He man, can drink many beers! Thang ring true (ish) as well.

 

AFAIK alchaholics do suffer withdrawal, so it is at least partially physical...

 

That's alcoholism, not drunkenness.

 

The way I read centaurs, they are cheap dates (it does not take a lot of booze to make them drunk). That implies that alcohol is a drain effect that allows a con roll to resist. Since there aren't printed rules for boozing, it's safe to assume that this is the case. What is harder to do is to remember not to buy your character a bonus to con to resist poisons, since all printed poisons seem to be NND(immunity), and do not require a con roll. 

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That's alcoholism, not drunkenness.

 

The way I read centaurs, they are cheap dates (it does not take a lot of booze to make them drunk). That implies that alcohol is a drain effect that allows a con roll to resist. Since there aren't printed rules for boozing, it's safe to assume that this is the case. What is harder to do is to remember not to buy your character a bonus to con to resist poisons, since all printed poisons seem to be NND(immunity), and do not require a con roll. 

Not sure I am able to see the difference..."I am no Alky! I just like to drink!( and cannot stop)" :) I think there has been several takes on how drugs etc "work" in Hero so it is not suprising to see several mechanisms floating around...

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Not sure I am able to see the difference..."I am no Alky! I just like to drink!( and cannot stop)" :) I think there has been several takes on how drugs etc "work" in Hero so it is not suprising to see several mechanisms floating around...

You don't see the difference?  So you equate getting drunk a single time to being an alcoholic?  

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So that it requires being a separate mechanism? I only took Heroin Once, so...? A legal substance is still a substance that intoxicates, etc...

They are already separate mechanisms.  Being drunk imposes negative Combat Value modifiers (the problem being there is no mechanic to determine when you become intoxicated).  Being an alcoholic uses the Dependency Complication to impose Incompetence which negatively affects Skill rolls if you don't drink.  Completely different, just like getting fall down drunk or being an alcoholic going through withdrawal are completely different.

 

I have no clue what the hell bringing up heroin or the fact that alcohol is legal has to do with the discussion.  You suffer the effects of being drunk when you are drunk, regardless of whether you are an alcoholic and regardless of whether alcohol is legal where you live. 

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Not sure I am able to see the difference..."I am no Alky! I just like to drink!( and cannot stop)" :) I think there has been several takes on how drugs etc "work" in Hero so it is not suprising to see several mechanisms floating around...

The difference I'm highlighting is the difference between being able to resist taking a drink and the ability of one's body to resist turning the act of consuming alcohol into being physically and mentally impared. I read the OP's description of centaurs ("-3 on CON Rolls to resist drunkenness") as the later, not the former.

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They are already separate mechanisms.  Being drunk imposes negative Combat Value modifiers (the problem being there is no mechanic to determine when you become intoxicated).  Being an alcoholic uses the Dependency Complication to impose Incompetence which negatively affects Skill rolls if you don't drink.  Completely different, just like getting fall down drunk or being an alcoholic going through withdrawal are completely different.

 

Perhaps we should create a conceptual model* here of alcohol. If the Centaur entry is any indication, Alcohol looks something like this (and forgive me for forgetting official wording, I don't have a book in front of me):

 

Fifth of cheap booze

Drain Attributes 1D6 (10 base points)

4 Attributes at once (Int, Dex, OCV, DCV; +1 1/2)

Wears off -5 every hour, not every turn (+1 3/4)

Charges (17.1 "shots"; + 1/4)

(45 Active Points)

OAF (-1) add fragile if glass bottle

Requires a Roll (Make a CON check with each shot taken to suffer effects; -1/2)

Limitation: Life Support--Poison Immunity gives immunity to this; -0**

Limitation: Some people develop addiction-based dependency complication regarding this; -0**

 

Does that look right to people?

 

**Not really a limitation, just taking note of these.

 

 

*one where we don't have to argue over the specifics, but maybe agree on the core mechanics.

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Intoxication is listed as -2 OCV/DCV in the environmental combat modifiers section. I think it is totally within the GM's right to penalize DEX and IN Skills as well, but I don't think I'd go as far as building a Drain.

Silly thought, but since Intoxication is listed as an environmental condition what about using Change Environment if we have to build it as a Power? Change Environment to Intoxicated resisted by CON roll.

Personally I'd prefer not building it as a Power at all and simply having some guidelines for determining whether or not you become intoxicated.

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Intoxication is listed as -2 OCV/DCV in the environmental combat modifiers section. I think it is totally within the GM's right to penalize DEX and IN Skills as well, but I don't think I'd go as far as building a Drain.

Silly thought, but since Intoxication is listed as an environmental condition what about using Change Environment if we have to build it as a Power? Change Environment to Intoxicated resisted by CON roll.

Personally I'd prefer not building it as a Power at all and simply having some guidelines for determining whether or not you become intoxicated.

Well, you only consider it a power if the object "bottle of booze" is part of your equipment or gadget pool. Drinks your character drinks in the bar are simply effects that happen.

 

As to building a drain, the only reason the drain is a plus is that it adds a random effect per drink on top of the con roll, giving a wide variation in drunkenness for a group of characters leaving the bar, which is realistic.

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