megaplayboy Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 Just an idea I had. Some people have noted the challenge of relating the wealth perk and money into a system where players normally spend character points to do stuff. One possible way to reflect the value of money is by creating a Limitation that reflects the expenditure of resources. An example system: Costs Money(-0): Base Cost Factor is 1 unit of currency(in a modern setting, 1 dollar; in a fantasy setting, 1 copper piece; in a sci fi setting, 1 credit) (-1/4): Base Cost Factor is 10 units (-1/2): Base Cost Factor is 100 units (-3/4): Base Cost Factor is 1000 units (-1): Base Cost Factor is 10,000 units (-1 1/4): BCF 100K (-1 1/2): BCF 1M (-1 3/4): BCF 10M (-2): BCF 100M (-2 1/4): BCF 1B (-2 1/2): BCF 10B (-2 3/4): BCF 100B (-3): BCF 1T The base value of an item purchased, for example, might be its total cost in active points multiplied by its real cost(before the costs money lim is applied). So a 60 active point blaster, OAF, 16 charges, might have a base value of 1800, before a base cost factor is determined(with a -1/2, the BCF would be 100, leading to a final price of 180,000 units(which might be appropriate in some settings; in others it could be much cheaper or much more expensive). The players still would have to pay points for items, but their wealth perk could make the items a little bit cheaper. The downside is that every time the item is lost or destroyed, they have to spend money to get it back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WistfulD Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 This is trying to apply a limitation to a state of being that is inherent to items in a heroic campaign and irrelevant in a super-heroic one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 If I was to use this I think I'd just go with a straight, flat -1/4 limitation: also costs money, because the amount of cash on each character will vary so much that an absolute system of costs doesn't apply generally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister E Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 Restricted Recovery (6E1 372): "Some forms of Charges only replenish themselves if the character does something expensive... [e.g.] having to pay large sums of money... If so, increase the value of Charges by -1/4 (or more, in the GM's option)." Cue Costs Money. "Characters generally should not take Restricted Recovery for powers w/ Expendable Foci." ... but can. Expendability (6E1 378): "If the Focus is Difficult to acquire (...requires a little money, gold, or other resources to recover...), this is an additional -1/4 Limitation." "... Very Difficult... a lot of money or items of similar value... -1/2 Limitation." "... Extremely Difficult... a fortune for each one... the Limitation is worth an additional -1." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaximander Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 I think Christopher Taylor has a point. I have tried to come up with economic systems from scratch for games based on what I know from real world economics and have typically given up with a headache. The problem is that there is a difference between money and real buying power which is really far too amorphic to be applied in a static statistic for a roleplaying game system. You would probably be far more accurate determining the value of the limitation by feel than by the application of a formula. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 The problem is that you can have three guys in the group with wildly different monetary levels, and over time it can vary wildly as well. Bob with the Money perk can be rich while Fred with the poverty complication is destitute. But later, there's an economic crash and Bob loses his money, while Fred digs up a chest full of doubloons and gems. How much is the limitation worth now? Its a question of volatility, not fixed rarity and difficulty to obtain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister E Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 "Blood Money" (list) both Unified Power (-1/4) & IIF (-1/4): (7 pts) +10 Money: Wealthy (7 pts) +10 BODY If the BODY of the character w/ Blood Money is affected by Negative Adjustment Powers, that person's Money Perk is also equally & simultaneously affected. Likewise vice versa. "Alway hit them where it hurts the most." [edit] Added IIF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaplayboy Posted February 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 I think the Difficult to Acquire could be broken down roughly as follows: For a -1/4, the object is expensive but affordable for a person of average wealth For -1/2, the object is beyond the means of a person of average wealth but affordable to a person of affluence(i.e., 5 pts of wealth) For -3/4, the object is beyond the means of even an affluent person but affordable to a person who is well-off(i.e., 10 points of wealth) For -1, the object is beyond the means of even a well-off person but affordable to a person who is filthy rich(i.e., 15 points of wealth) The wealth perk then essentially conveys some in-game benefit when acquiring foci and various gadgets and gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 The problem arises if it is cheaper to buy Money+Expensive Equipment than it is to buy the equipment without money, in terms of character points. Suddenly you get a lot of rich superheroes. Unlimited wealth is, what, 10 points? Save more than that and everyone will be doing it. In fact we came up with a wealth bomb once to stop robberies. Hero turns up, throws the UAA AOE Wealth Grenade, and suddenly everyone in the area is rich and does not need to do a robbery. We were getting a but meta by then... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 Having said that it could work if money was something you had to earn by role playing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister E Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 Players should not be able to purchase in-game currency w/ out-of-game currency. Favors are different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WistfulD Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 They're both in-game currency. But the fact remains. In heroic settings, you buy equipment with money, not points, so the point cost is irrelevant. In super-heroic campaigns, extra wealth won't get you extra super-equipment. Restricted recovery and expendability cover the idea that replacing the item incurs such a cost as to be hindering (you can only affford so many per paycheck, tracking of these rare and expensive components is traceable (think Dark Knight), etc. I just see this as a solution searching for a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 The thing is that, in heroic games, you usually pick your equipment from an appropriate list that everyone else gets to pick from too. In a superheroic game I don't care if you can buy equipment using cash so long as it is so massively less useful than the stuff you can buy with character points that you'd not want it. There's nothing wrong with a solution searching for a problem. There are no monopoles on the discussion boards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 Players should not be able to purchase in-game currency w/ out-of-game currency. Favors are different. Are you suggesting bribery? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister E Posted February 28, 2015 Report Share Posted February 28, 2015 Are you suggesting bribery? Bribery is such an ugly word. People need to eat. We are people of the world. I'm sure a mutually satisfactory arrangement can be reached w/o anyone being the wiser. Help me help you. Your leisure is my pleasure. What is it that you really want? You'll get it. No strings. Let us never speak of this again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted February 28, 2015 Report Share Posted February 28, 2015 Player: Hi, can't make it this week but here is my contribution to the pizza fund anyway. GM: No problem. I forsee things going well for you in your absence. We could take this further. It might not actually be necessary to play any games at all. We could just set up a system of inducements, shall we call them, whereby the GM emails you once a week and explains the wonderful fantasy life you are having in your absence. That could be quite a lucrative income stream. I mean you could probably just do one email and send it to all your players rather than sending individually tailored ones (see here), so long as they did not compare notes i.e so long as you don't cross the income streams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted February 28, 2015 Report Share Posted February 28, 2015 Giving your GM pizza and snacks is not bribery, its just hospitality and gratitude for all the work they put into the game. If you happen to benefit from this, well so be it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister E Posted March 1, 2015 Report Share Posted March 1, 2015 People donate blood for Prestige in live-action Vampire games. http://www.mindseyesociety.org/player-tools/prestige/ Macabre! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister E Posted March 1, 2015 Report Share Posted March 1, 2015 fantasy life"You have a great need for other adventures to like & admire you." "Your class change has caused problems for you." "At times you have serious doubts as to whether you should go right or left." "You prefer a certain amount of treasure & experience & become dissatisfied when hemmed in by dungeons & dragons." "You have found it unwise to be too frank in revealing your alignment to others." "Some of your limited wishes tend to be full on wishes." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WistfulD Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 The thing is that, in heroic games, you usually pick your equipment from an appropriate list that everyone else gets to pick from too. In a superheroic game I don't care if you can buy equipment using cash so long as it is so massively less useful than the stuff you can buy with character points that you'd not want it. There's nothing wrong with a solution searching for a problem. There are no monopoles on the discussion boards In this instance, I was using the term solution searching for a problem as in mechanically, not what we do spending time on the boards. There are already systems in place for monetary cost in both heroic and super-heroic games. To add another modifier is double dipping in my mind (like applying the "hand-to-hand" modifier to an HKA attack. The penalty is already in there in the rules). If you want to pick equipment in a heroic campaign that others do not get, there are perks that simulate that. As always, YMMV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 The problem arises if it is cheaper to buy Money+Expensive Equipment than it is to buy the equipment without money, in terms of character points. Suddenly you get a lot of rich superheroes. Unlimited wealth is, what, 10 points? Save more than that and everyone will be doing it. In fact we came up with a wealth bomb once to stop robberies. Hero turns up, throws the UAA AOE Wealth Grenade, and suddenly everyone in the area is rich and does not need to do a robbery. We were getting a but meta by then... Don't stop there. Include a status Perk and Positive Reputation, all Usable by Others and Area Effect then Megascale the Area up to global. Now everyone in the world not only has all the resources they need to fulfill their desires, everyone is generally respected and liked by everyone else. You can eliminate the motivations of crime and conflict at their roots. Utopia is within our point budgtet! Lucius Alexander When everyone has a palindromedary, no one will envy me for having a palindromedary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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