knockdown (5th ed.) heroic level

[Ninja-Bear]

I've been running fantasy hero and knockdown by the rules seems alittle complicated versus knockback-only does knockdown. Does anyone else use knockdown? Does anyone else thinks its clunkier than knockback-only knock down?

 

Like to hear your guys insight.

 

Thanks in advance!

[WistfulD]

Not really. In a heroic game, We generally figure that a character gets knocked down when they are tripped (or at least the equivalent effect), and when they are put down below 0 stun. We rule that being lightly below 0 stun (such that they'll recover in a turn) means that they are extra staggered, and will fall down and drop what's in their hands, but still be concious.

[Ninja-Bear]

So WishfulD when you say a equivalent effect, would getting hit the tail of a giant lizard be one? I never had the issue come up before with knockdown/knockback in a heroic game then a friend of mine's character has a staff which does knockback-only for knockdown. He wasn't familiar with the knockdown rules and quite frankly using knockback is easier since we are all familiar with it from Champions. The knock down only rule means that you roll for knockback as usual but if it succeeds, then the max is 1" and targets falls down.

[Lucius]

 

Never used it, never felt a need for it.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Haven't been knocked off the palindromedary

[NuSoardGraphite]

It depends on the nature of the attack. If the character gets attacked by an enemy with strength and mass much greater than they are, then i do knockdown. If not, i dont worry about it unless it was a massive attack or the characters are stunned by the attack.

[WistfulD]

Yes, like the lizard. Any sweep-you-off-your-feet type move. Heroic campaigns are supposed to be more realistic at the cost of being more deadly. In real life in a fight, when are you knocked down? When you are staggered so much that you fall over (like a boxer), and when someone deliberately attacks your feet to get you on the ground. The martial arts system has its own trip mechanic (which is really more of an all-or-none, knock you down if they hit, so I don't actually like it so much), but I can see using the knockdown mechanic. The problem is that the defense against it is the KB resistence ability, which I can't realistically picture in a heroic game (and adds one more defense you have to keep track of).

 

So WishfulD when you say a equivalent effect, would getting hit the tail of a giant lizard be one? I never had the issue come up before with knockdown/knockback in a heroic game then a friend of mine's character has a staff which does knockback-only for knockdown. He wasn't familiar with the knockdown rules and quite frankly using knockback is easier since we are all familiar with it from Champions. The knock down only rule means that you roll for knockback as usual but if it succeeds, then the max is 1" and targets falls down.

[Ninja-Bear]

It depends on the nature of the attack. If the character gets attacked by an enemy with strength and mass much greater than they are, then i do knockdown. If not, i dont worry about it unless it was a massive attack or the characters are stunned by the attack.

Yup but what mechanic do you use or do you just eyeball it?

[bigbywolfe]

I've been running fantasy hero and knockdown by the rules seems alittle complicated versus knockback-only does knockdown. Does anyone else use knockdown? Does anyone else thinks its clunkier than knockback-only knock down?

 

Like to hear your guys insight.

 

Thanks in advance!

I don't know how the knockdown rules can be clunkier than knockback-only does knock down when that is exactly what the knockdown rules are..

[Ninja-Bear]

Bigbywolf I'll be the first to admit that I might be missing something but the knockdown rules for heroic level seems more complex than should be.

Which is why I posted this thread.

[bigbywolfe]

From CC page 158:
 

With this option, any attack that would cause Knockback

simply Knocks Down the target in his current location instead.

Impairing or Disabling wounds also result in Knockdown.

That's the exact same level of complexity as Knockback.

Or are you referring to the Knockdown rules that only apply if both the optional Hit Location and Impairing/Disabling rules are in play?  Because that would be good to know going into the conversation.  If that's what you are talking about I find them less complex than the Impairing/Disabling rules themselves.

EDIT: Just saw you specified 5E.  I'm at work and don't have my 5E books with me (most of my PDFs are 6E), but I don't recall any significant change in Knockdown between editions.  If there is, my bad.

[IndianaJoe3]

The only changes involve moving from hexes to meters.

 

Getting back to the idea of the tail swipe,,, that could also be an application of the Throw maneuver.

[Greywind]

...or a Leg/Tail Sweep. "Target falls."

[Ninja-Bear]

 

 

Or are you referring to the Knockdown rules that only apply if both the optional Hit Location and Impairing/Disabling rules are in play? Because that would be good to know going into the conversation. If that's what you are talking about I find them less complex than the Impairing/Disabling rules themselves.

Yes Bigbywolf, I should have been more specific. (Technically I'm using 5th rev.) And knockdown uses impairing and disabiling with hit location.

[Ninja-Bear]

Really would I'm trying to ask but goofed was, when using move by/through in a heroic game, do you use knock back mechanic?

[Mister E]

"Knockdown or Knockback" [Move Through: FREd p.258]

 

It depends on whether the game is Heroic or Superheroic.

 

Knockdown is the standard fallback for Heroic games.

 

Does Knockback (+1/4) is thus required for an attack to do Knockback.