Supergirl

[Narf the Mouse]

...Watch less CInemaSins, everyone.

[Andrew_A]

I wasn't even thinking of Cinema Sins! Good catch.

 

Seriously though, is it too much to ask for a little originality?

[Pattern Ghost]

 Most likely, "random DEO thug #42"

 

Random DEO thug #42 is Hank Henshaw. May not be so random.

[Greywind]

Cliche's are cliche's because they're true.

[zslane]

Would a nuke even stop a Kryptonian?

 

For me, that was the most compelling question raised by Kingdom Come, namely, how do you stop a godlike being who has decided to go off the reservation? The Watchmen briefly flirted with this question too, but chose to put its god into exile rather than really examine the issue too deeply. Somehow I doubt that such a serious subject would creep into a show so relentlessly cheery as Supergirl, even indirectly via arguments with nameless random "DEO thugs".

 

Um, what is a DEO?

[wcw43921]

Department Of Extranormal Operations

[Andrew_A]

Would a nuke even stop a Kryptonian?

 

Depends on who's writing it.

[Steve]

I plan on watching it.

 

Having Dean Cain and Helen Slater play Kara's Earth parents is a great casting gag.

[Ternaugh]

I wasn't even thinking of Cinema Sins! Good catch.

 

Seriously though, is it too much to ask for a little originality?

 

Then we really shouldn't be going to a character created in 1959.

[Greywind]

I plan on watching it.

 

Having Dean Cain and Helen Slater play Kara's Earth parents is a great casting gag.

 

Helen Slater also played Lara on Smallville.

[FrankL]

Good thoughts on the series and the way Supergirl has been handled in the past. Wow, this guy is a major geek!

[Nolgroth]

...Watch less CInemaSins, everyone.

 

CinemaSins is like TV Tropes. I really dislike deconstructionism when it comes to my entertainment. It really robs the enjoyment out of the product. So I agree wholeheartedly with this sentiment. In fact, I would extend that "less" to "no."

[FrankL]

CinemaSins is like TV Tropes. I really dislike deconstructionism when it comes to my entertainment. It really robs the enjoyment out of the product. So I agree wholeheartedly with this sentiment. In fact, I would extend that "less" to "no."

Agree wholeheartedly with no. In fact, I had not heard of Cinema Sins until today. When I first found, TVTropes, I read a few pages and laughed. Then I realized I was starting to analyze what I was reading for enjoyment according to the pages I had read. Once I stopped reading TVTropes, I started enjoying fiction again. Others may read TVT and still enjoy their entertainment. Like Nolgroth, I don't want it deconstructed.

 

Moreover, for every trope there is a subversion. These subversions are also considered tropes by some. So you can't win. Everything is considered a trope, and thus all works are unoriginal and boring (according to some critics).

 

Tropes and cliches are in fiction because they work and let us know what to expect. Don't try to write to the trope. Don't try to write to avoid the trope. Just write the story the way you, the author, think it will work best. Consumers will decide if they like the way you handled it or not.

[Clonus]

Then we really shouldn't be going to a character created in 1959.

 

A _derivative_ character created in 1959.  

[Clonus]

Agree wholeheartedly with no. In fact, I had not heard of Cinema Sins until today. When I first found, TVTropes, I read a few pages and laughed. Then I realized I was starting to analyze what I was reading for enjoyment according to the pages I had read. Once I stopped reading TVTropes, I started enjoying fiction again. Others may read TVT and still enjoy their entertainment. Like Nolgroth, I don't want it deconstructed.

 

Moreover, for every trope there is a subversion. These subversions are also considered tropes by some. So you can't win. Everything is considered a trope, and thus all works are unoriginal and boring (according to some critics).

 

Tropes and cliches are in fiction because they work and let us know what to expect. Don't try to write to the trope. Don't try to write to avoid the trope. Just write the story the way you, the author, think it will work best. Consumers will decide if they like the way you handled it or not.

 

Speaking as a GM I find TVtropes to be a valuable resource when trolling for ideas.  

[Narf the Mouse]

CinemaSins is like TV Tropes. I really dislike deconstructionism when it comes to my entertainment. It really robs the enjoyment out of the product. So I agree wholeheartedly with this sentiment. In fact, I would extend that "less" to "no."

Actually, CinemaSins is a lot funnier once you've watched their "Everything Wrong With CinemaSins".

[Nolgroth]

Actually, CinemaSins is a lot funnier once you've watched their "Everything Wrong With CinemaSins".

 

I actually did watch that one. I was impressed with the ability to self-analyze. But then it ruined CinemaSins for me.

[FrankL]

Speaking as a GM I find TVtropes to be a valuable resource when trolling for ideas.  

I can see using it for that. When I was writing a humor piece a couple of years ago, I used it to sharpen my lampoons and make sure I was getting the cliches in the right place. But when I'm in more serious fiction, it hindered more than helped.

[Andrew_A]

Then we really shouldn't be going to a character created in 1959.

 

Then why are the writers doing a half-@$$ed imitation of a character created in 1992?* Also, I don't believe that just because a character was created when my mom was ten, you can't do anything new with her. If I believed that, I'd never bother with anything fictional ever again. After all, fiction (especially superhero comics) deals with a lot of the same archetypes over and over again and we still find new ways to depict them, re-interpret them and see them with fresh eyes.

 

Besides, the Flash is three years older and his show is amazing. Green Arrow dates back to the forties and while I don't care for his show, you have to admit that it's a very fresh take on the character.

 

*FTR, I did like Buffy the Vampire Slayer (the show, not the character). That's why I said it's a "half-@$$ed" imitation. If you're going to copy something that works use your whole @$$.

[Andrew_A]

CinemaSins is like TV Tropes. I really dislike deconstructionism when it comes to my entertainment. It really robs the enjoyment out of the product. So I agree wholeheartedly with this sentiment. In fact, I would extend that "less" to "no."

 

Cinema Sins is fun when he's picking apart a bad movie, but when he starts going after the good movies, I think to myself, "Get a life!" (Not sure if I'm talking to him or to myself.) Oftentimes, he just gets nitpicky and annoying

 

Agree wholeheartedly with no. In fact, I had not heard of Cinema Sins until today. When I first found, TVTropes, I read a few pages and laughed. Then I realized I was starting to analyze what I was reading for enjoyment according to the pages I had read. Once I stopped reading TVTropes, I started enjoying fiction again. Others may read TVT and still enjoy their entertainment. Like Nolgroth, I don't want it deconstructed.

 

Moreover, for every trope there is a subversion. These subversions are also considered tropes by some. So you can't win. Everything is considered a trope, and thus all works are unoriginal and boring (according to some critics).

 

Tropes and cliches are in fiction because they work and let us know what to expect. Don't try to write to the trope. Don't try to write to avoid the trope. Just write the story the way you, the author, think it will work best. Consumers will decide if they like the way you handled it or not.

 

I'm different. I like to pick apart, analyze and examine fiction. I like to see what works, what doesn't, and figure out what it all really means. That doesn't rob me of my enjoyment. It enhances it. Because I have a greater appreciation of what I'm watching or reading. It also helps that I can't analyze fiction while I'm experiencing it.

 

As for my comment about cliches: There's nothing wrong with cliches (I prefer the term "tropes"), if you're using them properly. Hell, they work best if - as you said - if you use them unconsciously. The problem with the clip I just saw, is that the cliches/tropes are being used in place of any actual effort by the writers. Kara doesn't act like any women the writers might have met. She acts like "harried modern working woman #631". The DEO guy (Hank Henshaw) doesn't act like any government official from the real world, he acts like a long series of "in-over-his-head and barely competent characters from any number of action movies. That's what I object to. If I'm going to invest the time to look at a creative work, I want the creator to put some effort into it. If I can take a scene out of a TV show (or book, comic, or movie) and write everything that comes after it, then the writers, actors, producers, and directors aren't doing their jobs.

 

For contrast, look at Arrow. (Let me say up front that I do not like that show.) They also use a lot of cliched characters (at least in the first season). However, the creators of that show take them in new directions. They keep you guessing from one moment to the next. They surprise you and give you resolutions that you couldn't come up with just by reading TV Tropes.

 

Maybe the creators of Supergirl will do that and maybe they won't. Either way, I'll check out the first season. I'm going to give it a chance. That's the most they can expect from me.

 

EDIT: BTW, why is deconstructing fiction worse than looking at a still photo of a costume and judging a show based on that? I don't get it.

[Andrew_A]

Here's an article looking at the trailer. Her take is different from mine, but the author makes some very good points. I'm obviously not a woman, so she saw some things that I didn't

 

The only thing I disagree with, is her belief that the Flash is "dark and gritty". Maybe I missed something else, but I don't see it.

[Pattern Ghost]

 

 Green Arrow dates back to the forties and while I don't care for his show, you have to admit that it's a very fresh take on the character.

 

 

Arrow is Longbow Hunters + Miller Batman essentially. I like the show, but it's not really a fresh take.

 

 

What has been is what will be,

and has been done is what will be done;

and there is nothing new under the sun.

 

 

If there be nothing new, but that which is

Hath been before, how are our brains beguil'd,

Which labouring for invention bear amiss

The second burthen of a former child.

Oh that record could with a backward look,

Even of five hundred courses of the sun,

Show me your image in some antique book,

Since mind at first in character was done,

That I might see what the old world could say

To this composed wonder of your frame;

Whether we are mended, or where better they,

Or whether revolution be the same.

Oh sure I am the wits of former days,

To subjects worse have given admiring praise.

[Pattern Ghost]

For contrast, look at Arrow. (Let me say up front that I do not like that show.) They also use a lot of cliched characters (at least in the first season). However, the creators of that show take them in new directions. They keep you guessing from one moment to the next. They surprise you and give you resolutions that you couldn't come up with just by reading TV Tropes.

 

 

Exactly! Chefs don't use new ingredients when coming up with a dish, just combine them in new ways.

[Andrew_A]

Exactly! Chefs don't use new ingredients when coming up with a dish, just combine them in new ways.

 

Couldn't have said it better. (Though I tried.)

[Vondy]

What looks good on a comic page, and what looks good on a real human being on a comic page, aren't always one and the same. Look at the Flash TV show. They went with a deeper red for his costume. The bright red of the comics would look terrible. The light blue of superman's costume (or supergirl's) looks good in the comics, but on a regular person? Not so much. This is why the X-films went for leather body suits. Can you imagine the yellow and blue pajamas they wear in the comics on real people? It would be hideous. Sometimes a little darker and a little more subdued makes it, pun drum-roll please, more palatable.