Hexblades in Hero

[Michael Hopcroft]

When I obtained a copy of The Complete Warrior for D&D 3.5, I was impressed by the idea of one of the new classes called the Hexblade. Hexblades could not only fight and use limited numbers of spells one he got to mid-to-high level, but he had class abilities to inflict bad luck on their opponents causing attacks, spells and other tasks to misfire at his whim. Sadly, the general sense about the class was that it was poorly-constructed and underpowered. There was also the problem that if you do anything actually heroic you lose the benefit of the class because you had to be evil-or-neutral aligned.

 

Nonetheless, Hexblades had a lot of story potential that was never used in most games. The class was closed content so it isn't in any Pathfinder supplements, and there was a fourth edition version in the Essentials line that I have never read.

 

Still, that story potential is still there, and actually gets more interesting when you remove alignments. Hexblades make perfect anti-heroes -- always out for themselves and their own advantage, but frequently getting caught in situations where they could show that maybe they do really give a damn after all.

 

Fortunately, you can in theory build a Hero character who is very much like a Hexblade, only better-constructed and even more flexible. There's a way to model his anti-luck power, but at the moment I can't think of it (Drains on DEX or INT to make attacks and spells more difficult, since I don't believe you can Drain the Combat Values?). You'll probably have to burn a lot of points on the potent combination of luck powers, combat skill and spellcasting, so he may not be as good at either of the latter two as a character who specializes as one or the other. But he can be a troublesome opponent, especially if you don't know what you're facing and he's "tricksy" enough to continually do things you don't expect.

 

I was thinking one of the things he can do is stop a black-powder firearm from going off. even if it's properly loaded, and especially if it's pointed at (or up against!) his head....

[Narf the Mouse]

Transform to add an Unluck complication to other characters?

[Michael Hopcroft]

Transform to add an Unluck complication to other characters?

A hexblade seems to force bad die rolls -- or rather the consequences of bad die rolls. He can cause attacks on himself to be foiled by highly improbably "coincidences" (the pistoleer was sure the powder she used was dry when she loaded her gun, and it's not raining....). Mere Unluck hardly begins to describe it.

[mhd]

I thought you could Drain CVs, but can' affect them with Change Environment. For a 1:1 emulation of D&D's "Hexblade Curse" Feature you'd need both, as it also reduced damage.

 

As for the other stuff, Unluck is vague enough to justify almost anything within its special effects. Although it might be a bit annoying, as its one of those double roll powers (first you need to succeed with your transform, then the Unluck must trigger). You might get away with a pure Transform ("things into more unlucky things, as currently convenient"). The Probability Alteration power from one of the APGs sounds rather flexible, too. Force bad re-rolls on your enemies, interpret them accordingly.

[L. Marcus]

Would it be too counter-intuitive to buy Luck with the SFX of Opponent Has Bad Luck?

[IndianaJoe3]

I think we're getting hung up on converting the mechanics of the class rather than building the abilities using the Hero System. If you want to make your opponent miss, boost your DCV. If you want to make their power stop working, use Dispel or Drain. If you want to hurt them, use an attack power. 

[pinecone]

Would it be too counter-intuitive to buy Luck with the SFX of Opponent Has Bad Luck?

That would be my strategy. Also buy basic abilitys with the correct special effect...example: Combat Luck, special effect the foe is unlucky...etc...

 

Example list of powerz!

"Curse field"

Combat Luck

Power def/ Mental Def, likely both "Spells fizzle!"

Luck, special effect, only from the misfortune of others.

[dmjalund]

In 6th edition it's not a hex blade, its a 2 meter blade

[Markdoc]

The hexblade is back in Pathfinder with the Magus Hexcrafter archetype - which is exactly what I am playing in our current game. So far it's been fun, if occasionally frustrating, since being a jack of all trades means being master of none.

 

On the Hero side of the aisle you could simulate the misfortune hex multiple different ways, but some very simple approaches would be:

 

Luck (only to frustrate opponent's rolls  - I'd rate that at only -1/2, since unluck for an opponent is almost as good as luck for you).

You could also go the route of Unluck, UaA - we did this in our games, but it's definitely GM approval territory, since unluck is not a power per se,

Luck has the advantage that it is not purely combat related: your opponent could step in something nasty and slip during a chase, for example.

 

Alternatively, you could simply buy levels plus damage negation and define the outcome as "luck/unluck" - but that's much more combat focused, and it also only affects the interaction between caster and target. It does not hinder him attacking, for example the caster's friends unless you expand the levels with UBO.

 

Last of all, using transformation to add unluck to a target works very well with the concept of the evil eye - it's a curse that is attached to the target, not to the caster and will affect him regardless of who he interacts with.

 

regards, Mark

[pinecone]

The hexblade is back in Pathfinder with the Magus Hexcrafter archetype - which is exactly what I am playing in our current game. So far it's been fun, if occasionally frustrating, since being a jack of all trades means being master of none.

 

On the Hero side of the aisle you could simulate the misfortune hex multiple different ways, but some very simple approaches would be:

 

Luck (only to frustrate opponent's rolls  - I'd rate that at only -1/2, since unluck for an opponent is almost as good as luck for you).

You could also go the route of Unluck, UaA - we did this in our games, but it's definitely GM approval territory, since unluck is not a power per se,

Luck has the advantage that it is not purely combat related: your opponent could step in something nasty and slip during a chase, for example.

 

Alternatively, you could simply buy levels plus damage negation and define the outcome as "luck/unluck" - but that's much more combat focused, and it also only affects the interaction between caster and target. It does not hinder him attacking, for example the caster's friends unless you expand the levels with UBO.

 

Last of all, using transformation to add unluck to a target works very well with the concept of the evil eye - it's a curse that is attached to the target, not to the caster and will affect him regardless of who he interacts with.

 

regards, Mark

Interesting, I thought the Pathfinder equivalent was Witch, with some fighty options...maybe a hag blood line for extra Hex power. I'll poke around and fine Hex crafter.

[assault]

And now I remember why I identify with "Old School" D&D, despite the grognard w@nkerishness associated with it.

[Markdoc]

Interesting, I thought the Pathfinder equivalent was Witch, with some fighty options...maybe a hag blood line for extra Hex power. I'll poke around and fine Hex crafter.

 

Hexcrafter is a magus archetype: Magus is Pathfinder's Gish-in-a-can class, combining some spellcasting ability with some martial ability and a few unique options, such as the ability to cast+attack, magically enhance their weapon, etc.It's actually a pretty good class, with opinion evenly divided as to whether it's way over-powered or just too weak.

 

Hexcrafter is a magus who trades out some flexibility with spells in exchange for access to a limited number of witch hexes.

 

cheers, Mark

[pinecone]

Hexcrafter is a magus archetype: Magus is Pathfinder's Gish-in-a-can class, combining some spellcasting ability with some martial ability and a few unique options, such as the ability to cast+attack, magically enhance their weapon, etc.It's actually a pretty good class, with opinion evenly divided as to whether it's way over-powered or just too weak.

 

Hexcrafter is a magus who trades out some flexibility with spells in exchange for access to a limited number of witch hexes.

 

cheers, Mark

Cool! Thanks.

[Zephrosyne]

Have you considered using the Probability Alteration power in Advanced Player's Guide 2?  It can directly alter dice rolls as an action that takes no time.

[Lucius]

In 6th edition it's not a hex blade, its a 2 meter blade

What if I Megascale that hexblade?

 

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary asks what the hex I'm doing

[mhd]

What if I Megascale that hexblade?

Kevin Siembieda will sue you?

[Lucius]

Kevin Siembieda will sue you?

Who hasn't he sued?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Palindromedary Enterprises settled out of court.

[Zephrosyne]

What if I Megascale that hexblade?

 

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary asks what the hex I'm doing

Then I would ask "what the hell are you doing with Gin Ichimaru's zanpaktuto?"

[JasonPacker]

The build would demand a significant level of trust in your GM, but I could see a small VPP with all the "uncontrollable" options turned on. No control over what the powers are, no control over when they're used. This would allow the GM to give you an appropriate power at a moments notice - be it luck, dispel, added CVs, damage negation, transform, etc.

[Lucius]

The build would demand a significant level of trust in your GM, but I could see a small VPP with all the "uncontrollable" options turned on. No control over what the powers are, no control over when they're used. This would allow the GM to give you an appropriate power at a moments notice - be it luck, dispel, added CVs, damage negation, transform, etc.

Normally we think of a Variable Power Pool as calling for trust in the player....

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary asks me "what the hex are you doing with Gin Ichimaru's zanpaktuto?"

[Old Man]

...which is why we instantly ban them! 

[Lucius]

...which is why we instantly ban them! 

But Jason Packer proposed one that works the other way around...it calls for the player to trust the person running the game.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary says, In G.O.D. We Trust

[Michael Hopcroft]

Old Man, do you really refuse all player builds that include Variable Power Pools?

 

Whether you trust the GM with control of one of your powers depends on what style of game you are playing. If you expect the GM to screw you over once in a while, usually at the worst possible time, this might not be your framework build of choice.

[assault]

From The Fortress Unvanquishable, Save for Sacnoth:

 

"Then the magician of the village went up into the tower of his house, and all night long those whom fear kept awake could see his window high up in the night glowing softly alone. The next day, when the twilight was far gone and night was gathering fast, the magician went away to the forest's edge, and uttered there the spell that he had made. And the spell was a compulsive, terrible thing, having a power over evil dreams and over spirits of ill; for it was a verse of forty lines in many languages, both living and dead, and had in it the word wherewith the people of the plains are wont to curse their camels, and the shout wherewith the whalers of the north lure the whales shoreward to be killed, and a word that causes elephants to trumpet; and every one of the forty lines closed with a rhyme for "wasp"."

 

That's a VPP. With skill rolls, and the lines didn't actually rhyme with "wasp", but with another four letter word.