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How Much Supernatural/Magic/Psychic Abilities in the Raider-verse?

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In the Expanded Raider-verse, what level of paranormal anything can be reached before it becomes Call of Cthulhu?

 

Relics/artifacts work - a given.

 

Fetish Magic - see the voodoo doll in the novelization of Temple of Doom.

 

Potent Mesmerism - see the voodoo prince in the novelization of Temple of Doom.

 

Classic Wicca - the original novel Indiana Jones and the White Witch

 

ESP - see Colonel Doctor Irina Spalko in the novelization of Crystal Skull.

 

 

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It's been a while since I've read the canon. I was hoping to pick collective brains because I'm am loath, and most likely unable, to plow through the material again.

 

If enough people post enough memory fragments, I may be able to piece the Raiders EU back together in my mind. It's based on the same theory postulating that a thousand monkeys with a thousand typewriters will sooner or later produce the works of Shakespeare.

 

First collective piece: Indiana Jones and The Peril at Delphi. Thanks. It suggests Greek Mystery Cults.

 

And away we go.

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Fraid your using stuff I don't know. Only book I read was Indiana Jones and The Peril at Delphi. But as I recall the voodoo doll thing was actually in the movie not just the book.

It's a personal thing. The only sub-canon material is the movie sequels. Althought the novelazations of the movies are still canon. Use the material from the lesser movies with care and caveats

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In the Expanded Raider-verse, what level of paranormal anything can be reached before it becomes Call of Cthulhu?

 

 

 

That's Cthulhu's Call to make; you'll have to ask Him.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

What level of palindromedary can be reached before it's a Lucius Alexander tagline?

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Do you remeber any specific monsters?

No. You asked what level would it be to lift such a setting into the Call of Chtulu. Raiders/Indiana Jones tends to be built around artifact magic, but it doesn't seem to be all that common in the pulp/modern era where anyone could do it out of a book. We don't really see anything that could be construed as a shoggoth, or a night gaunt.

 

CES 

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No. You asked what level would it be to lift such a setting into the Call of Chtulu. Raiders/Indiana Jones tends to be built around artifact magic, but it doesn't seem to be all that common in the pulp/modern era where anyone could do it out of a book. We don't really see anything that could be construed as a shoggoth, or a night gaunt.

 

CES

What do you call the things that came out of the Ark?

 

In the Expanded Raider-verse, what level of paranormal anything can be reached before it becomes Call of Cthulhu?

As far as I can tell it doesn't have to "become" Call of Cthulhu, it already IS Call of Cthulhu.

 

You got your Ancient Horror tm unearthed by those who insist on meddling with things Man Was Not Meant to Know tm. You got your Thing that's so mind blastingly beyond Human comprehension that it is dangerous even to look upon. You got your Old One worshipped as a God by cultists all over the world, complete with a Name that Must Not Be Spoken.tm .You even have the ending where the Horror is not destroyed or truly defeated, but only Sealed Away tm and hidden, waiting until the Stars are Right. tm

 

A better question might be, what do you see as being in "Call of Cthulhu" that is not already present in "Raiders of the Lost Ark?" If there is an answer to that question, then that's your answer - don't include that thing, and you don't have Call of Cthulhu.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Neither has a palindromedary that I've noticed.

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When they open the Arc in Raiders they don't release some vile creature that has to be banished or physically killed.  The ghostly figures are just the special effect that if you look at the arc's contents you die.  I don't really see that as equivalent to Lovecraftian horrors, which tend to stick around and kill indiscriminately.  

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The Ark was also supposed to be a divine weapon of antiquity. I'm not familiar with any works by Lovecraft in which an Elder God was carried around in a vessel and used by kings and generals to lay waste to armies on the battlefield. Moreover, I don't believe that the final scene with the Ark was intended to be interpreted as the unleashing of a Nameless Cosmic Horror From Beyond. If anything it was the Vengeance of Yaweh unleashed upon evil Men (the virtuous "heroes" at the scene, like Indy and Marian, were simply collateral damage).

 

But more important than any of that, the tone of the Indiana Jones series is utterly non-Lovecraftian.

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When they open the Arc in Raiders they don't release some vile creature that has to be banished or physically killed.

It's been a while since I saw the movie, but I don't recall a suggestion that they COULD be banished or killed. Can everything in Call of Cthulhu be banished or killed?

 

... I don't really see that as equivalent to Lovecraftian horrors, which tend to stick around and kill indiscriminately.

 

... I don't believe that the final scene with the Ark was intended to be interpreted as the unleashing of a Nameless Cosmic Horror From Beyond. If anything it was the Vengeance of Yaweh unleashed upon evil Men (the virtuous "heroes" at the scene, like Indy and Marian, were simply collateral damage).

So that answers my question as to what's in "Call of Cthulhu" but not "Raiders of the Lost Ark:" something that kills you indiscriminately as opposed to killing you for being in the wrong place at the wrong time ("collateral damage.") And in one, you might (?) have a chance to banish or physically kill (really?) the climactic threat but in the other you just have to keep your eyes shut.

 

But more important than any of that, the tone of the Indiana Jones series is utterly non-Lovecraftian.

 

Which might be another way of saying

 

The thing Raiders has that Call of Cthulhu doesn't is an effectively invulnerable protagonist.

 

So if the Original Poster is looking for the distinction, it might pay to ask how vulnerable the protagonists are. Or aren't.

 

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary, wondering about that title, concludes that the "Raiders" of the Lost Ark are those things that came out of it- nothing else much came out of it, making them "OF the Lost Ark" and what they did could be described as a Raid: strike quickly, destroy, then go back where you came from, carrying with you everything you took.

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The Ark was also supposed to be a divine weapon of antiquity.

 

But more important than any of that, the tone of the Indiana Jones series is utterly non-Lovecraftian.

 

I'm still working on the 'divine weapon' part. If memory serves, in the Yahweh-verse if Big Daddy wanted to lay down the law, He'd send some of his boys, with flaming swords, to smote the snot out of people.

 

In the Expanded Raider-verse All Myths Are True, particularly in the comics. Powerful dieties come into play, the comics understand the ramifications if 'it is all real'.

 

How much more power does it take between raising Hecate with a cult of Greek cultists and opening he door way into the Cthuhlu-verse?

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It's not about power. It's about the tone of the campaign. Indiana Jones is about a world filled with ancient wonders that can be used to accomplish things, and the ability of adventurers to save the day. Call of Chutulu is about a universe that doesn't care and things above men as we are above insects.

 

It's not about how much power is involved in raising Hecate, it's about can the hero stop it without losing his mind at some horror that he can't comprehend.

CES 

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I'm still working on the 'divine weapon' part.

That was purely an invention of the movie. The Ark's ability to make any army unstoppable was described, with an old woodcarving sketch from some hoary old tome shown just to drive home the idea.

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That was purely an invention of the movie. The Ark's ability to make any army unstoppable was described, with an old woodcarving sketch from some hoary old tome shown just to drive home the idea.

 

 

I think I recognized that etching as a panel from Gustave Doré's illustrated Bible.

 

Hoary old tomes - something else I associate with Lovecraft stories and Call of Cthulhu games.

 

I'm still working on the 'divine weapon' part. If memory serves, in the Yahweh-verse if Big Daddy wanted to lay down the law, He'd send some of his boys, with flaming swords, to smote the snot out of people.

 

In the Expanded Raider-verse All Myths Are True, particularly in the comics. Powerful dieties come into play, the comics understand the ramifications if 'it is all real'.

 

How much more power does it take between raising Hecate with a cult of Greek cultists and opening he door way into the Cthuhlu-verse?

 

So, you want a game where "All myths are true" EXCEPT the ones Lovecraft had a hand in?

 

It's not about power. It's about the tone of the campaign. Indiana Jones is about a world filled with ancient wonders that can be used to accomplish things, and the ability of adventurers to save the day. Call of Chutulu is about a universe that doesn't care and things above men as we are above insects.

 

It's not about how much power is involved in raising Hecate, it's about can the hero stop it without losing his mind at some horror that he can't comprehend.

CES 

 

csyphrett is repeating what zslane already said:

 

But more important than any of that, the tone of the Indiana Jones series is utterly non-Lovecraftian.

 

You're trying to define a difference between the universe Indiana Jones has his adventures in and the universe of Call of Cthulhu, and you're going to have trouble defining that difference because there isn't one. They could be the same universe. Professor Jones could easily be in correspondence with colleagues at Arkham University. The only important difference is in the tone of the story being told.

 

Not the "power level." Not the presence or absence some specific story telling element, whether mundane or extraordinary: either one can have hoary old tomes, crazy cultists, bullwhips, mysterious ruins with deathtraps, giant albino penguins, powerful artifacts, and terrifying monsters. The difference is in what kind of story it is.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Neither is likely to have a palindromedary but the presence or absence of one is irrelevant to the question.

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It's not about power. It's about the tone of the campaign. Indiana Jones is about a world filled with ancient wonders that can be used to accomplish things, and the ability of adventurers to save the day. Call of Chutulu is about a universe that doesn't care and things above men as we are above insects.

 

It's not about how much power is involved in raising Hecate, it's about can the hero stop it without losing his mind at some horror that he can't comprehend.

CES 

 

 

The two universes cannot co-exist or cross over. The Yahweh-verse is the trivial ranting of a trivial people of a trivial race.

 

I may be thinking more in terms of ambient supernatural.

 

In the Raider-verse the supernatural is only experienced through artifacts and relics.

 

The Arabian Nights world is a universe of miracles; the supernatural is everywhere and in all things.

 

I guess what I would take from Cthulhu is the everpresence of the unknown the heroes are heading to.

 

When would the supernatural in the Raider-verse become the moral equivalent of the supernatural  Cthulhu-verse? 

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So, you want a game where "All myths are true" EXCEPT the ones Lovecraft had a hand in?

 

 

csyphrett is repeating what zslane already said:

 

 

You're trying to define a difference between the universe Indiana Jones has his adventures in and the universe of Call of Cthulhu, and you're going to have trouble defining that difference because there isn't one. They could be the same universe. Professor Jones could easily be in correspondence with colleagues at Arkham University. The only important difference is in the tone of the story being told.

 

 

 

It's an order of magnitude - in the Yehweh-verse Cthulhu is not stranger than we imagine it is stranger than we can imagine. We couldn't see the forest for the trees.

 

 

Repeating is a classic literary device.

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