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Nero Grimes

How Much Supernatural/Magic/Psychic Abilities in the Raider-verse?

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The two universes cannot co-exist or cross over. The Yahweh-verse is the trivial ranting of a trivial people of a trivial race.

 

 

When would the supernatural in the Raider-verse become the moral equivalent of the supernatural  Cthulhu-verse? 

Never.

CES

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When would the supernatural in the Raider-verse become the moral equivalent of the supernatural  Cthulhu-verse? 

 

When the "Raider-verse" no longer has a protagonist who can ride out a nuclear explosion in a refrigerator. At which point, of course, it's no longer the "Raider verse."

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary observes that, brilliant or not, your ideas might sound better - or read better anyway - if you proofread them

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When the "Raider-verse" no longer has a protagonist who can ride out a nuclear explosion in a refrigerator. At which point, of course, it's no longer the "Raider verse."

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary observes that, brilliant or not, your ideas might sound better - or read better anyway - if you proofread them

 

That is so unworthy of you.

 

The 'spielberg factor' - Early Onset Artistic Hubris - is why none of the Lesser Movies are not fully canon. 

 

Atomic Fridge is the new Jump the Shark.

 

Fixing Indiana Jones 4 short of a Lucas/Spielberg murder/suicide pact. (shameless blog plug)

 

Fixing Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull  (A shortcut to Catholic Skywalker's post).

 

 

The whole Indy/Cthulhu thing started while I was surfing CoC pages hunting for pulp stuff.

 

The mash up looked good on paper.

 

I guess Indy will be at best be thwarting earth shattering powers rather than cosmos crushing Evil. I will probably keep some of the tone and temperament. More Night of the Demon than The Dunwich Horror.

 

I still have work to do on the sub-genres Treasure Hunting, Lost Worlds, and Weird Menace: Super Science.

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I seem to recall something about Indy jumping out of an aircraft using a life raft to survive, too. That was in one of the good films.

 

Temple of Doom. My friend Barry did an edit from his laser disk. He cut out almost all of Willie scenes, dialed back Short Round, and pared down the rollercoster mine car chase. It moves much faster.

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Aside from the eastern cultists and their "exotic majicks", there's nothing in Temple of Doom worth keeping in the Raiders canon, IMO. And nothing whatsoever from Crystal Skull worth keeping. In my household, only Raiders and Last Crusade are canon. The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles are iffy at best.

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Aside from the eastern cultists and their "exotic majicks", there's nothing in Temple of Doom worth keeping in the Raiders canon, IMO. And nothing whatsoever from Crystal Skull worth keeping. In my household, only Raiders and Last Crusade are canon. The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles are iffy at best.

 

 

For me, the Sloppy Seconds from Daddy keeps Last Crusade out of the canon. And on a personal note: EEEEEEWWWWW!!!!

 

There are some interesting 'Fan Edits' of the Lesser Movies, Crystal Skull included.

While none of theLesser Movies are canon, the novelazations are, so that the choice bits can be taken from them.

 

A friend and I 'fan proofed' the Crystal Skull novelazation. In the book, Cate Blanchett's charatcer, Colonel Doctor Irina Spalko, had more defined psychic abilities. From that we reverse engineered  that the Russians took control of an ancient Romany cult that breeds psychics.

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What do you call the things that came out of the Ark?

 

As far as I can tell it doesn't have to "become" Call of Cthulhu, it already IS Call of Cthulhu.

 

You got your Ancient Horror tm unearthed by those who insist on meddling with things Man Was Not Meant to Know tm. You got your Thing that's so mind blastingly beyond Human comprehension that it is dangerous even to look upon. You got your Old One worshipped as a God by cultists all over the world, complete with a Name that Must Not Be Spoken.tm .You even have the ending where the Horror is not destroyed or truly defeated, but only Sealed Away tm and hidden, waiting until the Stars are Right. tm

 

A better question might be, what do you see as being in "Call of Cthulhu" that is not already present in "Raiders of the Lost Ark?" If there is an answer to that question, then that's your answer - don't include that thing, and you don't have Call of Cthulhu.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Neither has a palindromedary that I've noticed.

 

Lucius it wasn't so much of things man wasn't supposed to know but rather shouldn't you have paid better attention in class? Lets see the Nazis find the Ark which is given to Yaweh's people (whom they are doing horrible things too by the way). Apparently the Nazis didn't believe about Uzzah who touched the Ark and died. But thought that they could just do a ritual and all was fine even though they arent Israelites. Hmmm how could this go wrong?

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To the OP I think the main dividing line is that in Raider verse, Indy can come face to face with the Angel of the Lord and not go and lose some sanity.whereas if the Ark happened in CoC then Indy might have been a little crazy after the event.

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For me, the Sloppy Seconds from Daddy keeps Last Crusade out of the canon. And on a personal note: EEEEEEWWWWW!!!!

 

There are some interesting 'Fan Edits' of the Lesser Movies, Crystal Skull included.

While none of theLesser Movies are canon, the novelazations are, so that the choice bits can be taken from them.

 

A friend and I 'fan proofed' the Crystal Skull novelazation. In the book, Cate Blanchett's charatcer, Colonel Doctor Irina Spalko, had more defined psychic abilities. From that we reverse engineered  that the Russians took control of an ancient Romany cult that breeds psychics.

 

Well, sorry dude, but nobody can help you.  When you basically come out and say that you don't consider 3 of the 4 movies "canon", and you changed a bunch of things you didn't like and rewrote some of the novels and edited some of the movies to be closer to your liking, then you are no longer dealing with the same "canon" that the rest of the universe is.  Do what you want, but nobody is going to see things the way you do.

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What massey said.

 

Leaving that aside...

 

The liferaft stuff was terrible nonsense, that could be set aside because the movie was good.

 

Nuking the fridge was... somewhat worse nonsense, that couldn't be set aside because the movie was mediocre.

 

It would have been cool in a Hulk film.

 

I think it was the general mediocrity of the Crystal Skull that so clearly marks "nuking the fridge" as a "jump the shark" moment, while earlier, almost as egregious, nonsense didn't.

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Well, sorry dude, but nobody can help you. .  

 

 

Do what you want, but nobody is going to see things the way you do.

So I've been told.

 

On occasion I find alike minded crazies

 

All in all it's a simple thought experiment.

 

What would you change and what would that affect?

 

what are the implications of an aspect of the raider-verse?

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I have. Sadly, I do not recall the amazingness that is giant albino penguins.

 

The amazing thing is that even Lovecraft cannot make penguins scary. In fact, if you feed a giant penguin to a shoggoth, it just makes the shoggoth less scary.

 

Meanwhile, massey pretty much sums up the whole thread.

 

Well, sorry dude, but nobody can help you.  When you basically come out and say that you don't consider 3 of the 4 movies "canon", and you changed a bunch of things you didn't like and rewrote some of the novels and edited some of the movies to be closer to your liking, then you are no longer dealing with the same "canon" that the rest of the universe is.  Do what you want, but nobody is going to see things the way you do.

 

 

So I've been told.

 

Repeatedly, I'm sure.

 

Still, you got me thinking on the subject, so I might as well inflict that thinking on the thread.

 

Here's how the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark would look, written by Lovecraft:

 

"They opened the Ark, and it was empty. I saw them reach in and lift out nothing but a fine white sand. Belloq looked stricken, that strutting Nazi officer looked contemptuous, and I sagged in relief. But...but then it WASN'T empty, not empty at all! There was...lighting, and screams, and confusion, these ... things, came drifting up from the abyss that was the inside of that ancient and accursed relic, ghostly wraiths like drifting clouds, but flowing swiftly, they were....hungry. The wraiths were hunting. One would come face to face with a man, and that man would .... wither, or burst into flames, or flesh would melt away from the bones, or he would just scream and writhe and fall. One was slithering through the air towards where we stood bound, and it struck me: the eyes are the windows to the soul! They only destroyed a person after meeting their gaze! I cried out to Marion to shut her eyes and not look, and I shut my own tight and did not look, not even when I heard her scream, not until it had been silent for a long time. You must remember that, if you don't see them, they really CAN'T see you, they don't even know for sure that you're there. That could save your life.

 

"That's why I sent for you, you may need to know. These government fools, they're no wiser than the Nazis. I warned them how dangerous it was, advised them to seal it in concrete or lead and sink it into the sea, but they said 'it's all being taken care of' as one would say soothing words to a madman. They said they would have 'top men' look into it. If they have a clue what a 'top man' is, they will send for you, my best student and making a great name for yourself now, but don't look into it! No one should look into it! Don't look! I can never unsee the horror I saw, it is all I CAN see now. Marion must have looked, just for a moment - have you seen what they did to her? If you see her, tell her I'm so sorry. Don't look, mustn't look, if thine eyes offend thee pluck them out, don't look...."

 

He became hysterical then, and the attendants had to sedate him. It made me sick at heart to see someone I had so respected reduced to that blind and broken wretch. I visited Ms. Ravenwood too, but she does not speak, and while they assured me she could see and hear, the only trace of understanding I saw is that she silently began to weep when she heard me refer to Professor Jones by his nickname.

 

The military IS recruiting archeologists and art historians; they say it's to try to predict what those latter day barbarians will or won't loot, to try to protect what we can, and eventually, when we've beaten them back to Berlin, they'll need us to sort the plunder and put everything back where it belongs. They're big on swearing you to secrecy, but not so good at sharing things they consider secrets, but I found out Professor Jones really was mixed up with some kind of cloak and dagger business in Egypt, and something strange happened on an island the Germans were using as a secret base. The doctors have a theory that those goose stepping devils did unspeakable things to Ms. Ravenwood and made Professor Jones watch, then destroyed his eyes so that her suffering would be the last thing he saw, and this fantasy of spooks coming from an old box is something his mind uses to protect itself from a real memory that's even worse. Such an experience might break anyone! I cannot tell you how passionately I have come to hate Nazis; I wish I could personally kill them all, but I am told I can do more for our cause as a scholar than as a warrior. There is more I dare not say, lest they charge me with treason if this letter comes to light! They said that they have something very special for me to look into. I look forward to it.

Lucius Alexander

 

If I described it as "a two headed camel" that would not capture the full horror of it, for you would think of the kind of bicephaly that is not an uncommon deformity, though such things are usually born dead or die soon. And it was not deformed, it was as well formed in its way as an earthly creature with its own logical symmetry - oh, so symmetrical it was! - but it was a symmetry impossible to terrestrial life, utterly alien and repellent to me. The old sorcerer called it palindromedary, "that which runs each way alike." One could only approach it from the front, it was literally impossible to come at it from behind. Nothing could be behind it, for it had no behind to be!

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I had always thought crickets to be loathsome insects. I wished the constant chirping would cease. While I awaited the old carver's return, and to distract myself from the noise of the crawling thing loose in his workship, I diverted myself with viewing the products of his craft. One item in particular, seated on a chair that was surely made for it, at first caught my attention and then repelled it. It was a little manikin with a comically long nose, skillfully put together, painted, and dressed quaintly in garments that might have come right off of the youngest and smallest of the lads I had seen at play in the winding streets of this ancient village. It was so lifelike I found it disturbing, so I turned to look at the old man's other stock, and it suddenly seemed that the song of the crawler grew even louder. Absurdly, I thought I heard words in its endless repetition, be good, be good, be good. Despite the old man's superstitious admonition I thought of crushing the filthy insect and turned towards the sound, and found my eyes meeting a painted pair of eyes that were not nearly lifeless enough. I no longer wanted the cricket's silence. A dread had come on me that this dull and banal song was the only thing that stood between myself and some terrible fate. My heartbeat was near as loud now as the chirping, for the wooden thing's face had not been turned towards me a moment ago. It had moved when my back was turned.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Copyright Palindromedary Enterprises

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I think it was Robot Chicken that had the vignette where Pinnochio is shivering by a campfire in the woods. He says "I don't know where Geppetto's body is buried". His nose grows, he breaks it off and throws it on the fire.

 

Neither is as creepy as the Roberto Benigni 2002 Pinnochio.

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I'm going to table the nature of psychic powers for now; defaulting to Steven's take in Pulp Hero and Chapter 13 in D6 Adventure. What I have gleaned from the articles at the BRP forums has been interesting; however,not of use in this instance.

 

Perhaps a more useful metric would be the nature and number of beasties, which go bump in the night, Indy goes toe to toe with.

 

I'm lifting from the amazing Legendary Quest stuff. http://legendaryquest.netfirms.com/Download.htm

 

Gargoyles - maybe

 

Vamps - no, no, no! Vamps maybe canon, but logic and reason have never slowed me before. Why start now?

 

Zombies - as the traditional minions voodoo priests or priestesses.

 

Were-beasts - most cultures have a variation of were-something. I tried to run a game based on the movie Brotherhood of the Wolf.

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The comics were chock-a-block with them, the original novels had a few. Humans were the main baddies but every now and then Indy would have to evade or subdue a special guest star.

 

Besides, occasionally throwing a beastie at players will keep them o their toes.

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