Jump to content

Rewards For Worship


Steve

Recommended Posts

I was recently pondering the game effects of deities in a game world. What benefits does worship provide?

 

If in good standing with the temple of a god providing healing, maybe you get a discount on healing magic or a blessing, but what else could you get?

 

Why would a character devote some of their time to worship service, making offerings, etc, when they could be out battling evil?

 

Then it hit me.

 

The reward could be a bonus pool of Heroic Action Points, filled and refilled by performing worship and obeisance to your character's deity, sacrificing money and/or magic items, etc. It would be like a form of Brownie Points a character could earn and re-earn, and they could spend it on in-game bonuses and lucky events. By rewarding players for participating in the worship of their character's deity, a tangible in-game benefit is received.

 

Evil clerics and other bad guys can get in on this action too, giving them a way to survive and return to annoy the heroes at a later date.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Given the usual divine structures of fantasy universes, I think that's a bit bland and economically unsound. You're probably better off with a RuneQuest-like cult structure, where you get big, one-time spell effects. Gives you a reason to chose that particular religion and to come back regularly. First one is free, of course.

 

I'm not a big fan of evident divine influence in general, though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For the last game I ran, I actually lifted a good amount of the ”feel” of cult membership from Runequest, although I transposed it to a more traditional pseudomedieval setting. The benefits the PCs  got from worship are not based in game mechanics, but come from the kind of things that people got out of real worship – membership in a group, group assistance, cultural identity, etc.

 

Obviously this works in games as well as real life, since the players happily gave up a chunk of their PCs income and time to fulfill religious duties in exchange for cult membership in a temple. This involved paying dues to the temple, and accepting jobs on the temple’s behalf. In return they got help from the cult’s priests and occasionally other cult members. That could be healing, for example J, or a message magically sent cross-country to another cult shrine, but it could also be something as mundane as a letter of conduct enabling them to get assistance when they arrived in a distant town, or the offer of accommodation and a boat ride from a fellow cult member. This could be important – access to the cults historic archives let them puzzle out the location of a ruined and forgotten  temple they were seeking, for example.

 

In addition – and perhaps most importantly for the PCs, being a member in good standing of a cult (and especially of the cult’s inner circles) gave access to cult secrets. This could include learning special spells that otherwise were not otherwise accessible to PCs (and to most NPCs for that matter) to things like special magical artifacts belonging to the cult or even mundane (but secret) knowledge – like for example ,the names of cult agents in official positions, access to ancient maps or books of lore, etc. In return, those higher in the cult were expected to work for the cult (for PCs, this usually meant dangerous adventures). But it could also be things like civic duties: the team’s healer was expected to spend some time in the temple healing as he rose in the temple hierarchy, two of the warrior types took up positions in the city guard (and one eventually rose to become Captain of the local militia). Another ended up becoming a senior cult priest, so spent time leading ceremonies, participating in temple and city council meetings, etc. All were expected to pay a tithe to the temple, and they also handed over some of their magical goodies to the cult, where appropriate. In return, they were considered local heroes and could call – to some extent – on temple and city resources. Importantly, as the game progressed, that also gave them some degree of protection from their enemies: this wasn’t just some bunch of no-account armed thugs who could be arrested or harassed with impunity, but important political figures.

 

Finally, there was also the suggestion that diligent cult membership might lead to divine intervention or favour behind the scenes – certainly the PCs, from time to time were unusually lucky (the way that PCs often are) J In fact, I didn’t actually manipulate the dice or other things, but the PCs did from time to time bump into spirits or other magical beings who were friendly to one cult or other, and this gave them opportunities that they otherwise would have lacked.

 

cheers, Mark

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree that membership in a cult has benefits, and the Membership Perk would apply here. I also agree that being able to learn rare magic is a reason to be in good standing.

 

However, I was trying to think of benefits for that warrior who is faithful to the war god. How can I give him a benefit? Or a thief who serves a god of thieves? HAPs seem like a good way to reward a PC who would not otherwise get a benefit other than healing from a cult.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In real life I can say here are the benefits I have either received or given by being a member of a religious community:

  • Common belief system
  • Mutual support
  • Sense of belonging
  • A way to express good works as a group which usually brings about greater good than I can do as an individual
  • Psychological, spiritual, physical, and monetary support
  • A place of refuge during times of trouble
  • Healing
  • Community
  • Overcome injustice within a society

In gaming terms here are somethings that come to mind:

  • Faced with overwhelming odds, a priest or warrior for a particular god might turn to other believers to raise enough people to fight against their mutual enemy
  • A place to recuperate after a battle.  Including cleansing rituals for warriors who have returned from battle to help them regain some of their humanity after killing other sentient beings.
  • Healing - actual healing ("Lets see I got hit 3x, 2 body, 4 body and 5 body" and the priest tries to heal each wound one at a time); blessing; spiritual;psychological
  • Refugees from a battle are taken to a church after the battle by a PC who is a member of that religious group
  • Evil ruler who is someone that can't be killed by the players but needs to be removed starts to help a group, organized by religious groups, to protest, boycott and other acts of disobedience to bring about change.

My favorite character to play is named Eltrois and he is a warrior-priest.  There have been a number of incarnations of this character over the years :-).  In his current incarnation he is a member of the Hell Reavers.  He goes on missions for his order.  Sometimes he brings the order interesting things that he finds.  He has a place to stay whenever he is 'home'.  He never has to worry about mundane equipment he can just go to the armory.  The GM and I came up with a back story where one of Eltrois' buddies got a woman pregnant and the friend was sent away to remote outpost.  Eltrois makes sure the woman and her son have what they need every month.  When home he goes with his brothers' in arms and they share rousing stories, drink and eat because tomorrow they may fight demons in hell.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was recently pondering the game effects of deities in a game world. What benefits does worship provide?

 

If in good standing with the temple of a god providing healing, maybe you get a discount on healing magic or a blessing, but what else could you get?

 

Why would a character devote some of their time to worship service, making offerings, etc, when they could be out battling evil?

 

Then it hit me.

 

The reward could be a bonus pool of Heroic Action Points, filled and refilled by performing worship and obeisance to your character's deity, sacrificing money and/or magic items, etc. It would be like a form of Brownie Points a character could earn and re-earn, and they could spend it on in-game bonuses and lucky events. By rewarding players for participating in the worship of their character's deity, a tangible in-game benefit is received.

 

Evil clerics and other bad guys can get in on this action too, giving them a way to survive and return to annoy the heroes at a later date.

It may be a little cynical, but I tend to view relegions like an extortion racket. Most real world religions tend to go on and on about the dire effects of not joining, donating, etc...

 

So fail to honor the death gawd, and a Zombie will eat your face! :shock:  :rofl:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, I meant to include Mental and Power Defense as stuff you could get.

 

I'd do it as the basic "Amulet of St Somebody", which protects its wearer from Evil Influences, but only if he or she is a True Believer. And as GM, I'm going to want to see evidence that she or he is a True Believer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you go to the Temple and get a spell you can only use once and then it goes away, do you even bother to write up the spell and determine how many points it is?

 

Could membership in a cult at this level require you to set points aside for this specific purpose -- as a slot for a single power that, once that power is used and goes away, is set aside until you get back and get your next spell?

 

Can this ability be used by rank-and-file members of the cult, or only by the professional or highest-ranking priests?

 

Is it possible for the cult of a "false god", or a god that doesn't really exist, to grant powers like this to its worshipers by the sheer force of belief?

 

And what happens when you believe you have a power like this but don't? Where the people who "grant" it might genuinely believe in what they're doing, are outright charlatans, or both?

 

Martina%20Sells_zpss5ztaliy.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I remember in early AD&D the amusing notion that one could get low level clerical spells through worship alone, no deity required. Admittedly, you could only get up to 2nd level spells, but that was theologically intriguing.

If there is a lot of cosmic energy floating around that human beings can only control and manipulate through the sort of thought process that can be described as "worship", then you have a world with a plethora of powered priesthoods but no actual gods.

 

It is also possible in such an environment that sorcerers/wizards are people who have found another way to tap into that force, and would often describe themselves as atheists. They could despise the priests for the way priesthoods restrict the behavior of its members, and for fawning over and "begging for scraps" from non-existent deities. The priests see the sorcerers as having been led astray by false gods, and needing to be returned to the fold of the "True God/Gods" -- and since there a lot more priests than sorcerers it can get quite troublesome.

 

Since there's no empirical way to determine who's right, non-magic-using people will likely be mainly confused. It could be that not wanting anything to do with either side is a reason to not learn magic even if it's something anyone can do if they want to learn how.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you go to the Temple and get a spell you can only use once and then it goes away, do you even bother to write up the spell and determine how many points it is?

 

Could membership in a cult at this level require you to set points aside for this specific purpose -- as a slot for a single power that, once that power is used and goes away, is set aside until you get back and get your next spell?

 

Can this ability be used by rank-and-file members of the cult, or only by the professional or highest-ranking priests?

You're describing the way Divine Magic worked in Runequest

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The Cult of the Palindromedary would have Beast Form Rune and Harmony Rune 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you go to the Temple and get a spell you can only use once and then it goes away, do you even bother to write up the spell and determine how many points it is?

 

Could membership in a cult at this level require you to set points aside for this specific purpose -- as a slot for a single power that, once that power is used and goes away, is set aside until you get back and get your next spell?

 

Can this ability be used by rank-and-file members of the cult, or only by the professional or highest-ranking priests?

 

 

You're describing the way Divine Magic worked in Runequest

I'm probably describing it pretty accurately. Making it work in FH is the question though -- much of Hero is built around the players knowing what they can do and how they do it. Thus my second question.

 

Here's one way it could work: Once you're initiated into Divine Magic you get 5 points set aside to be used as your Divine Magic Slot. The priest gives you a spell, written up in such a way that it costs five active points. It's then plugged into your slot. One of the Limitations is "One Use Ever", which is a pretty substantial limitation and should bring the cost down considerably.

 

After you've cast the spell, you have the points still set aside. You can then go back to the priest and ask him for another spell.

 

As you gain experience, you can use it to gain favor in the cult. This enables you to either expand the pool to allow you a more powerful spell, buy another slot that enables you to have two spells, or both.

 

Being excommunicated, or voluntarily leaving the cult, eliminates your Divine Magic Slots.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here's one way it could work: Once you're initiated into Divine Magic you get 5 points set aside to be used as your Divine Magic Slot. The priest gives you a spell, written up in such a way that it costs five active points. It's then plugged into your slot. One of the Limitations is "One Use Ever", which is a pretty substantial limitation and should bring the cost down considerably.

 

After you've cast the spell, you have the points still set aside. You can then go back to the priest and ask him for another spell.

 

A more orthodox build would be to use a small VPP, but it would probably cost more than 5 points.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A more orthodox build would be to use a small VPP, but it would probably cost more than 5 points.

 

Ok... six points.

 

6 Religious Favor:  Variable Power Pool, 5 base + 15 control cost,  (13 Active Points); Must See Priest To Change Power (-3/4), Priest Controls Choice Of Power (-1/2); all slots 1 Charge (Recovers Under Limited Circumstances; Must see priest to recover; -2 1/2)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Ok... six points.

 

6 Religious Favor:  Variable Power Pool, 5 base + 15 control cost,  (13 Active Points); Must See Priest To Change Power (-3/4), Priest Controls Choice Of Power (-1/2); all slots 1 Charge (Recovers Under Limited Circumstances; Must see priest to recover; -2 1/2)

That won't give you anything particularly potent. And since you can only cast the spell once before going back to the temple. you need to save it for the right moment (and hope you won't need it later). You\ll need other abilities to get by.

 

The whole thing could be a quest. "All right, Sister Luna, I have granted you this Spell of Healing. The King of Fatavia, who is the only one who can broker a peace in this great war being waged, is currently deathly ill in a besieged tower. Only this spell can save him. You must get into that tower and cast the spell. Hurry! Time is running out! May Bastet guide your way, my sister!"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 11 months later...

 

However, I was trying to think of benefits for that warrior who is faithful to the war god. How can I give him a benefit? Or a thief who serves a god of thieves?

 

 

Are you looking for something they can spend points on, or goodies to give them for free?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Cult of the Palindromedary

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm more for the opposite -- I assume a Fantasy world resident with hands-on gods would automatically honor his or her appropriate god or gods. If you do not -- as, say, a flat-earth atheist -- then you get penalties instead; the bonuses for being faithful are already factored in the normal roll.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

You could factor any inherent powers into a background package and then discount the package deal to encourage players to use them. Such a package could include perk follower in good standing, ks own religion, and a few tangible bonuses. This would be offset by psy lim follows religious doctrine and obeys religious leader. Then discount it with a package bonus. The danger would be penalizing players for not wanting to have their characters to follow a religion. Also you may be creating a system where every player is a Palladian of some type.

 

If you were to reward players for their characters Faith then for balance you need to reward their lack of Faith too. In the old game "supernatural" all characters get powers except the true nonbelievers who's very presence reduces every one else's effects. The theory being their absolute disbelief in anything magical, mystical or supernatural is a tangible power that infuses the world around them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

RQ provided divine spells as charges for initiates in good standing.

They would also summon spirits for you to learn spirit magic. a fast and dirty magic system that cost personal power or mana.

Usually a Cult could only call related spirits. At a war god temple you could learn bladesharp. At healing goddess you could learn healing spells.

Temples also taught related skills. Trading god taught you how to haggle and navigate.  War gods would give weapons training.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 10 months later...

 

Blessing: (Total: 12 Active Cost, 4 Real Cost) +1 Overall (12 Active Points); 6 Charges (Recovers Under Limited Circumstances; -1 1/4), Conditional Power Cannot be out of favor with relevant Deity (-1/4), Restrainable (Only by means other than Grabs and Entangles; With curse from worshipper of opposing Deity; -1/4) (Real Cost: 4)

 

Assumes the Blessing can be renewed about once every seven days.

 

Blessing: (Total: 12 Active Cost, 6 Real Cost) +1 Overall (12 Active Points); 32 Charges (Recovers Under Limited Circumstances; -1/2), Conditional Power Cannot be out of favor with relevant Deity (-1/4), Restrainable (Only by means other than Grabs and Entangles; With curse from worshipper of opposing Deity; -1/4) (Real Cost: 6)

 

Assumes a holy day comes along only about once a month.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary invokes Janus

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

I remember in early AD&D the amusing notion that one could get low level clerical spells through worship alone, no deity required. Admittedly, you could only get up to 2nd level spells, but that was theologically intriguing.

What's so "amusing" about that?  It's no more implausible than saying you can get spells by studying some books for a few hours.

 

If a character is defined as being devoutly religious, a reward he can get for performing the proper prayers and rituals is extra experience points for good role-playing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...