Allomancy for HERO?

[Khaalis]

Hi all. Very new to the Hero System, but I'm liking what I'm seeing so far. I have 5E, 6E and the Kickstarter Fantasy Hero Complete as my current sources of material. Our intent for the system would be a mix of Dark and High Fantasy with a Large mix of elements from many fantasy genres (kind of a frankenstein universe). Thus, I am currently attempting to see how I can convert/create some of our campaign concepts via the system. As my big test, I am trying to model some of the magic systems we want.

 

Some examples are: Blood Magic (may be redundant since most magic works off END?), Divine Magic/Miralces, Furycrafting (based on the Codex alera series), Pact Magic (summoners), Psionics, Rune Magic, Scion Magic (inherited 'powers' based on bloodline), Shamanism, Sorcery (innate themed magic such as born as a Pyromancer or a Reaper), Tattoo Magic, Witchcraft/Hedge Magic, Wizardry (hermetic), etc.

 

Yes we have a wide variety of magic we like to see. None of us are real fans of the "there is only 1 type of magic in the world" settings.

So to that end, I've come looking here. I've already come across KillerShrike.com which has given me a much better grasp of how to model magic systems, but one of the concepts I'd really like to create via Hero is an adaptation of the Allomancy style of magic from the Mistborn series (and RPG). I have a few basic ideas on how to go about it using some of the examples from the killershrike.com site (such as limiting all allomancy by charges), but I was wondering if anyone had done such a system package already (before reinventing the wheel) or if any of you Hero masters had some good suggestions on how to go about building such a system?  As a noob, I feel like I'm floundering quite a bit looking at all the possible ways to build a system (such as the difference between Variable Power Pool vs. Multi-Power vs. Power Construct vs. Compound Power, etc.). I really don't know where to start to (A) make the system work like allomancy is described while staying in the Hero confines and ( making it so that the point costs remain manageable especially in allowing different levels of allomancy such as a misting (only mastery over 1 metal) or mistborn (all metals).

I appreciate and thank everyone in advance for any feedback!

 

For those that are unaware of allomancy / allomancers (mistings and mistborn):
* http://mistborn.wikia.com/wiki/Allomancy
* http://coppermind.net/wiki/Allomancy
* Mistborn RPG Free Preview PDF (70 pages) can be found here:
http://www.crafty-games.com/files/File/Mistborn_Adventure_Game_Preview-Consolidated-v2.pdf

 

PS: I've posted this in both the 6E and the Fantasy Hero threads as I wasn't sure where it would best fit or if it would draw specifically different audiences.

[SteelCold]

Unified Power and Focus Limitations. The expendable foci is to represent the metal one must ingest to "burn" or use the ability.

[bluesguy]

First of all I think you will find the Hero system is flexible enough to do anything you could possibly want to do in your campaign world.

 

First thing I would suggest doing is pick one of the metals and detail out the things you can do with it.

 

Things I am not sure about:

• "Burst of power" by burning up all their metals?
• If you are a Misting can you become a Mistborn?
• How hard would it be for a misting to learn a 2nd metal (assuming they aren't really a Mistborn)?
• If you are a Mistborn and know a single metal, how hard is it to learn the next one?  Time/Training but once you know one the next one is easier to obtain?
• If a person with these powers uses them during a combat do they get tired?  Like a fighter would get tired from swinging a sword around for 5 minutes?

 

As a help and only based on the links I am looking at Steel

 

How it works

• Steelpushing is the art of burning steel to push metals away (in a straight line) from the user's center of gravity
• The first rule is that the strength of your push is roughly proportional to your physical weight.
• The second rule is that metal that is at least partially inside a person's body cannot be affected by steel.

Things you can do

• Fly by using 'coins' placed on the ground to 'push against'
• Shoot metal objects as projectiles
• "Metal bubble to deflect incoming metal objects"

In a superhero game I would say - look at a Magneto write up.

 

Game Terms:

• Inobvious Inaccessible Focus (IIF) - You eat ingest the metal
• Expendable - the material gets used up
• Charges - Can only do it so often per IIF
• Special Effect (i.e "How it looks") - When someone uses this power it looks like telekinesis.  They are moving things.

Build approach

 

In Hero there isn't just one way to do things.  Put three experienced Hero players/GMs in a room together to build a power/character and you will get at least 5 different approaches.... This would be mine:

 

• Fly - Flight, IIF, Charges with a duration (1 turn), Must fly above metal objects on ground
• Metal Projectiles - I would provide a couple of different ones for this because there are a number of options I can think of.  The big question is how much damage does this do compared to other weapons in the campaign.  I will assume that these are as deadly as a thrown knife.
  • Single Shot - Ranged Killing Attack (1d6-1); IIF, Charges; Metal object to 'shot' (coin, nail, etc)
  • High Velocity Single Shot - RKA; AP; IIF; Charges; Sharp Metal object (Dagger; Dart); Extra time to 'cast' ("they gain quite a bit of speed over time") + 1 Phase
  • Metal Storm - RKA; Area of Effect (probably a cone makes most sense); IIF; Charges; Metal Objects (bunch of objects)
• Metal Bubble - The easiest way to do this is a barrier/wall with the limitation it only works vs. metal;  It could also be written up as deflection/reflection vs metal; damage negation vs. metal.  I would go with a barrier.

Power Frameworks

When you put powers into power frameworks you make the individual powers 'less expensive' but the aggregate of the powers might be less useful. Something that often happens is people will put their powers into a multipower - attack, defense, movement, etc - which might limit the character to being able to use only one of the powers (fixed point slots) at a time or using multiple powers but at a lower than maximum power level (variable point slots)  Variable Power Pools are 'expensive' to set up but offer the best long term option for a character with huge array of powers (that can be held together within the VPP special effect).

 

Finally the advantage of having each power outside of a framework is that unless there is something mutually exclusive about the powers you can run as many as you have END to run.

 

I will make a suggestion here.  For Mistings allow them to have a multipower with one type of metal.  If they want to learn a second type of metal they have to buy a separate multipower.  For Mistborns let them buy a VPP which they can use with any type of metal.  But have the Mistborns start with a smaller Active Point limit in their VPP than the Mistings.  Allow the Mistborns to buy up their VPP active points over time.  So a Mistborn starts out with lots of versatility but less outright power.  Mistings are specialized in one thing.  They may be more powerful in that one area than a Mistborn but they lack versatility.

 

I hope that helps.

 

If you don't own Hero Designer I highly recommend getting it.

[mhd]

I'd go with IIF (expendable, recovery depending on the metal), but whether I'd use Charges would depend on how "narrative" the game is. If they actually have to take care of their metal vials, I wouldn't use it, if it all happens in the background and you're assumed to have a certain amount of metal in you each day, then go for it.

 

Other than that, the basic setup looks like a good use of a normal Multipower setup. If you intend to stick close to the source, I'd definitely pay attention to the individual power levels, though. So you need X points to properly emulate power X'. That also means that now you've paid for this, and thus you've automatically got X points for power Y', although a mere Y points would be enough of it to do what they did in the novels. I'd recommend against going all up to 11 here.

Generally HERO costs will wreak havoc on some assumptions the players might have, as not every metal will cost the same in HERO. Jumping around by using some coins will be quite cheap, mass mind control will be prohibitely expensive, even if it's rather focused.

[Khaalis]

Thanks for the responses.

Some answers and clarifications first.

* On gaining Allomantic powers, if staying true to the source material, you either "snap" (your power awakens) into a Misting which can only burn a single metal, or a Mistborn which can burn all the metals. You are either born with the power and it awakens, or you can ingest a special and incredibly rare metal (Larasium) to become a Mistborn.

* Allomancers ingest their metal and then "burn" it to effectively activate their power reserve. Beginning to burn is instantaneous and is burned gradually, consuming the reserve. Each reserve is measured in charges based on how much is ingested (e.g. 1 Charge for 1 gram of metal, 3 charges for 1/2 ounce, etc.).  Different metals have different burn rates (e.g. Steel = 20 minutes per charge ingested).
--- Flaring: You can "flare" your metal effectively gaining 1 power rating at the cost of reducing your burn rate (e.g. Steel drops to a burn rate of 2 minutes per charge).

* Hinderances:
--- Must ingest the metal to use the powers. Vials of the metals cab be lost/destroyed.
--- You can only burn while conscious.
--- Impure metals ingested reduces Physique (physical stat = strength, agility, and endurance) and Power Rating with the metal by Half until the reserve of impure metal is burned out. Reducing Physique to 0 = unconsciousness then death within minutes if not aided.
--- Can only hold the metal reserve for up to 8 hours without burning or the metal turns toxic (lose 1 Health per unburnt charge; average Health is usually around 6).

* Many of the things you can do with your allomantic power in the RPG are done through "stunts", ways to augment or alter their abilities.


Powers & Stunts sample - Steel allomancer (aka Coinshot)
* Detect and may Push either ONE or ALL (no in between) metal objects within 100 paces (medium range). If the object is lighter than you, it moves, otherwise you move. You can control velocity (up to max 100mph)
* Common Uses: attack with small metal objects between you and the target, pushing an object held or worn by another, hovering in midair (max height usually 100 paces) or "stilt-walking' up to 25mph, redirecting the movment of a metal object.
* Common Stunts: Increase Velocity, Long Range, Multiple Targets, Reflect Ranged Attack, Steel Running

 

Now, what I think I understand from comments so far...

* Power Framework = Multipower (1 per metal? - Each metal has its own set of 'powers/spells' in the multipower.)  

* Limitations on Framework:
--- Always On + Inherent?
--- Charges (Clips [1 per Focus]; Fuel Charges) - Metal Once Ingested?
--- Focus (Inobvious, Accessible, Breakable, Universal) - the Metals for ingestion?
--- Limited Power (impure metal = 1/2 power)?
--- Side Effect (Toxicity) - No clue how to set this one up.
--- Stops working if Knocked-Out/Stunned (unconscious)
--- Trigger (1 defined set of connditions [only 1 applies at a time], No Time Action, Trigger Expires) - Burning/Flaring?
--- Unified Power (all the powers are linked)


Am I on the right track?

PS: I will look into Hero Designer. Thanks.

[Khaalis]

I'd go with IIF (expendable, recovery depending on the metal), but whether I'd use Charges would depend on how "narrative" the game is. If they actually have to take care of their metal vials, I wouldn't use it, if it all happens in the background and you're assumed to have a certain amount of metal in you each day, then go for it.

 

Other than that, the basic setup looks like a good use of a normal Multipower setup. If you intend to stick close to the source, I'd definitely pay attention to the individual power levels, though. So you need X points to properly emulate power X'. That also means that now you've paid for this, and thus you've automatically got X points for power Y', although a mere Y points would be enough of it to do what they did in the novels. I'd recommend against going all up to 11 here.

Generally HERO costs will wreak havoc on some assumptions the players might have, as not every metal will cost the same in HERO. Jumping around by using some coins will be quite cheap, mass mind control will be prohibitely expensive, even if it's rather focused.

So what is the real difference (in laymans terms) between the Focus and Charges?  Additionally, could both be used as in my earlier post (sorry for the split in posts but I'm still on probation).  In that post my first instinct on going through the book was that the Vials of Metals would be a Focus, while Charges would cover how many "charges/units" of metal imbibed?  Or is that simply too complicated and using one or the other is better?  As for the in-game use, I'd have to say our group will lean more toward the narrative as they dislike the minutia of inventory control (i.e. having to track vials carried, used, etc.). Also to be clear, you are saying that if its more Narrative then use charges?

 

Also, can you clarify the part about Power Levels? I got a bit lost with the X/Y analogy as I'm still learning terminology. So in layman's terms I understand that each Metal "power" will have a different point cost. This is why I was thinking each metal would be a different multipower (especially since most characters will only have 1 metal). However, that means that a mistborn (all metals) simply won't be feasable.  That said, I'm uncertain what you meant by paying attention to the power levels.

 

Thanks for the patience.

[WistfulD]

If you know specific spells, then I think a power framework is the best option. A single framework is entirely possible (and will give you an active point reserve capable of doing the more powerful spells).

 

As to specific points

 Power Framework = Multipower (1 per metal? - Each metal has its own set of 'powers/spells' in the multipower.)  

* Limitations on Framework:
--- Always On + Inherent? Not if they don't work when you are unconcious. No for inherent. Why would they be considered always on?
--- Charges (Clips [1 per Focus]; Fuel Charges) - Metal Once Ingested? If you can find and ingest more to get more charges in a day, expendable focus might be what you are looking for.
--- Focus (Inobvious, Accessible, Breakable, Universal) - the Metals for ingestion? Are the accessible? If you ingest them when you cast the spell, and thus can be taken away to prevent you from casting, this would be the case. Don't forget expendable.
--- Limited Power (impure metal = 1/2 power)? That's one way to do it. You could also have a base power with a less limiting focus (any metal) and also a linked additional level of power with a greater focus (pure metal).
--- Side Effect (Toxicity) - No clue how to set this one up. Probably as a complication. Perhaps Dependency (side effects, lack of dependent material causes loss of powers).
--- Stops working if Knocked-Out/Stunned (unconscious) That's the basic state of powers in the Hero system. It is simply not adding the inherent advantage.
--- Trigger (1 defined set of conditions [only 1 applies at a time], No Time Action, Trigger Expires) - Burning/Flaring? You probably don't need a trigger if consuming the metal is part of the casting, as it is a focus.
--- Unified Power (all the powers are linked) Linked is a specific term in Hero. All powers can be considered linked if they are in the same power framework (draining or supressing the framework will drain/supress them all. The question is, if someone casts suppress telekinesis (to supress your push metal ability), will it stop your stiltwalking ability as well?

Flaring is perhaps the hardest part. The Hero system is not set up to 'boost' powers very easily (for instance, it is hard to make a "temporarily enchant weapon" spell. You pretty much have to create the weapon you want as a power, and make the weapon it enchants merely a focus of opportunity). The GM might allow buying Damage Classes (and perhaps allow them to be used even with non-damaging spells) with the limitation (burns charges/expendable foci).

[StGrimblefig]

Don't forget to include a 'Power' skill in the framework for each allomantic ability. For example, a 'Steelpush' or 'Steel Allomancy' skill for steel, a 'Seeker' or 'Bronze Allomancy' skill for Bronze, etc.

 

It was discussed in the books that Mistings often had greater depth and nuance with their one ability than a Mistborn, who had eight abilities to learn to use. In other words, Mistings put more points into their one skill, while Mistborn have to spread their points across eight skills.

 

That, and when you come up with clever new ways to use the abilities, you will need a skill roll to make them work.

[mhd]

So what is the real difference (in laymans terms) between the Focus and Charges?  Additionally, could both be used as in my earlier post (sorry for the split in posts but I'm still on probation).  In that post my first instinct on going through the book was that the Vials of Metals would be a Focus, while Charges would cover how many "charges/units" of metal imbibed?  Or is that simply too complicated and using one or the other is better?  As for the in-game use, I'd have to say our group will lean more toward the narrative as they dislike the minutia of inventory control (i.e. having to track vials carried, used, etc.). Also to be clear, you are saying that if its more Narrative then use charges?

 

At its core, Focus means "you need some physical stuff to use your power" and Charges means "you can only use the power a few times per day".

Often they're independent, sometimes they work together. A D&D wizard can use his Fireball spells 3 times per day and needs some bat guano (expendable focus) for it.

To shoot someone, you need a gun as your focus and this has 1-100+ charges.

To stab someone, you need a blade as your focus. No charges there.

If my blaster superhero can go "nova" sometimes but needs a long time to recover from that, he might have "1 charge" for that, but no focus here.

 

This can get rather fuzzy, though. We're not just talking about some story background after all, but a rules-based limitation, i.e. something I get points for. If

it really isn't constraining the use of your powers than you probably shouldn't use it to make the power cheaper to buy. And whether that's worth it, really depends

on the circumstances.

 

Ammo is a good example. If you play in a superhero game where you have to pay for everything and write down your Peacemaker as having six charges, constantly

reloading that is probably abusing it. The here should buy enough ammo to last him a typical adventuring day (in this case, several "clips" of 6 charges each).

For a HK game or character, it's still a pistol, but I wouldn't buy charges at all. It still uses bullets, but that's just flavor and doesn't really impact the game and doesn't

limit the character.

 

So regarding Allomancy, you need physical reagents and they only last for a while. Whether that's relevant for the game is another question.

I mean, swallowed metal doesn't make your power use obvious and it's really hard to take away. So it's already an "Inobvious Inaccessible Focus", the cheapest kind

you've got in HERO. If being deprived of that (by bad guys or bad availability) isn't a factor, than it's not really limiting.

 

The problem with Charges is that it's usually assumed that you've got them per day. If that's okay for your campaign and getting it doesn't matter (or at least it averages

out to that number most of the time), then use it. If this highly fluctuates, it can get quite hard to estimate the cost/benefit of this. Charges can vary from a huge limitation

(I can only do this once per day and it only lasts a second) to a big advantage (I can do this rather often and it doesn't cost me any endurance).

 

Go for the past of least resistance. If it's headache to figure this out, simplify the power. If a guesstimate is good enough and it doesn't change the point costs that much

anyway, just pick X charges and wing it.

 

For a game where nobody ever actually plays out the metal acquisition, having a different number of charges might be a good way to simulate the different levels of

availability. Iron could have 10 charges, gold 5, atium 1 (or 1/week).

 

Also, can you clarify the part about Power Levels? I got a bit lost with the X/Y analogy as I'm still learning terminology. So in layman's terms I understand that each Metal "power" will have a different point cost. This is why I was thinking each metal would be a different multipower (especially since most characters will only have 1 metal). However, that means that a mistborn (all metals) simply won't be feasable.  That said, I'm uncertain what you meant by paying attention to the power levels.

Well, I think a Mistborn could just have all the metals in one Multipower. Technically no difference, although you might want to stick with a Metal == Multipower setup if you really want to make Mistborn players pay for their abilities. I agree that that would probably be too expensive, a middle ground would be allowing the Multipower for all metals, but creating a  perk for being a Mistborn.

 

I'll try to illustrate the power level problem a bit more, although I'll have to go with something more generic, as I'm at work and thus don't have my books (HERO or Mistborn):

 

Let's say you want to recreate a psionic from some TV series you liked. In that, they can manifest telekinetic "bullets" that can smash doors and throw people across the screen. They can also lift objects, but that's more straining and they're barely able to lift a person with that, certainly not throw them across a room or push a carAirGlider out of the way.

 

So you buy your multipower and size it enough to contain the push:

 

- Tarxarian MindWarrior (Multipower, 40 pt reserve) - Cost 40 pts.

  + MentalMissile: Blast 8d6 (40 active points) - Cost 4

 

Now you need to add the Tarxarian ForceLift. Going by your source, that would be Telekinesis 10 (Concentration, constant: -1/2, increased endurance x 2: -1/2), real points 7 so a Cost in your Multipower of 1.

But due to rounding, for the same cost you could get rid of one of the limitations and still just pay 1 point, even though the actor playing R'on Ka'Zeel, the Tarxarian first officer is really hamming up the grimace and uses lots of artificial sweat on the TV show.

Or due to the multipower, you could get superhuman telekinetic strength for a few measly points more (strength 25!).

 

Due to what HERO considers important and how the system adjudicates costs, you might run into something similar when you put allomantic powers in a Multipower framework. So my warning/recommendation is working from what you want to simulate and not strive for game/system efficiency. I think that's more fun in the long run.

[IndianaJoe3]

* Allomancers ingest their metal and then "burn" it to effectively activate their power reserve. Beginning to burn is instantaneous and is burned gradually, consuming the reserve. Each reserve is measured in charges based on how much is ingested (e.g. 1 Charge for 1 gram of metal, 3 charges for 1/2 ounce, etc.).  Different metals have different burn rates (e.g. Steel = 20 minutes per charge ingested).

--- Flaring: You can "flare" your metal effectively gaining 1 power rating at the cost of reducing your burn rate (e.g. Steel drops to a burn rate of 2 minutes per charge).

 

* Hinderances:

--- Must ingest the metal to use the powers. Vials of the metals cab be lost/destroyed.

--- You can only burn while conscious.

--- Impure metals ingested reduces Physique (physical stat = strength, agility, and endurance) and Power Rating with the metal by Half until the reserve of impure metal is burned out. Reducing Physique to 0 = unconsciousness then death within minutes if not aided.

--- Can only hold the metal reserve for up to 8 hours without burning or the metal turns toxic (lose 1 Health per unburnt charge; average Health is usually around 6).

 

Would an END Reserve work for this? The END in the reserve (representing metal) powers the allomancer's magic The recovery only works when the character consumes metal. The toxicity could be modeled with the Dependence complication (dependent on the character being careful enough to empty the reserve).

 

27 Allomancer's Steel Pool:  Endurance Reserve  (100 END, 5 REC) Reserve:  (29 Active Points); REC:  (4 Active Points); Limited Recovery (Character must eat steel while Recovering; -1/2), OIF Expendable (Easy to obtain new Focus; Steel to consume; -1/2)

 

-10 Metal Toxicity:  Metal Pool must be empty Takes 3d6 Damage (Very Common; 6 Hours)

[Khaalis]

Thanks again for the continued comments.

 

--- Always On + Inherent?
Not if they don't work when you are unconcious. No for inherent. Why would they be considered always on?
--- Stops working if Knocked-Out/Stunned (unconscious)
That's the basic state of powers in the Hero system. It is simply not adding the inherent advantage.

My logic was that Inherent seemed to fit as Allomancy is a "natural, inherent part of the character's being" and "cannot be Aided, Dispelled, Drained, or the like".  You are (with 1 incredibly rare exception) born a Misting/Mistborn. It is not a trained magical art or form of spellcasting, it is a biological form of "magic". I was also under the impression that Inherent required Always On but I now noticed the "if applicable" statement. So how would you list it considering the fact that allomancy should be an innate ability that can't be tampered with (Aided, Dispelled, Drained, or the like)?  My gut still says that it is inherent but not Always On, since they can't actively burn metals/use powers when unconscious.

 

--- Charges (Clips [1 per Focus]; Fuel Charges) - Metal Once Ingested?
If you can find and ingest more to get more charges in a day, expendable focus might be what you are looking for.
--- Focus (Inobvious, Accessible, Breakable, Universal) - the Metals for ingestion? Are they accessible?
If you ingest them when you cast the spell, and thus can be taken away to prevent you from casting, this would be the case. Don't forget expendable.
--- Trigger (1 defined set of conditions [only 1 applies at a time], No Time Action, Trigger Expires) - Burning/Flaring?
You probably don't need a trigger if consuming the metal is part of the casting, as it is a focus.

Ok, I think I see that this needs to be a Focus, but here is a caveat just to make sure its still what you think it shoudl be.

An allomancer can:
a) Consume metal and store it for future use (up to 8 hours, afterwhich it must be burnt or become toxic and deal the allamancer damage/illness).
Consume metal just before planning to use their powers if they don't have any consumed already or if they think they need to increase their current amount of metal reserves.

So I believe that in all cases it is basically a 1/Day Focus per Dose of metals consumed. If so then it would be as follows?

FOCUS (metal consumption 1g = 1 dose/charge/use):
* Type: Inobvious, Accessible (IAF) [-1/4]
* Mobility: Easily Moveable [0]
* Expendability: Difficult to obtain new focus [1/4 more limitation]
* Durability: Breakable [0]
* Applicability: Universal [0]

Also, I need to check if I understand how the math works.  So in affect, this Focus is a Limitation with a total modifier of -1/2?   

When Calculating costs is where I'm a bit more confused.

For Active Points, it would be "[base + Adders] x (1 + 1/2)" thus "[base + Adders] x 1.5?
For Real Cost, it would be "[Active] / (1 + 1/2)?  Thus ([base + Adders] x 1.5) / 1.5 ?

However, as to the Trigger, I think it may still apply. Simply consuming the metal does not begin the "burn" process. You have to consciously begin to use your metal reserve. Consuming the metals basically gives yourself a temporary Power Point reserve to use for your known ability. When you want to use your ability, you have to turn on the burning process.

As to Flaring, its a concept that could be dropped or modified if "power level increase" doesn't wotj in Hero. For instance Flaring might double the charges you would normally have from your consumed metals, but still reduces the duration as mentioned above.

 

--- Limited Power (impure metal = 1/2 power)?
That's one way to do it. You could also have a base power with a less limiting focus (any metal) and also a linked additional level of power with a greater focus (pure metal).

How does one go about creating a "linked additional level of power with a greater focus"? That's a new one I haven't come across yet.

 

--- Side Effect (Toxicity) - No clue how to set this one up.
Probably as a complication. Perhaps Dependency (side effects, lack of dependent material causes loss of powers).

I'm thinking...

Side Effect (Toxicity)
* Strength: Extreme [-1]
* Occurs When: specifc thing happens (ingested but unburnt metals deal dmaage after 8 hours) [1/4 less limitation]
* Affects: Character only [0]
* Modifier: Causes predfined damage [1/4 less limitation]
** Total Modifier = -1/2?

 

--- Unified Power (all the powers are linked)
Linked is a specific term in Hero. All powers can be considered linked if they are in the same power framework (draining or supressing the framework will drain/supress them all. The question is, if someone casts suppress telekinesis (to supress your push metal ability), will it stop your stiltwalking ability as well?

As mentioned above, allomancy is a power that shouldn't be able to be aided, supressed, drained, etc..

I was working off this quote:
"Unified Power typically represents constructs where the character needs multiple Powers (in the game system sense) to build all of the aspects or facets of a single power (in the campaign world sense). For example, when creating an air elemental, the GM might apply Unified Power to Desolidification, Flight, and Invisibility, since he bought them all to represent aspects of a single “Body Of Air” power."

Following this example, the Coinshot Multipower (steel allomancer) seems to fit this description. It requires multiple "powers" mechanically to make what is narratively a single power.

If really pressed, and a way was presented to stop an allomancer from using their power, it would technically affect all of the subpowers that make it up. You would in effect have to turn off their ability to burn metals. No burn = no power. So ultimately I'd have to say that yes, Unified Power would appy.

 

Don't forget to include a 'Power' skill in the framework for each allomantic ability. For example, a 'Steelpush' or 'Steel Allomancy' skill for steel, a 'Seeker' or 'Bronze Allomancy' skill for Bronze, etc.

Ok, another apparently dumb question.  How do you add Skills to a Power Framework? How does that work?
Do you mean just create "Knowledge Skill (Coinshot)"? Or do you mean make a new skill "Coinshot" and make the power "Require a Skill Roll" to use?

Thanks again for the input. This is a pretty deeply involved system to learn.

[Khaalis]

Wow, ok. People posted as I was replying. So some more comments...

 

At its core, Focus means "you need some physical stuff to use your power" and Charges means "you can only use the power a few times per day".
Often they're independent, sometimes they work together. A D&D wizard can use his Fireball spells 3 times per day and needs some bat guano (expendable focus) for it.
To shoot someone, you need a gun as your focus and this has 1-100+ charges.

Awesome. That makes so much more sense now.

 

So regarding Allomancy, you need physical reagents and they only last for a while. Whether that's relevant for the game is another question. I mean, swallowed metal doesn't make your power use obvious and it's really hard to take away. So it's already an "Inobvious Inaccessible Focus", the cheapest kind
you've got in HERO. If being deprived of that (by bad guys or bad availability) isn't a factor, than it's not really limiting.

Ok so this is where it gets tricky and I see where the Crunchy vs Narrative style matters now.  Considering the "Charges" option is volatile when the charges can change (which is true with allomancy as it all depends on how many grams of metal you consume), I can see where it won't work.

My question then comes back to the Focus. Is it Accessible or Inaccessible?  Again, I think this comes down to how you want the "system" to play in the game.  Considering that I feel that allomancers should have the possibility of Losing their Focus (vials lost, damage, pickpocketed, dropped, etc.) I would have to say Accessible.  There is the option that you could "assume" that all allomancers consume their metals every day in a safe location, but thematically that just doesn't work. With the fact that the metals can turn toxic, and the fact that the metals are often not cheap and easy to aquire, I again come back to having to ba an Accessible focus.

However, with that said, you do have a point about simplification. I'm torn as to whether or not the magic should be based on a focus the allomancer may not have access to. On the other hand, this game isn't Actually the Mistborn world, just an adaptation of the Style of magic. So your idea that using Charges instead of a focus is actually really appealing. Especially with the idea that Charges are based on the metal's rarity/cost. In fact the more I think about it, the more I think you've hit the nail on the head with that suggestion and its a LOT less headache than being a focus. It also leaves more room for differentiation of character archetypes. For instance, if we do Alchemy, THAT power framework would deffinately have to use Inobvious, Accessible, Expendable Foci.

 

{Snip} Due to what HERO considers important and how the system adjudicates costs, you might run into something similar when you put allomantic powers in a Multipower framework. So my warning/recommendation is working from what you want to simulate and not strive for game/system efficiency. I think that's more fun in the long run.

Ok, this makes more sense now. Basically, design the powers for the thematic element over trying to min/max them or else the game might break in certain areas?

Quick question on the Maths and terminology I'm not fully clear on.

"- Tarxarian MindWarrior (Multipower, 40 pt reserve) - Cost 40 pts.
  + MentalMissile: Blast 8d6 (40 active points) - Cost 4
Now you need to add the Tarxarian ForceLift. Going by your source, that would be Telekinesis 10 (Concentration, constant: -1/2, increased endurance x 2: -1/2), real points 7 so a Cost in your Multipower of 1."

Multipower Reserve = Number of CP you can use to build the multipower, correct?  How do slots work? Is a slot just the number of "powers" added to the Multipower?  So, in your example, I assume "Mental Missile: Blast" (aka Mental Blast) is 1 Fixed Slot which is why it has to be a base cost of 40 Active Points?

Another question - However, how did you come up with 8d6 damage?  As a 40 Active Point power, wouldn't that count as being only 40CP, thus at 10CP per 1d6 it would be 4d6?

 

Would an END Reserve work for this?
27 Allomancer's Steel Pool:  Endurance Reserve  (100 END, 5 REC) Reserve:  (29 Active Points); REC:  (4 Active Points); Limited Recovery (Character must eat steel while Recovering; -1/2), OIF Expendable (Easy to obtain new Focus; Steel to consume; -1/2)
-10 Metal Toxicity:  Metal Pool must be empty Takes 3d6 Damage (Very Common; 6 Hours)

Interesting to see another variation. I'm curious to see what the other experts say, as I'm not familiar enough with the system to know how this really measures up against the Charges Multipower (not to mention it will take me awhile to decipher the terms and the math to see how you did it.


Once again, thanks for all the help.

[WistfulD]

How does one go about creating a "linked additional level of power with a greater focus"? That's a new one I haven't come across yet.

 

<snip>

As mentioned above, allomancy is a power that shouldn't be able to be aided, supressed, drained, etc..

 

I was working off this quote:

"Unified Power typically represents constructs where the character needs multiple Powers (in the game system sense) to build all of the aspects or facets of a single power (in the campaign world sense). For example, when creating an air elemental, the GM might apply Unified Power to Desolidification, Flight, and Invisibility, since he bought them all to represent aspects of a single “Body Of Air” power."

 

Following this example, the Coinshot Multipower (steel allomancer) seems to fit this description. It requires multiple "powers" mechanically to make what is narratively a single power.

 

If really pressed, and a way was presented to stop an allomancer from using their power, it would technically affect all of the subpowers that make it up. You would in effect have to turn off their ability to burn metals. No burn = no power. So ultimately I'd have to say that yes, Unified Power would appy.

 

For the first one, let's use blast, since it is simple, and only the focus limitation.

Power: blast (impure metal) Blast 6D6 (30 Base Points); no advantages (30 Active Points); Focus (any metal - Inobvious, Accessible, not difficult to obtain; - 1/4) 24 Real Points.

 

Power: blast (pure metal) additional Blast 6D6 (30 Base Points); no advantages (30 Active Points); Focus (only pure metal - Inobvious, Accessible, difficult to obtain; - 1/2), Linked (to impure metal blast; -1/4) 17 Real Points.

 

That gives you a power that does 6D6 with impure metals, or 12D6 with pure metals.

 

As to the second, I don't know if you can take universal power if you have taken inherent. That sounds like trying to get the points back with a limitation that can never come into play. I'd consult the GM.

 

 

[bluesguy]

Quick question on the Maths and terminology I'm not fully clear on.

 

"- Tarxarian MindWarrior (Multipower, 40 pt reserve) - Cost 40 pts.

+ MentalMissile: Blast 8d6 (40 active points) - Cost 4

Now you need to add the Tarxarian ForceLift. Going by your source, that would be Telekinesis 10 (Concentration, constant: -1/2, increased endurance x 2: -1/2), real points 7 so a Cost in your Multipower of 1."

 

Multipower Reserve = Number of CP you can use to build the multipower, correct? How do slots work? Is a slot just the number of "powers" added to the Multipower? So, in your example, I assume "Mental Missile: Blast" (aka Mental Blast) is 1 Fixed Slot which is why it has to be a base cost of 40 Active Points?

 

Another question - However, how did you come up with 8d6 damage? As a 40 Active Point power, wouldn't that count as being only 40CP, thus at 10CP per 1d6 it would be 4d6?

 

Cost Powers END

40 Tarxarian MindWarrior: Multipower, 40-point reserve, all slots All Endurance comes from the Allomancer's Steel Pool (+0)

 

4f 1) Mental Blast 4d6 (40 Active Points) 8

4v 2) Telekinesis (25 STR) (39 Active Points); Concentration, Must Concentrate throughout use of Constant Power (1/2 DCV; -1/2), Increased Endurance Cost (x2 END; -1/2) 16

     

27 Allomancer's Steel Pool: Endurance Reserve (100 END, 5 REC) Reserve: (29 Active Points); REC: (4 Active Points); Limited Recovery (Character must eat steel while Recovering; -1/2), OIF Expendable (Easy to obtain new Focus; Metal to consume; -1/2)

0

 

Interesting to see another variation. I'm curious to see what the other experts say, as I'm not familiar enough with the system to know how this really measures up against the Charges Multipower (not to mention it will take me awhile to decipher the terms and the math to see how you did it.

I would highly recommend using the END Reserve vs. Charges.  Then the metals can be an OIF or IAF depending how easy it is to see the item in question vs. how easy it is to get at once spotted.  So if people know someone is a Mistborn or Misting, they might have a thief steal the item, once they figure out where it is at (IAF) off of the targets body.  Or the thief can see the item but has to wait until the target is unconscious to get at it.

[mhd]

Hmm, is END Reserve really something that fits well with the background?

 

Looking at the steel users, activating your power (consuming one unit of metal) gives you the following:

- Detect metal, constant

- Ability to push/pull metal, quite often until time runs out

 

So letting each push/pull/shoot cost END reserve goes against the fiction and requires book-keeping, plus you'd need some weird "only works while still points in END reserve" limitation for the constant power (which most metals have, IIRC).

 

What about Time Limit, IIF(expendable), Extra Time on the Multipower pool?

 

 

Both END Reserve and Multipower have issues with true Mistborn, by the way, if you put every metal into one pool. So another argument against that.

[SteelCold]

Link END Reserve to STUN or BODY loss so every time you burn your power you run the risk of actually being going unconscious or dying.

[Ndreare]

I would think

Continuing, Boostable Fuel Charges with recoverable would be the best way to represent what happens in the book. Also all of the powers are impressive but not world shattering so most mistborn should be in the 30 AP range unless they are first generation then perhaps 45 AP. Vin had a boost for spoiler reasons, but otherwise the powers were fairly uniform and augmented the misting's/mistborn's own natural abilities.

 

Skill will however make your metals last longer as you learn when and how to burn.

[Lucius]

Ok so this is where it gets tricky and I see where the Crunchy vs Narrative style matters now.  Considering the "Charges" option is volatile when the charges can change (which is true with allomancy as it all depends on how many grams of metal you consume), I can see where it won't work.

There IS an option under Charges for "Recoverable Charges." You can say that the way to recover the charges is to eat more metal. From the sound of it, I'd suggest looking at Continuous Charges.

 

If it's possible, once a "burn" has begun, to stop it and then restart it, use the "Fuel" modifier.

 

How long does it take to eat metal? Do these characters typically carry a number of One a Day (plus Iron) pills or whatever around with them? I'd probably do it as several Clips of One Continuous (6 hrs?) Fuel (maybe Fuel, maybe not, see above) Charge.

 

My question then comes back to the Focus. Is it Accessible or Inaccessible?  Again, I think this comes down to how you want the "system" to play in the game.  Considering that I feel that allomancers should have the possibility of Losing their Focus (vials lost, damage, pickpocketed, dropped, etc.) I would have to say Accessible.

"possibility of losing" is part of ANY Focus. If there is no chance of losing the Power, it's probably not a Focus of any kind.

 

There is the option that you could "assume" that all allomancers consume their metals every day in a safe location, but thematically that just doesn't work. With the fact that the metals can turn toxic, and the fact that the metals are often not cheap and easy to aquire, I again come back to having to ba an Accessible focus.

Toxicity, expense, and difficulty of acquisition, have nothing to do with whether something is an Accessible Focus in the Hero sense.

 

If you're standing there actively using your Power, pushing bits of metal around or whatever you do, and I am standing next to you and I decide to use the Grab maneuver to take (whatever) away from you, and I do, and now you don't have the Power - then it just might be we're talking about Accessible Focus. If what I just described can't happen - and if what gives you the power, at the time you're exercising that power, is inside your belly, I don't see how it CAN happen - then whatever else it is, it is absolutely not an Accessible Focus.

 

However, with that said, you do have a point about simplification. I'm torn as to whether or not the magic should be based on a focus the allomancer may not have access to. On the other hand, this game isn't Actually the Mistborn world, just an adaptation of the Style of magic. So your idea that using Charges instead of a focus is actually really appealing. Especially with the idea that Charges are based on the metal's rarity/cost. In fact the more I think about it, the more I think you've hit the nail on the head with that suggestion and its a LOT less headache than being a focus. It also leaves more room for differentiation of character archetypes. For instance, if we do Alchemy, THAT power framework would deffinately have to use Inobvious, Accessible, Expendable Foci.

 

 

 

 

Ok, this makes more sense now. Basically, design the powers for the thematic element over trying to min/max them or else the game might break in certain areas?

Might break, or just might come out not looking like what you were trying to model.

 

Quick question on the Maths and terminology I'm not fully clear on.

 

"- Tarxarian MindWarrior (Multipower, 40 pt reserve) - Cost 40 pts.

  + MentalMissile: Blast 8d6 (40 active points) - Cost 4

Now you need to add the Tarxarian ForceLift. Going by your source, that would be Telekinesis 10 (Concentration, constant: -1/2, increased endurance x 2: -1/2), real points 7 so a Cost in your Multipower of 1."

 

Multipower Reserve = Number of CP you can use to build the multipower, correct?  How do slots work? Is a slot just the number of "powers" added to the Multipower?

Here's how it works. First, you buy the Multipower Reserve, or Multipower Pool. It's possible to put Modifiers on that cost, but let's not get that complicated right now. So, you spend 40 pts, and you have a 40 pt Multipower.

 

That means that at any given time, you may have up to 40 Active Points of Powers operating in the Multipower. Every phase, you "allocate" those 40 pts to the various "slots" available. If you have 4 slots, you might put all 40 pts in one, and the others don't work at all. Or put 5 pts in one, 3 in another, 12 in yet another, and 20 pts in the last. What you CAN'T do is put 25 in one and 20 in another, or 15 in each, or any combination that goes over 40. With me so far?

 

Now you buy the "slots" which is to say, specific Powers that are part of the Multipower. I'm going to be as abstract as possible because I find that makes things clearer, but if you don't get something, I can try again with more specific examples.

 

FIRST SLOT I'll call Power A. I want a big power. I'll give it 50 Active Points. Oops, I can't do that, because I have only 40 pts in the Reserve. I either make the Multipower "bigger" or restrict this slot to 40 pts. That 40 pts has to include any Adders or Advantages, too; I can't take a 40 pt Power and put a +1/4 Advantage on it and fit it into this Multipower.

 

Now I put a Limitation on it: Increased END Cost X10, Only in Certain Circumstances. That's a -3 Limitation. If this were a power bought outside a Multipower, the cost would now be Active Points / (1+Limitation Value) so in this case, it's

 

40/4 = 10 Real Points.

 

(Yeah, even though we annotate Limitations with a minus sign, we treat them as positive numbers when doing the math. But the minus sign helps us tell at a glance what's an Advantage and what's a Limitation.)

 

If you don't understand how the Real Cost is 10, I'll go over it again.

 

But since this is a slot in a Multipower, there's one more step. I have to decide if it's a "Fixed" slot or a "Variable" slot. If it's Fixed, I divide that Real Cost by 10 to get the final cost the character pays; if it's Variable, I divide by 5.

 

Fixed means that every single time I use that power, it takes up its entire value out of the Multipower. So I don't have the option of putting 20 pts into it and using the other 20 on other slots. It will only cost me 1 pt, but I'm losing some of the flexibility I described earlier in explaining how Multipowers usually work.

 

What if I don't WANT to use it at full power? Remember, when that Increased END cost kicks it, it costs me 40 END each phase! I CAN decide to spend, say, 5 END and only get 5 pts worth of the ability, it will only do what 5 Active Points worth of that Power can do - but it still eats up all 40 pts of the Multipower!

 

Variable means I have that full flexibility and can put from 0 to 40 pts into the ability at any given time. That would cost 2 pts.

 

SECOND SLOT I'll call Power B. I only want 20 pts this time, and I'll take the situational Increased END Cost at X4 for a Limitation of -1. That means normal Real Cost would be 10, and it costs 1 pt as a Fixed slot or 2 as a Variable. I take it as Fixed.

 

Because it's a 20 pt Fixed it will always take up either 0 or 20 pts from the Multipower's available points. So again, even if I'm saving END or have another reason to use it at less than full power, it still eats up 20 from my pool of available Multipower points.

 

THIRD SLOT I'll call Power C. I want 40 pts, no Limitations, and it's Variable. That costs 8 pts.

 

Now if I'm using Power A, I can't use B or C at all. If I'm using Power B, I can use Power C at up to 20 pts. If I use C at more than 20 pts, I can't use A or B at all. If I buy more slots, obviously, I get still more options.

 

 

So, in your example, I assume "Mental Missile: Blast" (aka Mental Blast)

No. Not Mental Blast. Just Blast. Those are two separate Powers. This ability would use OCV vs DCV and probably go against Physical Defense. It's a "mental missile" I suppose because the character uses their mind to create a projectile of psionic force or something, but the attack is resolved like any other Blast and it's bought that way too.

 

(mhd, sorry if I seem to be speaking for you, but I'm pretty sure I understand you here, and that Khaalis doesn't.)

 

is 1 Fixed Slot which is why it has to be a base cost of 40 Active Points?

As I explained above, a Fixed slot means that every time it is used, it takes up its full value of the Multipower reserve. You could have a 90 pts Multipower with a 10 pt Fixed slot.

 

Another question - However, how did you come up with 8d6 damage?  As a 40 Active Point power, wouldn't that count as being only 40CP, thus at 10CP per 1d6 it would be 4d6?

It's a Blast, so 40 pts buys 8d6. If it were a Mental Blast, 40 pts would by 4d6.

 

Interesting to see another variation. I'm curious to see what the other experts say, as I'm not familiar enough with the system to know how this really measures up against the Charges Multipower (not to mention it will take me awhile to decipher the terms and the math to see how you did it.

 

 

Once again, thanks for all the help.

Some further thoughts:

 

On "Flaring;" if you go with Charges, you can make them Boostable, but that is unreliable. I suggest instead using an AID Power, Self Only, with Side Effects: Consumes the metal faster.

 

I would consider using Only in Alternate ID as a Limitation. The differene between "burning" and "not burning" isn't what we normally think of as a change of form, but it's definitely a change of state between "can't use powers now" and "can use powers now." The description of the Limitation in the rules mentiones "...difficulties or ways to prevent him from changing" and that sounds right. Also, Only in Alternate ID is often good for things that look sort of like a Focus but don't seem as if they'd act like a Focus in play, and that seems to be the case here.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Fixed Palindromedary Slot

[Khaalis]

Thanks Lucius. This is a very detailed response and good peice of education material.


Ok, so we're back to pretty much where I had originally started with Charges but instead of what I had initially thought (Clips and Fuel) between you and MHD it looks like the suggestion is this  (using Iron for this example).

To represent the metals once ingested into the body.

* CHARGES (Iron):  Value = -1.5 Limitation
--- 8 charges/day (-1/2)
--- Continuing Charge (1 hr)  (+1)
--- Charges Never Recover (-2)

I'm not sure what the cost should be for hourS. The table on 6E1 p370 only goes up to 1 hour. Should the next step should be 5 hours?  Additionally I don't know if the charges need to last longer than 1 hour since we're modifying the concept to one vial of metal ingested = 8 charges (thus 8 hours).

I decided no Fuel becuase it says that it shouldn't be used to power Attack Powers. I also went with Never recoverable as it seems to make the most sense. Once you burn a charge its gone from that clip for good. Once your 8 charges are gone, you can use another vial of metal to regain your 8 charge clip (which would be an IAF I believe?) or would it have to be "Difficult to Recover"?

So the Fluff of the mechanic will be that once you Burn a Charge, it runs until it is depleted, turned off or you're unconscious. But in any of those cases, it counts as the whole charge used. Once you burn a charge, its done. Once your 8 charges are gone. You can't use your power until you ingest another focus.  Make sense?

The actual Vial of Metal would be an IAF?  It is at this point, the physical focus used up to give you charges. Or would it be better handled as a Resource?

* FOCUS (Vial of Iron Shavings suspended in alchemical base): Value = -1/2 Limitation
--- Type: IIF (-1/4) [inobvious - small and hidden]
--- Mobility: Easily Moveable (0)
--- Expendability: Difficut to obtain new focus (-1/4)
--- Durability: Breakable (0)
--- Applicability: (0)  [Technically universal and personal as its useless to anyone But another Iron burner.]


Thoughts?


Also, again thanks for the detailed explenations on power functions. That helps a lot.  Also wanted to thank you for the AID Power suggestion. That works perfecetly with the Charges setup to cover Flaring.

As to the OIAID... The more I think on it, that actually works.Your explenation of "can use" / "cant use" as technically meeting the description of the limitation makes perfect sense.

Also, in the books there are powers that can "sense" the burning/flaring power. If you aren't burning you are invible to those senses, so yes it really is in a way a different state. So more fuel to the argument IMHO.

Thanks again. Great help.

[Khaalis]

Another quick question as I'm second guessing myself. In a Multipower. The Limitations we added for Charges, Focus, etc. are applied to the cost of each individual slots not the base cost of Multipower correct?

 

Thus if I say create a Coinshot Multipower with a reserve of 40 and add the Flare power as a slot, it would look like this?

 

40 - COINSHOT: Multipower, 40-point reserve

4v - 1) Flare: Aid 2d6 to Coinshot Power

 

where...

 

FLARE: Variable Slot; AID Power [6 CP per 1d6] to Coinshot Power; Total CP Value = 2 CP (rounded from 1.75) per 1d6

* Multipower Limitations: (-2.25)

--- Charges, Iron (-1.5)

--- Focus (-1/2)

--- OIAID (-1/4)

* Power Limitations: Total Value = (-2)
--- Only Aid Self (-1)
--- Side Effect (-1): Consumes Metal Faster (Lowers "Continuing Time Value" on Charge); Minor (-1/4), Triggered by Power (x2), Self Only (0), Predetermined Effect (1/4 Less Limit)
* Total Limitations Applied: (-4.25)

 

Thanks again for the patience and teaching.

[Lucius]

Thanks Lucius. This is a very detailed response and good peice of education material.

Thank you, I try. I don't always succeed.

 

(

Ok, so we're back to pretty much where I had originally started with Charges but instead of what I had initially thought (Clips and Fuel) between you and MHD it looks like the suggestion is this  (using Iron for this example).

 

To represent the metals once ingested into the body.

 

* CHARGES (Iron):  Value = -1.5 Limitation

--- 8 charges/day (-1/2)

--- Continuing Charge (1 hr)  (+1)

--- Charges Never Recover (-2)

Are you sure you want to go to all that trouble to build a power that's only useful for 8 hours out of a character's life and can then never be used again? Because that's what you're building here.

 

"Charges Never Recover" means exactly that. It doesn't mean you can go out and buy or make more of your alchemical potion and get the power back. Never means NEVER - once used, that power is gone. The only way to get it back is to spend more Character points to buy it all over again. I don't think that's what you're trying for here.

 

Also, Charges for multiple powers get weird anyway. I'm thinking more and more that what you want here either isn't on Charges, or else you want to buy some kind of "base" power - the Detect Metals maybe - that is on continuing Charges, and the other powers are "Linked" to it so they can only be used while that constant power is in effect - "during the burn" that is.

 

Really, "Only in Alternate ID" may be the most simple way to get what you're looking for.

 

 

I'm not sure what the cost should be for hourS. The table on 6E1 p370 only goes up to 1 hour. Should the next step should be 5 hours?

I believe the next step on the Time Chart is 6 hrs. But you should feel free to adjust where the rules are not too granular; if you want to make it 8 hrs I don't think that's unbalancing or anything.

 

Speaking of the Time Chart, there is a Modifier called Time Limit that may be useful. It's new with this edition so I'm not that experienced with it but it may help if you are really that keen on using the Focus Limitation but don't want to allow someone to just grab your metal out of your belly as it's burning, which they can do ordinarily for a Focus. You can require the Focus to ACTIVATE the power, but once activated, you have it until the duration expires.

 

Anyone who thinks they understand Time Limit better than I feel free to expand, refine, or tell me where I misunderstood it.

 

Additionally I don't know if the charges need to last longer than 1 hour since we're modifying the concept to one vial of metal ingested = 8 charges (thus 8 hours).

 

I decided no Fuel becuase it says that it shouldn't be used to power Attack Powers.

Yeah, that ties into what I was saying about how wonky it can be if you're trying to define multiple powers off the same set of charges. You could have Detect Metal on a Fuel Charge, and other Powers that are Limited to be available only during that time.

 

I also went with Never recoverable as it seems to make the most sense.

It makes sense if these magicians have incredibly brief careers and early and permanent retirements. Or if they never get better because they spend all their XP repurchasing their Powers as they burn through them.

 

Once you burn a charge its gone from that clip for good. Once your 8 charges are gone, you can use another vial of metal to regain your 8 charge clip

You're kind of contradicting yourself. A charge is not "gone for good" if you can "regain" it.

 

(which would be an IAF I believe?) or would it have to be "Difficult to Recover"?

If we're going for Charges here, you probably want Difficult to Recover. If it's a Focus, you may want Expendable. If a mage can conceivably be "burning" all day long, if there's enough metal to fuel it, maybe you want Expendable IAF (Accessible because at the moment you bring it out someone can grab it) with Time Limit. Or IIF might be better - if it's inaccessible until used, and ceases being a Focus immediately (unless you imagine someone reaching into your stomache and grabbing out a handful of metal) it's kind of munchkin to try to squeeze that extra tiny bit of Limitation out because there's that one phase someone could conceivably grab it. Just say the act of swallowing is so quick no one CAN grab it.

 

(

So the Fluff of the mechanic will be that once you Burn a Charge, it runs until it is depleted, turned off or you're unconscious. But in any of those cases, it counts as the whole charge used. Once you burn a charge, its done. Once your 8 charges are gone. You can't use your power until you ingest another focus.  Make sense?

 

The actual Vial of Metal would be an IAF?  It is at this point, the physical focus used up to give you charges. Or would it be better handled as a Resource?

 

* FOCUS (Vial of Iron Shavings suspended in alchemical base): Value = -1/2 Limitation

--- Type: IIF (-1/4) [inobvious - small and hidden]

--- Mobility: Easily Moveable (0)

--- Expendability: Difficut to obtain new focus (-1/4)

--- Durability: Breakable (0)

--- Applicability: (0)  [Technically universal and personal as its useless to anyone But another Iron burner.]

Right on with the Applicability - it falls between Universal and Personal and that's just fine. You can give it to a friend IF the friend can use it, and an enemy can steal it IF they can use it. Well, they can steal it in any case, but not necessarily use it against you.

 

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary reached into my stomache and met chaos

[Lucius]

Another quick question as I'm second guessing myself. In a Multipower. The Limitations we added for Charges, Focus, etc. are applied to the cost of each individual slots not the base cost of Multipower correct?

Depends. Limitations can be applied to the Multipower Base if they are meant to apply to the Multipower as a whole. So you could apply 1 Continuous Charge for 8 hrs to the Multipower Base, and then you can only turn on that Multipower once but it stays "on" for that long and you can use the slots during that time. Such a Limitation also applies to the cost of the slots.

 

Or you can apply Limitations to the slots that effect only that one power.

 

I strongly recommend reviewing the rules on Multipower for fuller understanding.

 

 

Thus if I say create a Coinshot Multipower with a reserve of 40 and add the Flare power as a slot, it would look like this?

 

40 - COINSHOT: Multipower, 40-point reserve

4v - 1) Flare: Aid 2d6 to Coinshot Power

 

where...

 

FLARE: Variable Slot; AID Power [6 CP per 1d6] to Coinshot Power; Total CP Value = 2 CP (rounded from 1.75) per 1d6

* Multipower Limitations: (-2.25)

--- Charges, Iron (-1.5)

--- Focus (-1/2)

--- OIAID (-1/4)

* Power Limitations: Total Value = (-2)

--- Only Aid Self (-1)

--- Side Effect (-1): Consumes Metal Faster (Lowers "Continuing Time Value" on Charge); Minor (-1/4), Triggered by Power (x2), Self Only (0), Predetermined Effect (1/4 Less Limit)

* Total Limitations Applied: (-4.25)

 

Thanks again for the patience and teaching.

No. You can't use one slot of a Multipower to effect another slot. You can't put a Killing Attack in one slot, STR in the other, and combine them to enhance damage. And you can't use Aid in a slot to help another slot.

 

You would have to buy the Aid outside the Multipower. Then it CAN add to a Multipower slot.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary says I should read the rules more if I'm going to pretend to be a guru

[Lucius]

Okay, double checked the rules.

 

You will probably want the Aid Power with the Advantage of Expanded Effect. To increase a slot, you have to Aid both the slot AND the Multipower's pool of points. And if you want to aid several slots, you need to Expand the effect even further.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary misses the good old days

[WistfulD]

 

"No. You can't use one slot of a Multipower to effect another slot. You can't put a Killing Attack in one slot, STR in the other, and combine them to enhance damage. And you can't use Aid in a slot to help another slot.

 

You would have to buy the Aid outside the Multipower. Then it CAN add to a Multipower slot."

 

 

Further, you would have to aid both the multipower's active point limit, and the power itself. That's one of the downsides to multi-powers.

 

Edit: hmm, that quote didn't quote.

[Lucius]

Burning Lithium: (Total: 4 Active Cost, 1 Real Cost) Swimming +3m (7m total), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Time Limit (6 Hours; +1 1/2) (4 Active Points); Surface Only (-1), IIF Expendable (Difficult to obtain new Focus; -1/2), Side Effects (Side Effect always occurs whenever the character does some specific act, Side Effect does a predefined amount of damage; See Notes; -1/2), Only In Alternate Identity (-1/4), Unified Power (-1/4) (Real Cost: 1)

Side Effects if using impure metal or if not burning it all out by the deadline: For 16 hrs all Lithium powers have Activation <=14, ALL rolls at -2 to to general debility, lose 5 STUN and 10 END that do not recover until next day, and take 1d6-2 Killing damage

 

"I Feel Much Better Now": (Total: 51 Active Cost, 14 Real Cost) +6 with EGO Characteristic Roll, Uncontrolled (+1/2), Usable Simultaneously (all targets standing within 10 meters of Grantor; +1 1/4), Grantor must grant power one Recipient at a time., Time Limit (6 Hours; +1 1/2) (51 Active Points); Limited Power Only to resist Psychological Complications (-1), IIF Expendable (Difficult to obtain new Focus; -1/2), Side Effects (Side Effect always occurs whenever the character does some specific act, Side Effect does a predefined amount of damage; See Notes; -1/2), Only In Alternate Identity (-1/4), Unified Power (-1/4) (Real Cost: 14)

 

Assault and Lithium Battery: (Total: 22 Active Cost, 7 Real Cost) Killing Attack - Ranged 1d6, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (22 Active Points); Side Effects (Side Effect always occurs whenever the character does some specific act, Side Effect does a predefined amount of damage; -1/2), Linked ("I Feel Much Better Now"; -1/2), STR Minimum 5 (-1/4), Variable Limitations (requires -1/2 worth of Limitations; Either No Range, or Focus (thrown object); -1/4), Unified Power (-1/4), Only In Alternate Identity (-1/4) (Real Cost: 7)

 

Mellow Fellow: (Total: 44 Active Cost, 11 Real Cost) Mind Control 1d6 (standard effect: 3 points), Telepathic (+1/4), Area Of Effect (4m Radius; +1/4), MegaScale (1m = 1 km; +1), Cannot alter scale (-1/4), Cumulative (96 points; +1 1/2), Damage Over Time, Target's defenses only apply once, Lock out (cannot be applied multiple times) (32 damage increments, damage occurs every Turn, +5) (44 Active Points); Set Effect (Only to be peaceful and content; eliminates hostility, stress, anxiety, excitement, fear, depression; -1/2), No Range (-1/2), Side Effects (Side Effect always occurs whenever the character does some specific act, Side Effect does a predefined amount of damage; -1/2), Linked ("I Feel Much Better Now"; -1/2), Stops Working If Mentalist Is Knocked Out (-1/4), Perceivable (subtle yellow tinge to the lighting; -1/4), Unified Power (-1/4), Only In Alternate Identity (-1/4) (Real Cost: 11)

 

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary says before you know it Lucius will probably have variations with Charges, using Multipower, etc.