[Physics] How much damage does the exterior of a vehicle in atmospheric reentry deal?

[Ragitsu]

I am trying to figure out how much damage the red-hot exterior of a spacecraft entering Earth's atmosphere deals, because a flying brick might be flying up in order to help it land, and I need to know how much (if any) injury they will sustain.

[IndianaJoe3]

It's going to vary, depending on the vehicle's aerodynamics. Parts of the shuttle reached almost 3000F, but other areas were cooler.

[Hyper-Man]

I would allow Life Support Extreme Heat to cover it.

[assault]

It's more an environmental effect than an attack, so Life Support Extreme Heat would be appropriate.

 

If not, characters that are able to operate in space become prohibitively expensive - because they have to be able to survive re-entry too.

[Grailknight]

Friction Resistance is built into Flight.  Anything that reaches hypersonic speeds in the atmosphere has to deal with that kind of heat.

[Ragitsu]

It's going to vary, depending on the vehicle's aerodynamics. Parts of the shuttle reached almost 3000F, but other areas were cooler.

 

 

How much damage would around 3000 degrees Fahrenheit translate into in HERO 6th Edition terms?

[Hyper-Man]

A quick Google search shows:
 

 

Iron, out of the ground, melts at around 1510 degrees C (2750°F). Steel often melts at around 1370 degrees C (2500°F).

 

 

So you should just be able to determine what the defense of Iron or Steel is and create an attack accordingly.

[Hyper-Man]

It sure sounds like you have a deeper question that you aren't asking us.

 

Does the Flying Brick in question have Life Support?  Do they have the amount of Flight necessary to match velocities with the re-entry?

[薔薇語]

Arent the outer layers of the shuttle made from a ceramic compound precisely because the temperature of reentry is so extreme that it would likely melt any exposed metals on the front of the craft?

 

I imagine if you wanted to know the impact power you could calculate its volacity, possible rate of deccelleration, and then come to the final energy of impact and guess that value in Hero Terms.

 

 

If it were me running this I would look at the heroes stats. Can he fly to intercept? Can he lift the item raw? Can he survive in space or near severe heat?

 

If the answer is yes to all the above, then I would give him a chance to do a strength check with some very hard target. Maybe a minus five to ten. If he passes, then it was done well with little to no ill effects. If he only barely failed, then the hero will take some arbitrary damage that I think is good. Maybe 1d6 rka penatrating per point of failure. A fail by five or more points means even the craft will suffer major damage and maybe complete destruction.

 

Foreign Orchid.

[Armitage]

According to Star Hero (5e, p. 284. 6e, p. 311), atmospheric reentry causes 5 BODY of damage per Phase.

[Ragitsu]

According to Star Hero (5e, p. 284. 6e, p. 311), atmospheric reentry causes 5 BODY of damage per Phase.

 

To the ship itself, anyone/anything in contact with the outer hull, or both?

[procyon]

I would probably rule that the ship the brick is trying to stop is going to make an attack on each of it's phases (acting at it's max speed) doing that 5 body each time.

Of course it is energy damage.

 

I would also (probably) make it penetrating, as the heat is going to build up.

 

I would also (probably) make it a bit more than 5 body in most cases.  Just 5 body seems a bit light for me. 

 

I would also expect the super to take a Move Through attack by the space craft if he can't fly as fast as it moves (we are talking thousands of MPH...) so he could be in for a lot of damage (ship's strength plus the damage from a speed faster than any bullet...).  And the impact damage might just shatter the ship as it takes its share of the damage...

 

Not very cinematic.  But what do you expect from someone who worked as a physicist. 

[massey]

It depends how fast you are going.  The reason the space shuttle has to have those ceramic tiles is because it comes screaming into the upper atmosphere at about Mach 20.  It slows down solely through friction with the atmosphere.  If you've got controlled flight, where you can slow down at will, you won't experience anything like that.

[massey]

As far as the brick goes, where he grabs the shuttle will make all the difference. Instead of grabbing the nose, which will probably be the hottest part, he should grab near the engines, which won't even be on. No heat friction there.

[Ndreare]

I would wing it and completely throw out real world physics. This is a case were the brick would be more likely to punch a whole in the vessel or otherwise compromise the integrity by ripping off a component changing the aerodynamic properties.

 

If your game is cinematic then it should be arbitrarily adjusted by you the gm.

Have the brick make Con or Strength rolls he takes one body damage plus his margin of failure. That will put in a suspense factor, while still allowing him to have fun. If he gets creative give him bonuses. Then have him roll for every "event" that happens during the decent. Five roll could make a good scene, with events like losing his grip, parts breaking off, or out of control flight leading it close to some other risk such as a building.

[Greywind]

There was an issue of Green Lantern where he was trying to save a space shuttle and ended up doing more damage to it due to his inexperience.

 

You could also refer to Superman Returns when he's trying to saving the plane that is going to pieces.

[Hugh Neilson]

Perhaps not an issue in the specific game, but this sounds like a classic potential "mismatched expectations" scenario.

 

The player thinks "Of course I can save the falling space shuttle - that is what Superheroes like Superman do, and I am playing a Superhero like Superman!"

 

Meanwhile, the GM is thinking "Realistically, the shuttle would simply smack into him and carry him down with it, and besides the heat of re-entry will cook the character, and even if he could get past all that, he'd tear the Shuttle to shreds, not save it".

 

Someone will not have their expectations of the game met.

 

So my answer to "how much damage would the heated shuttle inflict" is "what level of damage would be appropriate for the game?" If the character has the appropriate Life Support, then the answer is clearly "none". And this is an opportunity to highlight those three points - "Great Scott - that heat would vaporize a car, but he just keeps holding on - why, he isn't even sweating!"

[Hyper-Man]

Something else worth a little consideration.

 

IF the flying brick can match orbital velocity with the spacecraft AND they have enough STR to lift it THEN they could just gradually stop its orbital speed (the reason for high re-entry temperatures) and just let gravity do most of the work of letting it fall to Earth and the just keeping its speed below terminal velocity until gently setting it on the ground.

 

This all assumes a flying brick with pretty high STR, Movement, REC and END.

If the flying brick is trying to do something out of their normal 'weight class' then a PUSH based high risk, high reward tactic may be the only option available to them.

[Grailknight]

As I said before, The resistance to the friction heat is built into your flight(unless you bought it with a disadvantage) otherwise the character would burn up while matching speeds. 

 

So it becomes a matter of Flight STR.

 

Here's a good example. The Nu Gundam is capable of re-entry on its own, the other suits are not.

 

https://youtu.be/gB89HFPsbDw?t=424