Basically

[Nothere]

So I've noticed something. In the games I've been involved with people don't seem to like bases. Even when gming and I give them a low point starter base they pretty much ignore it. So I was wondering,

 

Do you use a base in your game?

 

Do you consider them  waste of points?

 

What is the most interesting base you've seen in a game?

 

To answer the last question myself...

 

A villainous spy character had an invisible dirigable floating between two of the tallest buildings in the city.

[assault]

My main problem with them: they, like vehicles, involve a whole separate set of rules, which I've never truly explored. I can build a character off the top of my head or on the back of an envelope, I can't do the same with a base or vehicle.

 

There are also questions of how useful they are, particularly when you are trying to do as much as possible with a finite number of points.

 

Perhaps most importantly, really taking advantage of them requires changes in game style. The game probably needs to be one that explores, or at least is interested in, the PCs lives outside their actual adventures.

 

I'm quite comfortable with handing out zero point bases. Most of them don't do very much. A fortress with Big Freakin' Guns is something else, of course.

[procyon]

I have always given the players a pool of points for a base at the start of the game.

Now, further expenditures are often less than spectacular.  But the do occasionally happen.

Normally when the base does get 'upgrades', it is a case of the PCs agreeing on something and each 'donating' a point from each session until it is paid for.

Now, buying and upgrading vehicles happens a bit more often for us.

[Narf the Mouse]

A base is essential. It's very embarrassing to have the villains infiltrate your secret apartment and have a running battle through the hallways.

 

A base is the difference between a superhero, and "That crazy guy in room 1520 with the costume and those little throwing things shaped like bats."

[Lucius]

 

 

The Batcave.

 

The Fortress of Solitude.

 

Sanctum Sanctorum.

 

Sure seem to be a lot of bases in the comics.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary wants a base with an Indoor Heated Variable Power Pool

[Narf the Mouse]

Plus, you don't get thrown out of your secret base when supervillains invade every other story arc.

[procyon]

Plus, you don't get thrown out of your secret base when supervillains invade every other story arc.

No, but you may get thrown out of your city when they realize that wherever your base is, is where the next demon/alien/mole man/etc invasion will start.

[massey]

The last time I really looked at the base rules was in 4th edition.  From what I remember, 5th didn't change them much, if at all.  I don't play 6th and so don't know what happened with that.

 

But from my experience, bases are one of the things that are hard to get "right" in Hero.  There's a fine line between a base being a useless waste of points, and being ungodly powerful.  There are some pretty simple tricks to abusing the base rules.  You can get things a lot cheaper than it first appears.  I like to buy a character's "gadget pool" (particularly one that can only change in the lab) through the base.  That gives you basically a 5 for 1 discount on those powers.  Another good one is to buy the size of the base up much larger than you need and take (I believe it's called) "sectional defenses" on the actual 'base' part of your base.  If it's actually going to be any sort of fortress you can get a great price break on its Def and Body that way.

 

Anyway, in the end I don't think they're balanced properly and so I try to avoid them now.  You either end up with some crappy place that you never want to use, or a super-fortress that you never want to leave.

[Hyper-Man]

So it's just a coincidence that the Justice Friend's Base is the apartment they live in?

 

[BoloOfEarth]

The PC heroes in my games have usually had a base, though often the majority (if not all) of the points to pay for them have been gifts from the GM.  I kinda prefer that as GM, since what I giveth I can taketh away, damage, or otherwise alter at will.

 

It can be hit or miss whether or not a base is useful; IMO that really depends upon the GM paying attention to the players' (and their characters) wants and needs.  They can't just be a location for the bad guys to attack (though that can be fun at times), though.  That gets tiring for the players right quick.

 

My suggestion would be to give the base (and any caretakers) a bit of personality, and not worry overmuch about the actual writeup except for the parts the PCs pay points to get.  Just know the general PD/ED, any unusual defenses, and maybe stat out the more frequently-used weapons.

 

The more memorable bases in my campaign have been:

 

Volcano Lair:  the Millennium City Protectors found a deserted island in the South Pacific and built a teleporter to get to and from the island.  Then they dug out sections of the volcano for their base, cleaned up the beach, and had a great getaway.  Many great memories there (such as a PC's husband searching an old cave and finding  putting on the Bone Crown of Krim), and it's even put in an appearance in my new campaign. 

 

Oil Rig Base:  the Elite Force had a base built on an abandoned oil rig they had towed up to a location off Manhattan that was out of the shipping lanes.  They spent points for security guards and defenses, so I figured they wanted a supervillain attack or two.  Of course, I obliged.  Some fun interactions between the PCs and their security chief.

 

Magic House:  In my current campaign, one of the heroes inherited an old Victorian house that has obvious magical features (such as hiding itself from anybody whom he doesn't make privy to its location, so currently the only people who can find the house are the PCs, the estate lawyer, and a pizza delivery guy that Shadowboxer pointed out the house to before he figured out what was truly up).  They've figured out the "room of requirement" in the basement that can serve as a Danger Room, but they have yet to discover the scrying paintings, or indeed many other things in the house.  To pique the players' interest, the will leaving the house to the hero was written decades before he was born.

[Narf the Mouse]

The last time I really looked at the base rules was in 4th edition.  From what I remember, 5th didn't change them much, if at all.  I don't play 6th and so don't know what happened with that.

 

But from my experience, bases are one of the things that are hard to get "right" in Hero.  There's a fine line between a base being a useless waste of points, and being ungodly powerful.  There are some pretty simple tricks to abusing the base rules.  You can get things a lot cheaper than it first appears.  I like to buy a character's "gadget pool" (particularly one that can only change in the lab) through the base.  That gives you basically a 5 for 1 discount on those powers.  Another good one is to buy the size of the base up much larger than you need and take (I believe it's called) "sectional defenses" on the actual 'base' part of your base.  If it's actually going to be any sort of fortress you can get a great price break on its Def and Body that way.

 

Anyway, in the end I don't think they're balanced properly and so I try to avoid them now.  You either end up with some crappy place that you never want to use, or a super-fortress that you never want to leave.

Ok, in order; first, if the character buys a gadget pool through the base, then I would rule that they can only use that gadget pool inside the base. Second, if the characters' base is actually a fraction of the "size" they bought, I would rule that the actual size of the base is the size of the actual base. Both of those feel "Cheaty" to me, so I would rule against them on those basis.

[bluesguy]

Current campaign the players have a base which every PC has contributed points to when the characters are created.  The base has science & mechanical labs; medical lab; holding cells; AI; a holosuite/danger room; small apts; two staff members and the sponsoring agency provide a few competent agent/guards.  They also have a hover craft to get them around the state when they need to travel as a group.

[massey]

Ok, in order; first, if the character buys a gadget pool through the base, then I would rule that they can only use that gadget pool inside the base. Second, if the characters' base is actually a fraction of the "size" they bought, I would rule that the actual size of the base is the size of the actual base. Both of those feel "Cheaty" to me, so I would rule against them on those basis.

As long as you recognize that they are both book legal. There are a lot of things that GMs say "no" to, for game balance.

[procyon]

But from my experience, bases are one of the things that are hard to get "right" in Hero ...  Another good one is to buy the size of the base up much larger than you need and take (I believe it's called) "sectional defenses" on the actual 'base' part of your base.  If it's actually going to be any sort of fortress you can get a great price break on its Def and Body that way.

 

Our current games 'bases" (plural, they have 2 now with the second just finishing construction) have large 'estates' that are fenced in.  But the bases also serve functions other than a simple stronghold.

 

With the group being the 'cast' of a TV show, a lot of business and actual filming occurs at their base, along with the normal activities that most groups engage in.  So areas to entertain new 'guest stars' or producers, social events with politicians (sometimes they even endorse them ! ) and celebrities, get togethers with family (who do not always get along together as one PC comes from a rich socialite family while another grew up on the gang infested areas of Chicago...

I think you get the idea.

A lot of activities happen at the base, with the bulk of them having absolutely nothing to do with combat.

 

And the fact that EVERYONE knows a great deal about the base from the extensive media coverage is what inspired them to invest in a newer, more private, base where they can actually vacation.

[DShomshak]

In campaigns I've run or played in, the PCs usually had a base. They varied in importance, from "barely mentioned as a necessary place for them to get together," to "significant location developed in detail." They were usually donated or obtained in play, and points were usually hand-waved.

 

The most detailed base I gave the PCs came in my two "Keystone Konjuror" super-mage playtest campaigns. The PCs acquired a small but ornate Victorian house that existed simultaneously in Earth and Babylon. Convenient for them, since one PC preferred Babylon to Earth.

 

In my on-hiatus Avant Guard campaign, the PCs used the fabulous super-tech base of their mentor Doctor Future. No writeup or point concerns, since he's an NPC. That base is now apparently destroyed, though, or at least lost in the Mesozoic for now.

 

And I write up bases for villains who use superweapons.

 

Dean Shomshak

[Comic]

A base is an infinitely vulnerable dependent susceptible to everything that endangers your SID, exposes you to new weaknesses, and it still costs you CP?

 

I never understood why Bases weren't complications that you got points for taking on the burden of owning.

[Narf the Mouse]

As long as you recognize that they are both book legal. There are a lot of things that GMs say "no" to, for game balance.

Sure, but the rules need a GM to keep them balaned, and mention this explicitly, a lot. If you don't provided needed balance decisions, and the players don't restrain themselves, well, things will be unbalanced.

[massey]

Sure, but the rules need a GM to keep them balaned, and mention this explicitly, a lot. If you don't provided needed balance decisions, and the players don't restrain themselves, well, things will be unbalanced.

 

The thing is that a lot of abuses can be disguised if you're careful.  A good design can seem pretty reasonable on the surface, and take advantage of pretty big cost breaks.

 

If I was trying to sneak something past a GM, I might go with something like this:

 

Base

Location: Distant, Deep Wilderness  (for a "Fortress of Solitude" style base) -- 15 pts

Size 18  (250 hexes x 125 hexes, this will be truly massive) -- 36 pts

Def 8, Body 12 -- 28 pts

+22 Def, +28 Body (30 Def 40 Body total), partial coverage for up to 800 hexes (-2) -- 31 pts

 

This gives you a large "Hall of Justice" type base that you can place in a city.  It will be the public face of the team.  It can be a skyscraper or a huge government building looking thing made out of marble.  This is where people come to meet with you.  Now in the basement of the Hall of Justice, we're going to have a reinforced bomb shelter.  We'll put maybe 50 hexes of area down there.  The increased Def and Body apply to that.  Now, the rules allow you to split up the hexes of a base between two or more locations.  You pay the location cost for the most expensive spot (in this case, for our arctic base).  We're going to put the other 750 hexes worth of area in our secure arctic location.  This is where the team really meets.  It's where all of our good stuff is.  That's where we keep our teleporters, and captured supervillain weapons, and things like that.  The partial coverage Def and Body apply to this location as well.

 

If you handed that to a GM, they'd probably be fine with it.  There's a rational explanation for everything, it doesn't look like you're trying to get away with something, etc.  It's all book legal.  But what happened is I spent 16 points to needlessly increase the size of my base, and that gave me a -2 on 94 points worth of Def and Body for it.  In the end, I saved 47 points over simply buying the extra Def and Body on a smaller base.  Now, in the grand scheme of things, that's really not all that big of a deal.  With the 5 for 1 discount, it's like an extra 9 points for your character.  But I was pretty restrained with it, and that's really only one of the things you can do with a base.

[dmjalund]

The thing is that a lot of abuses can be disguised if you're careful.  A good design can seem pretty reasonable on the surface, and take advantage of pretty big cost breaks.

 

If I was trying to sneak something past a GM, I might go with something like this:

 

Base

Location: Distant, Deep Wilderness  (for a "Fortress of Solitude" style base) -- 15 pts

Size 18  (250 hexes x 125 hexes, this will be truly massive) -- 36 pts

Def 8, Body 12 -- 28 pts

+22 Def, +28 Body (30 Def 40 Body total), partial coverage for up to 800 hexes (-2) -- 31 pts

 

This gives you a large "Hall of Justice" type base that you can place in a city.  It will be the public face of the team.  It can be a skyscraper or a huge government building looking thing made out of marble.  This is where people come to meet with you.  Now in the basement of the Hall of Justice, we're going to have a reinforced bomb shelter.  We'll put maybe 50 hexes of area down there.  The increased Def and Body apply to that.  Now, the rules allow you to split up the hexes of a base between two or more locations.  You pay the location cost for the most expensive spot (in this case, for our arctic base).  We're going to put the other 750 hexes worth of area in our secure arctic location.  This is where the team really meets.  It's where all of our good stuff is.  That's where we keep our teleporters, and captured supervillain weapons, and things like that.  The partial coverage Def and Body apply to this location as well.

 

If you handed that to a GM, they'd probably be fine with it.  There's a rational explanation for everything, it doesn't look like you're trying to get away with something, etc.  It's all book legal.  But what happened is I spent 16 points to needlessly increase the size of my base, and that gave me a -2 on 94 points worth of Def and Body for it.  In the end, I saved 47 points over simply buying the extra Def and Body on a smaller base.  Now, in the grand scheme of things, that's really not all that big of a deal.  With the 5 for 1 discount, it's like an extra 9 points for your character.  But I was pretty restrained with it, and that's really only one of the things you can do with a base.

buy a single target teleport to allow for quick travel between the city base and the arctic base

[massey]

buy a single target teleport to allow for quick travel between the city base and the arctic base

 

Oh yeah, that's just understood.

[Hyper-Man]

Aren't there meaningful drawbacks to such a tiered construction method?  Seems like someone wanting to infiltrate the base would have an easier time with the discounted 'outer perimeter' which would in turn suggest easier access to the security system connected to both.  Just spitballing here...

[massey]

Aren't there meaningful drawbacks to such a tiered construction method?  Seems like someone wanting to infiltrate the base would have an easier time with the discounted 'outer perimeter' which would in turn suggest easier access to the security system connected to both.  Just spitballing here...

 

Possibly, but you don't even have to have them in the same place.  My fortress can be in outer space and the rest of it can be in downtown Orlando.

[Lawnmower Boy]

A base is essential. It's very embarrassing to have the villains infiltrate your secret apartment and have a running battle through the hallways.

 

A base is the difference between a superhero, and "That crazy guy in room 1520 with the costume and those little throwing things shaped like bats."

Archenemies. 

 

On the one hand, it's too bad nothing more ever came of this. On the other, its Mary Sue curve was pretty asymptotic. 

 

Narratively, there is nothing better than a secret base. Thinking about this, I ended up sketching a way of using a secret base to echo and develop the themes of a Bildungsroman --a story about the development and maturation of a protagonist or group of protagonists.

  

1. Welcome to High School/Government Research Lab/Fill in the Blank

2. For [Reasons], Sneak into the abandoned/restricted/haunted wing/sub-basement/you get the idea.

3. Woah, dude. How many times have we been down here doing [stuff]? And now we realise there's a secret door down here.

4. It's full of stars/Vikings/dinosaurs/aliens/otherworldly ecosystems/legacy stuff.

5. There's a building/we build something.

 

There are, however, other stories, and other ways of doing this.  I'd say something Freudian about the particular narrative structure I've laid out  here, but I hope that most people will recocnise this scenario as a recurrent motif in hopeful dreams. (A little Googling confirms that I'm hardly the only one to have the "finding a secret room in a house" dream.)  This is a huge element in Harry Potter, and probably something that any writer of juveniles should consider incorporating as part of the coming of age theme. The problem here is that the RPG campaign, like the comic, has an uncertain and probably shorter-than-expected future, so you probably want to frontload the good stuff, whereas with a novel you can draw it out as long as you want, subject to your publisher, and let's face it, your chances of making it that far are pretty astronomical, so go on, turn your own crank. 

 

We don't see this character-development-is-base-development arc in comic books even so often as the transience of the medium would lead us to expect, however, and I think that this i beause comics writers are often going for a different story, involving a little more of the adolescent variety of wish fulfillment. In these, bases spring into being as impregnable and special places apart, where adults can't bug you. This is where you get your absurly over-protected super-bases, and, again, reaching for a popular fictional example, I'll nod to Harry Dresden, who acquires these joints like some people acquire odd socks. (Mainly people who share their laundry rooms. I'm not sure I need a three year old's socks, but there you go.) Then the GM has the very tricky assignment of breaking the shell open, which tends to violate an implicit contract with the reader. 

 

Now, if you start with the base-as-complication, knowing that your school/massive public headquarters is a compound under endless siege, there's a new kind of story you can tell, in which the characters are brought together in a pressure cooker environment for maxium soap opera. Welcome to first year residence the Avengers Mansion! In this kind of story, you don't so much get expelled from the shelter of the base by ever-escalating threats as you graduate and leave it behind. This is the kind of story that superhero comics have a lot of trouble telling. In fact, it's the kind of story that's just plain harder to tell than the people who write them seem to realise. Where else are you going to find a story arc where you can lump J. K. Rowling and Leo Tolstoy together as authors who couldn't stick the landing? Perversely, though, it might work best for the dynamics of an RPG campaign (if the players are into soap opera, I guess), because RPG superheroes are always retiring to the suburbs, kids, white picket fences, and whatever else happens to those losers who end up with no time to game.

 

And with that I'd better bring these coffee-fueld ramblings to a close, so that I can go ramble somewhere else.  

[bigbywolfe]

As long as you recognize that they are both book legal. There are a lot of things that GMs say "no" to, for game balance.

Except that they aren't. Equipment bought as Foci as part of a base is part of the base and is considered Immobile. It's that way in 6th and 5th and I'm willing to bet that was the intention in 4th.

[SteelCold]

Just make the base mobile.