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Anomandaris

Hero System 6th Ed. 2 Volume Set reprint or a 7th Ed. soon?

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Hello,

 

I'm new to Hero and i was wondering - will we see a reprint of the 2 volume Set of the 6th Edition rules soon or will we get a 7th Edition instead (the 6th Ed. is 6 years old, iirc)?

I know there are some genre books that contain the rules but i would like to buy a generic, overall version of the rules, if at all possible. So do we know if there is a reprint of the 6th Ed. or if there is a 7th Ed. in planning?

 

I know there is a basic rules book and that there are pdfs of the 2 volume set. But i am not a pdf user and as i said, if at all possible i want the full rules. I checked stores and second hand dealers but most of the time, Volume 1 is not in stock and if it is, they charge ridiculous amounts of money for it (for example, Amazon.com third party offer for 249.99$). Volume 2 is a bit easier to find but oftentimes the dealers do not ship overseas and/or the prices are too high (not even factoring in international shipping).

 

Thanks in advance for any pointers/help.

 

A.

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Thank you, Scott, for your answer.

 

So a reprint is not in the cards, it seems :( Is there any talk and/or rumor about Hero 7th Ed.?

 

I looked at Fantasy Hero Complete and Champions Complete but i am wondering how can this be the full rules if the page count is so much smaller (especially as i hope that some of that page count is also reserved for the genre part of the book)? I mean Vol I and II had a combined page count of over 700 vs. 240 pages in FHC or CC.

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Thank you, Scott, for your answer.

 

So a reprint is not in the cards, it seems :( Is there any talk and/or rumor about Hero 7th Ed.?

 

I looked at Fantasy Hero Complete and Champions Complete but i am wondering how can this be the full rules if the page count is so much smaller (especially as i hope that some of that page count is also reserved for the genre part of the book)? I mean Vol I and II had a combined page count of over 700 vs. 240 pages in FHC or CC.

 

How can it be complete, but so much smaller?

 

Examples.

 

Text examples take up mad word count, and Hero 6E (and 5E, if I recall) have multiple examples for pretty much everything. Pare those down, and you're pretty solid. As to whether or not that makes things easier or worse, well, people will give you different answers. I never really got into Hero 5E, it didn't really click for me at any point.

 

People complain that it was like a textbook. Well, I read textbooks for fun, and I wasn't getting anything out of it. Others swear by it! /shrug

 

Still, Champions Complete really did it for me. I have a bunch of other .pdfs now (somebody in my group decided that I should really have 6E 1 & 2), and sometimes I'll look things up if in those if they're not clear. Certainly, 6E has a wealth of information - the little table on campaign power levels and characteristic maxima was pure gold - but all told, I usually still just use Champions Complete (or Fantasy Hero Complete in .pdf) when I'm using the book.

 

I will say that 6E1 is much more user-friendly than 5E was, at least to my eyes; Fred Hicks is a Layout Monster; It is known. But it was CC that taught me to love Hero.

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Thank you, Scott, for your answer.

 

So a reprint is not in the cards, it seems :( Is there any talk and/or rumor about Hero 7th Ed.?

 

I looked at Fantasy Hero Complete and Champions Complete but i am wondering how can this be the full rules if the page count is so much smaller (especially as i hope that some of that page count is also reserved for the genre part of the book)? I mean Vol I and II had a combined page count of over 700 vs. 240 pages in FHC or CC.

 

Hello Anomandaris,

 

While you are correct about 6th Ed being 464 pages and Vol 2 being 320 pages, much of that was not "rules" as such.  The 6th Edition Basic Rulebook has 137 pages and contains 99.99% of the rules. 

 

The reason that Vol 1&2 are so large is that they contain extensive examples and explanations of how you can do things within the system plus advice based on 30+ years of HERO as a game system. 

 

Take Clairsentience.   In 6th Basic it was half of one column (one quarter of a page), In 6th Vol 1 is was three full pages and in Champs Complete it is about one page.  

 

There is a document that lists out the actual changes for character creation ( http://www.herogames.com/forums/files/file/153-champions-complete-converting-characters/ )

 

The entire document is only 4 pages, a cover with no game info, and three pages listing the changes/conversion information all the way back to 1st edition.   Yes, you read that correctly.    The 3 pages of information cover all of the version back to 1981. 

 

Most of the changes are what I refer to as cosmetic.  Such as changing "Power Advantages" to "Advantages".   Or combining Radio Perception, Radio Perception/Transmission and High Range Radio Perception into a single Radio Perception.

 

But remember all of the changes for 6th to CC fill about half of one page. 

 

While I love the 2 volume Blue Books and still use them extensively, I have a couple copies of Champions Complete, because they contain all the rules and don't send the the weak kneed running away in terror when they think they may need to actually read something  :shock:

 

There are a few tweaks in the combat and adventuring sections, but I believe most of the them concerned options that were actually affected back in 4th or 5th edition.   One of the old time gurus on the forum would know better than I.  I only notice sometimes because I'll be rambling here and get corrected about something that had changed years ago that I never noticed. 

 

Which is a beauty of the system.  After all these years, all the changes (with the singular exception of the great decoupling) are tiny and virtually unnoticeable in day to day gaming. 

 

 

But all kidding aside.  The tiny books did contain all of the core rules without the fluff.  

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So a reprint is not in the cards, it seems :( Is there any talk and/or rumor about Hero 7th Ed.?

 

There was a discussion thread several months ago, but it was all pet peeves, kludges, and theorycrafting by board members. 

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God, I hope not yet.

 

LOL

 

There was a discussion thread several months ago, but it was all pet peeves, kludges, and theorycrafting by board members. 

 

As they mostly all are.  But where else do we have such a wonderful place to air all of our wants and needs :P

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Thanks for all your answers :)

 

Now i am torn .... i mean i am new to Hero...really new (aka never played it, only read snippets of it every now and then). I think all the examples and explanations of the 2 Volume set would probably be of big value to someone like me. No?

The prospect of being able to buy Fantasy or Champions complete right now and be done is really attractive ....but the question is - is it also the best way to go for a total newb ^^

 

*sigh* Decisions, decisions...

 

Anyway, be that as it may, you have all been a big help, so thank you again.

 

P.S.: Anyone care to link me to the 7th Ed. rumor/discussion thread? I'd appreciate it :)

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I want a reprinted 6e, with all errata items fixed and *no other changes to the rules*, printed on more standard paper. Perhaps something like the GURPS 4e Basic Set uses. That would make them quite a bit more compact.

 

Oh, and I want a pony, too.

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I want a reprinted 6e, with all errata items fixed and *no other changes to the rules*, printed on more standard paper. Perhaps something like the GURPS 4e Basic Set uses. That would make them quite a bit more compact.

 

Oh, and I want a pony, too.

 

Would that be a blue pony with yellow markings? 

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Thanks for all your answers :)

 

Now i am torn .... i mean i am new to Hero...really new (aka never played it, only read snippets of it every now and then). I think all the examples and explanations of the 2 Volume set would probably be of big value to someone like me. No?

The prospect of being able to buy Fantasy or Champions complete right now and be done is really attractive ....but the question is - is it also the best way to go for a total newb ^^

 

*sigh* Decisions, decisions...

 

Anyway, be that as it may, you have all been a big help, so thank you again.

 

P.S.: Anyone care to link me to the 7th Ed. rumor/discussion thread? I'd appreciate it :)

 

 

Well to give you my bottom line personal recommendation. 

 

For someone who is completely new to Hero, I would get:

 

1) Either Champions Complete or Fantasy Complete, depending on the type of game you are looking for.

 

once you decide that Hero is for you then:

2) Hero Designer, at only $25 it is probably one of the greatest resources for an RPG I have ever come across. 

3) Hero System 6th Ed Vol 1 & 2

4) Supplements as needed.  The 6th Ed genre books such as Champions, Fantasy Hero, Stat Hero and so on are extremely good books.  Not just for a Hero driven game, but for any RPG.  The Pulp Hero book is hands down the best circa 1935 Pulp RPG supplement ever written, not that I'm in any way biased :whistle:

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Thanks Spence for your advice.

 

As it turns out, i was lucky. Seems Hero 6th and me are meant to be  :winkgrin: ...why? Well i found two different places, one had the Vol 1 book for a reasonable price and the other had Volume 2 for a reasonable price...so i am all set.

 

If i like what i see with those two books, i will consider buying into Fantasy on a later date (i am mainly a fantasy guy).

 

Btw, does anyone know, is Hero Games supporting Bits and Mortar? So can i expect to get the pdfs of those two books if i can prove purchase of said books? Thanks again for all your replies, guys.

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Thanks Spence for your advice.

 

As it turns out, i was lucky. Seems Hero 6th and me are meant to be  :winkgrin: ...why? Well i found two different places, one had the Vol 1 book for a reasonable price and the other had Volume 2 for a reasonable price...so i am all set.

 

If i like what i see with those two books, i will consider buying into Fantasy on a later date (i am mainly a fantasy guy).

 

Btw, does anyone know, is Hero Games supporting Bits and Mortar? So can i expect to get the pdfs of those two books if i can prove purchase of said books? Thanks again for all your replies, guys.

 

Well if you have 6th volume 1&2, you pretty much have it all.

 

Champs Complete is still very useful since it is way more portable and doesn't panic the children...... aaaaaahhhhhhhh! It's big!   I can't Read!!!!!  :rofl:

 

The for genre expansions I would go for  Fantasy Hero, Start Hero and/or Champions.  They do not contain any rules, but are great "how to build campaign" books.  Plus they have genre specific equipment and such. 

 

About Brick and Mortar.  Champions Complete and Fantasy Complete are in the B&M program. 

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Thanks Spence for your advice.

 

As it turns out, i was lucky. Seems Hero 6th and me are meant to be  :winkgrin: ...why? Well i found two different places, one had the Vol 1 book for a reasonable price and the other had Volume 2 for a reasonable price...so i am all set.

 

If i like what i see with those two books, i will consider buying into Fantasy on a later date (i am mainly a fantasy guy).

 

Btw, does anyone know, is Hero Games supporting Bits and Mortar? So can i expect to get the pdfs of those two books if i can prove purchase of said books? Thanks again for all your replies, guys.

That was a good find. As I've stated before, I'm not a big fan of the Complete books for those new to the Hero System. I think it would be difficult for most to tease out how it all works in actuality, due to the lack of examples in those books. The big books are excellent for that, although they have their own issue of being overly verbose. Still, with a bit of persistence and using the forums as a resource, you'll be able to get where you want to go with either presentation of the rules.

 

For fantasy gaming, having the two core books plus FH6e (not Complete) is a mind-boggling cornucopia. Pretty much the only three books you'd ever need.

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Hero Designer. I balked. That was foolish; it's lovely.

 

At $25, I've gotten more enjoyment out of it than plenty of video games I've paid more for. Lovely, lovely bit of software.

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For fantasy gaming, having the two core books plus FH6e (not Complete) is a mind-boggling cornucopia. Pretty much the only three books you'd ever need.

Don't forget the HS6 Bestiary. Pretty much the only four books you'd ever need.

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I was thinking of getting the FH6 genre guide a few months ago, but didn't bite the bullet.  Now, it's on the way to three figure USD territory.  I suppose I could go the .pdf and lulu route?

 

I hope a 6ed core (updated and revised) reprint is at least a mote in Hero's eye - I would back that kickstarter in a hot second!

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The question to really ask yourself is "when do I most often reference the rules, during or between games?"  If the answer is during then Champions/Fantasy Hero Complete are the more table friendly formats.  If it's between games I think you will find the PDF's of 6e1 and 6e2 more useful once you get used to the search (ctrl F) feature which is what I use all the time when browsing the forums. :)

 

*I can't remember the last time I actually cracked open my copies of 6e1 or 6e2. The only core books I do crack open are the ones that don't have a PDF (ex: the original 5e and anything 3e and earlier).

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I have ideas... a number of ideas, actually, for a 7th Edition of Champions/HERO System, but at the moment, I don't think Jason has any plans for a new version. Perhaps in a few more years the time will be right to reboot the system. 

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FWIW I have zero interest in another edition of core Hero System for the foreseeable future. IMHO the rules have been refined to hell and back by this point. I wouldn't expect any new edition to add substantial content or address glaring issues, just to reflect the preferences of the author/editor. And we all modify the rules for our own games according to our preferences anyway.

 

6E reprints would probably be desireable to a number of people, but aside from that I would rather see new things created using those rules.

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FWIW I have zero interest in another edition of core Hero System for the foreseeable future. IMHO the rules have been refined to hell and back by this point. I wouldn't expect any new edition to add substantial content or address glaring issues, just to reflect the preferences of the author/editor. And we all modify the rules for our own games according to our preferences anyway.

 

6E reprints would probably be desireable to a number of people, but aside from that I would rather see new things created using those rules.

 

Some of my ideas were to simplify conflict resolution (everything would be roll 3d6 and add) and to integrate HAP fully into the system. So, mostly fine tuning.

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Right now ease of access for new GM's is the biggest barrier to success for HERO.

 

I think a Book and electronic product similar to HeroDesigner designed for Campaign Rules (supporting the toolbox that is HERO) is what is really needed.  We've got plenty of Advanced PLAYER guide material but little in the way of Advanced GAME MASTER support (at least in one cohesive place beyond 6e2). 

 

*If a GameworldDesigner product ever does materialize it would be major bonus if it could interface with HeroDesigner as well.

 

My 2 GP

HM

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Who knows what the future brings. Maybe all the HERO System assets will fall into the hands of someone with a completely different vision for the system. *shrug*

 

Reprints (softcover) of the 6e core library would be trivial from a pure production standpoint; the only thing lacking is a willingness to make the books available through a place like RPGNow. And I'm mostly speaking about the two main rules volumes 6E1/6E2. Clearly there is a demand, even if only a modest demand, for them despite the transition to the Complete line as the official path fowards. I don't see a compelling reason to deny them to a hungry public, particularly seeing how making them available costs nothing in terms of overhead.

 

I've solved this problem by having my own softcover volumes printed from the PDFs. A reasonable alternative for those desperate for hardcopy who aren't obsessed with hard covers and who are willing to sacrifice color iterior pages to keep costs down (just like all the other softcover volumes).

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