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John Wick for 6e

keanu reeves

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#21 Hyper-Man

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Posted 23 August 2015 - 12:03 AM

Updated with more weapon and rules details.

 

Does anyone know if the Recoil Rules from Dark Champions are in addition to the normal auto-fire penalties when attacking a single target?

 

I think it would be awesome to break down and describe the play-by-play for one of the scenes from the movie.  I think the first part of the church scene is a good candidate.

 

Any takers?


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#22 Christopher R Taylor

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Posted 24 August 2015 - 07:23 PM

How so? He singlehandedly killed 13 people who were coming to ambush HIM.

 

Almost never by stealth though.  When he was going somewhere to do a hit, he just walked in the front door.  He didn't show up out of nowhere, he just walked in bold as day.  Not ghosty at all.

 

 

The church scene he used a lot of autofire and missed a lot too, sort of emphasizes the drawbacks of recoil.


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#23 Hyper-Man

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Posted 24 August 2015 - 08:47 PM

Almost never by stealth though.  When he was going somewhere to do a hit, he just walked in the front door.  He didn't show up out of nowhere, he just walked in bold as day.  Not ghosty at all.

 

 

The church scene he used a lot of autofire and missed a lot too, sort of emphasizes the drawbacks of recoil.

 

The beginning of the church scene was stealthy in the way he concealed the assault rifle.  I don't think he missed any shots inside the church.  The later 'misses' outside can be attributed to covering fire to keep the guards heads down.  Web analysis of his shooting stances showed that he used at least 3 different ones all designed to control recoil. 

 

I posit that his only true misses were the ones when the son escapes up the stairs from the basement pool and is behind bulletproof glass. The only time he didn't hit exactly what he was aiming for. He even nails 1 of the home invaders with blind/look-away shots by going prone and turning away to take advantage of his dark suit in the low lighting (effectively dodging the invader's shots).

 

**The character sheet has been updated with additional info gleamed from the web.


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#24 Hyper-Man

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Posted 27 August 2015 - 06:03 PM

re-added the text export output including equipment to the 1st post since HeroCentral is currently having an issue displaying the full html output.



#25 Wyrm Ouroboros

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Posted 08 September 2015 - 03:08 AM

... does he really need most of the autofire skills?  He uses burst-fire, yes, but from what I recall of the film (last I saw was, I dunno, 3-4 months ago?) most of his shots were aimed, even the bursts - focussing so much on the multiple targets in front of him (delayed actions / covering) that he gets blindsided by a frickin' SUV.  I'd have to watch it again (and I'm considering it, dammit), but I think most of his shots (trigger-pulls) are no less than a second apart, which could easily give you a 6 SPD and 'just' two PSLs to counter one additional multiple attack.  (And of course, he DOES try to use cover.)


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#26 Hyper-Man

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Posted 08 September 2015 - 10:23 AM

The build so far is focussed on what he possibly could do more than what he actually did.  As built he could go all 'Akimbo' and use 2 pistols at once*.  However, doing so would limit his use of Jujitsu/Judo (which was just as important as his gun skills in setting up easy kills by rendering the targets prone) and it would also make reloading a bit more complicated.

 

*I based his 2 weapon fighting on the scene in the club basement where he had a knife in one hand and a gun in the other.

 

Building the character with a 6 SPD and one of the extra weapon damage Talents would be the simplier approach to take but anyone who is familiar with my builds know I rarely go for simple.

 

:)

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#27 Wyrm Ouroboros

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Posted 09 September 2015 - 04:07 AM

Mmmm.  I can't deny the allure of building a 'look at what this guns-blazing guy can do' character, but ... to be honest, it doesn't strike me as what the character in question was about.

 

John Wick - both the character and the movie - isn't about the fantastico cinematico things you see with most gunbunny movies; he isn't 'Equilibrium' cool, or The Matrix a zillion bullets flying through the air at the same time.  The cinematic approach of the movie seems to me to be about doing it as realistically as possible; at one point, Wick even pulls the trigger on an empty chamber.  It's about what a guy who has made his life about using guns efficiently and ruthlessly does with those weapons - first in a place he knows intimately (his house), then in a place where he doesn't want a body count (well, not of non-combatants, anyhow, meaning the nightclub), then a place where he knows he's walking into an ambush (the Church), over to a place where he knows there are defenders to take out (the warehouse) and finally in a place where he's out to finish it (the car chase).  In each and every situation, Wick does his best to stack the deck in his favor; you can easily imagine him doing a bit of scouting of the church, and plotting out what moves he's going to have to accomplish to take out his targets - as well as why he made sure they were all in a single 120-degree arc, as compared to 180 or worse.  From what I see, Wick's primary concern at any given moment is the absolute control of his weapon; that accomplished, he can eliminate his target of the moment.

 

He sure doesn't go full-auto.  He and Neo are both going to walk into identical buildings, but Wick is going to be carrying a (relatively reasonable) number of weapons, as compared to a truly staggering loadout like Neo.  Wick will burst-fire single targets in order to either destroy cover or to punch through cover or armor; he's also using the heavy weapon (i.e. the assault rifle) as a psychological weapon, because 99% of his targets are not going to be used to a firefight with that sort of sound and punch.  Neo turns on the lead hose right away, and doesn't stop until the tiles are falling off the walls.  Wick doesn't take a shot that doesn't serve his purpose - he can't afford to.  Both characters are going to kill every guy in the building, but Neo's going to destroy the building while he does it, and waste a crapton of weapons and ammo.  Wick's going to have a 10% overage, and quite possibly emerge with a different gun than that with which he entered - because if a guy runs out of ammo for the weapon he has, he's gotta make do.

 

Wick the character, in my mind, is less about 'lookit all the gunstuff I can do!!' and more about the absolute drive and ruthlessness to do what needs to be done.  I'd make EGO his lead stat, and even go above 20 on that one (23-25 range); this character is all about the Will. This is a guy who will not stop until the task is done.  He gets shot, he gets stabbed, he takes a full one-story fall onto his back, and he goes to the doc and is perfectly willing to pop the reds in order to get full mobility, tear out his stitches, and finish the job; he's gonna make that Ego roll.

 

So sure, he needs skills - but not all the autofire skills.  Rapid Autofire, Rapid Attack, absolutely - he sure as hell seems to be shifting targets twice as fast as anyone else in there, and yeah, it's because he's that good.  The rest of the autofire skills, though, are definitely not necessary ...

 

... but all the rest of it, yeah.  :) 


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#28 Old Man

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Posted 09 September 2015 - 02:32 PM

Wick is definitely more about handguns than autofire in the film, but there's not much evidence one way or the other about his autofire skills.  Rather like how Matthew Quigley didn't care for pistols. ;)


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...and that's when the destruction began.

#29 freakboy6117

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Posted 09 September 2015 - 05:20 PM

Finally saw it today did i spot J. K. Simmons (JJ jameson in spiderman) as part of the cleaning crew



#30 Old Man

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Posted 09 September 2015 - 07:31 PM

Now that we've statted out John Wick, we also need to stat out:

 

- Neo (One version)

- Jack Traven

- Johnny Utah

- Johnny Mnemonic

- Jonathan Harker

- John Constantine


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#31 Hyper-Man

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 04:19 PM

Finally saw it today did i spot J. K. Simmons (JJ jameson in spiderman) as part of the cleaning crew

 

I don't think so.  I don't see his name listed as part of the cast according to http://www.imdb.com/...66/fullcredits/ but not all of the names have pics attached either.  I'm pretty sure it was another actor who just looks a lot like him.



#32 Hyper-Man

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 04:49 PM

Wick is definitely more about handguns than autofire in the film, but there's not much evidence one way or the other about his autofire skills.  Rather like how Matthew Quigley didn't care for pistols. ;)

 

I have watched the film at least half a dozen times the last month on HBO and it sure seems like he used a double-tap, triple-tap and even what looked like a quadruple-tap with his pistol on one occasion.  I know the Power I added to the build (Quick Fire: Naked Autofire with a Pistol of Opportunity) is not absolutely necessary with the Multiple Attack rules in 6e.  However, it sure seemed appropriate* in the way that he would rattle off so many pistol shots in a smooth and extremely fast rhythm that didn't seem to break even when he chose different targets during the shot sequence.

 

*I think the number of required attack rolls would be reduced with its use as well.


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#33 Susano

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 08:10 PM

Now that we've statted out John Wick, we also need to stat out:

 

- Neo (One version)

- Jack Traven

- Johnny Utah

- Johnny Mnemonic

- Jonathan Harker

- John Constantine

I have Sam (http://surbrook.deve.../ronin/sam.html) and Vincent (http://surbrook.devermore.net/adaptationsmovie/asstd_movie/vincent.html).


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#34 Hyper-Man

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 09:47 PM

Now that we've statted out John Wick, we also need to stat out:

 

- Neo (One version)

- Jack Traven

- Johnny Utah

- Johnny Mnemonic

- Jonathan Harker

- John Constantine

 

Are you making a case for Keanu Reeves being an Eternal Champion of the Multiverse? :P



#35 Old Man

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Posted 11 September 2015 - 01:31 AM

I'm making a case that his real name is John.
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#36 Hyper-Man

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Posted 11 September 2015 - 04:15 PM

I think his real name is Theodore.

 

Spoiler


#37 freakboy6117

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Posted 12 September 2015 - 02:27 AM

a lot of his attacks seem like a they might be better written as a weapon element for his martial arts he certainly uses his gun as a close combat weapon. pistol whipping as well as super close range rapid fire just like he does with his knife . seem to recall him using it as a sound/ vision flash firing close to an opponent's head to disorient and distract.



#38 Hyper-Man

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Posted 12 September 2015 - 03:29 AM

a lot of his attacks seem like a they might be better written as a weapon element for his martial arts he certainly uses his gun as a close combat weapon. pistol whipping as well as super close range rapid fire just like he does with his knife . seem to recall him using it as a sound/ vision flash firing close to an opponent's head to disorient and distract.

 

I already added Handguns as a Weapon Element on the recommendation of Old Man up thread.

Jujutsu
6 1) Weapon Element: Blades, Clubs, Default Element, Garrote, Handguns, Karate Weapons, Polearms and Spears

 

 

I don't know if I would create a build for possible hearing/sight Flash effects when he fires his primary handgun near a targets head but the custom Recoil Compensator he has on his H&K P30L primary handgun makes the gun louder than normal by default. I would probably leave something like that up to the GM to assign as an environmental effect.

+1 to offset Recoil modifiers with the P30L; OAF (Type 1 Recoil Compensator; -1), Side Effects, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (+1 Hearing PER Rolls; -1/2), Real Weapon (-1/4) (Real Cost: 1)

 



#39 Wyrm Ouroboros

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Posted 13 September 2015 - 09:56 PM

 

Finally saw it today did i spot J. K. Simmons (JJ jameson in spiderman) as part of the cleaning crew


I don't think so.  I don't see his name listed as part of the cast according to http://www.imdb.com/...66/fullcredits/ but not all of the names have pics attached either.  I'm pretty sure it was another actor who just looks a lot like him.

 


I watched it again, specifically eyeballing the cleanup crew at the house looking for him. It wasn't him, though the resemblance on a quick pass by the camera was strong enough to make you think it might've been him.


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"An inability to handle mathematics or politics is a sign of a subnormal mind." -- The Wyrm Ouroboros

"Look, I could kill you, but then I'd have to fill out paperwork.  I hate paperwork.  Even more than I hate you." -- Phineas Phentari

 


#40 Hyper-Man

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Posted 16 September 2015 - 12:48 AM

The build (see the 1st post in this thread) has been updated based on suggestions from Wyrm Ouroboros.

(Though I didn't increase EGO above 15 it could easily be swapped with his 20 PRE). 

 

I removed some Autofire Skills, Two Weapon Fighting, duplicate Martial Maneuvers and added other Skills. 

I improved his ability to "Autofire" semi-automatic weapons of opportunity.

I cleaned up the weapons builds including links to various pictures. 

 

The AP 9mm handgun alternates are just there for comparison (IF he has access to a fully automatic assault rifle and thermite grenades, THEN he shouldn't have a problem obtaining AP handgun ammunition.  Whether he wants to leave shell casing evidence of their use is another issue). 

The 2 different garotte builds are also there for comparison.  It's hard to say which is the better option.