SteveS Posted August 23, 2015 Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 I've been working on a super hero who has a force field they create which provides them the effects of life support (which is linked to it). Recently they picked up Protects Carried Items for the base force field. I want to extend the effects of life support to the people in the force field as well. Would it be reasonable to apply the same adder to the life support to accomplish it? I've looking into usable by other as an option, but it seems needlessly complicated as a solution. If any one has reasons for building it way or another I'd love to hear your opinions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
massey Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 I'd think it's fine to let the Protects Carried on the FF to apply to the LS for free. With them linked together as one power, I don't think there's any need to charge the guy twice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 I think it depends on what benefits are being granted by the Life Support in question. I would cost it out the RAW method (UBO Simultaneously with Linked to FF) and see if the final real cost is close to the Adder's cost. If so, I see no reason not to allow it as a campaign/house rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 I think you can tuck this under special effect (and with resistant protection, for that matter) rather than needing a cost for it. Its not that huge a deal, honestly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndianaJoe3 Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 I've looking into usable by other as an option, but it seems needlessly complicated as a solution. If any one has reasons for building it way or another I'd love to hear your opinions. I'd probably use, "Usable By Nearby" (6e) because it's RAW. I'm not seeing the same complexity that you are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 Get a copy of Hero Designer. It makes building this extremely easy. 31 Energy Force Field: Resistant Protection (15 PD/15 ED) (Protect Carried Items) (55 Active Points); Perceivable (-1/2), Nonpersistent (-1/4) - END=016 Environmental Force Field: LS (Immunity All terrestrial poisons; Immunity: All terrestrial diseases; Safe in High Pressure; Safe in High Radiation; Safe in Intense Cold; Safe in Intense Heat; Safe in Low Pressure/Vacuum; Self-Contained Breathing), Usable Simultaneously (up to 2 people at once; +1/4), Recipient must remain close to Grantor, Grantor can take back power at any time (36 Active Points); Linked (Energy Force Field; -1/2), Perceivable (-1/2), Nonpersistent (-1/4) - END=0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christougher Posted August 30, 2015 Report Share Posted August 30, 2015 My campaigns have turned "Protects Carried" into a generic "Affects Carried" adder that can be applied to Density Increase, Desolid, Growth, Shrinking, Invisibility, Stretching... Well, pretty much anything. So I see no reason not to add Life Support to the list. On the other hand, these are all designed to affect carried OBJECTS, not other people. So, why would an object need Life Support? If you're trying to protect another person, you need some flavor of Usable by Others; Protects Carried does not cut it. Chris. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted August 30, 2015 Report Share Posted August 30, 2015 On the other hand, these are all designed to affect carried OBJECTS, not other people. So, why would an object need Life Support? Extreme heat, radiation, the vacuum of space, the pressure of the ocean depths - seems like these all affect a lot of objects. Many fires do more damage due to smoke - self-contained breathing would protect those objects from smoke damage. Maybe enabling Our Hero to retrieve the records needed to convict the Kingpin of Crime from the burning high rise where they were stored. Let's take this to an extreme in the shades of grey - is an infant (perhaps one our hero is rescuing from a similarly burning, smoke-filled building) to be treated as a carried object or a second person for this purpose? Would you let the infant be protected from gunfire if that was a Force Field that affects carried objects? Or does the baby blanket survive while the baby within is shot? When the lines blur, I'm inclined to permit a reasonable interpretation. If the Hero wants to grab a civilian in a bear hug to share his Force Field or Life Support, that seems like a Carried Object. He won't often be bear hugging a teammate in combat for similar effect, as that will have some other significant implications on their combat effectiveness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdamnhero Posted September 5, 2015 Report Share Posted September 5, 2015 I think it's perfectly legal to apply Protects Carried to LS. Indeed, if the force field already has Protects Carried on the Def, and the LS part of the same force field, I can't think of an sfx reason not to do so. I think I would probably charge points for the 2nd Protects Carried, rather than giving it for free because the Linked Power already has it, as I don't like setting that as a precedent. However, a 10-point Adder is a lot compared to the base cost of LS, so I might make Protects Carried a +1/4 (?) Advantage rather than an Adder. But that could just be me. 31 Energy Force Field: Resistant Protection (15 PD/15 ED) (Protect Carried Items) (55 Active Points); Perceivable (-1/2), Nonpersistent (-1/4) - END=016 Environmental Force Field: LS (Immunity All terrestrial poisons; Immunity: All terrestrial diseases; Safe in High Pressure; Safe in High Radiation; Safe in Intense Cold; Safe in Intense Heat; Safe in Low Pressure/Vacuum; Self-Contained Breathing), Usable Simultaneously (up to 2 people at once; +1/4), Recipient must remain close to Grantor, Grantor can take back power at any time (36 Active Points); Linked (Energy Force Field; -1/2), Perceivable (-1/2), Nonpersistent (-1/4) - END=0 Yeah, I guess Usable Simultaneously would also work, but to me allowing Protects Carried Items at the same cost seems cleaner, and aligns more clearly with the Defense part of the force field. It seems like Usable Simultaneously might work slightly differently than Protects Carried, so it seems like it could cause complications if part of the force field worked one way and another part worked differently. is an infant (perhaps one our hero is rescuing from a similarly burning, smoke-filled building) to be treated as a carried object or a second person for this purpose? Would you let the infant be protected from gunfire if that was a Force Field that affects carried objects? By RAW, if the Def is bought with Protects Carried, then the character can choose to extend that coverage to the carried baby. To me, it makes sense that the LS provided by the same force field should work exactly the same way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted September 5, 2015 Report Share Posted September 5, 2015 FWIW, here are the same example builds minus Protects Carried and Usable Simultaneously. 26 Energy Force Field: Resistant Protection (15 PD/15 ED) (45 Active Points); Perceivable (-1/2), Nonpersistent (-1/4) - END=013 Environmental Force Field: LS (Immunity All terrestrial poisons; Immunity: All terrestrial diseases; Safe in High Pressure; Safe in High Radiation; Safe in Intense Cold; Safe in Intense Heat; Safe in Low Pressure/Vacuum; Self-Contained Breathing) (29 Active Points); Linked (Energy Force Field; -1/2), Perceivable (-1/2), Nonpersistent (-1/4) - END=0 Note that removal of Protects reduces the Real cost by 5 and removal of Usable Simultaneously reduces the Real cost by 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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