Opale Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 A little insight is wished here. When I revisit the follower Perk, I see that in 5th edition the cost of a follower is the base cost not including the Disadvantages costs When I look at 6ED, I'm not sure if that still works ? So what ? And then ? It makes having a sidekick very costly doesn't it ? Or am I missing something ? And for a good measure, how "strong" should a sidekick be for a classical 400 Points character ? If someone has hints about the topic Sidekicking Opale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 Well, you are still getting, say, a 200 pt character for an expenditure of only 40 pts, so one might argue it's not that "costly." But yes, you don't get a break for Complications or Disadavantages. Which is why I don't balk much at something like "Psychological Complication: Loyal." If a Disadvantage that doesn't hinder the character isn't worth any points, then a Disadvantage that isn't worth any points doesn't need to hinder the character. Technically, you can put Limitations on a Follower. So while the Complication "Unreliable" doesn't change the cost, the Limitation "Activation Roll" does. But I suspect most Limitations either don't make sense or would be too munchkin; remember, by default a Follower won't always be around, won't always do exactly what you would have preferred, sometimes may even temporarily become a DNPC like liability, etc. "Only in Alternate ID" might work though for a Follower who doesn't know the hero's Secret ID. Lucius Alexander Only in Palindromedary ID Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opale Posted August 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 Thanks Lucius for your appreciated insight Still, for a 400 points PC, on how many points should a classical sidekick be built ? Opale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba smith Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 200 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheQuestionMan Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 Depends on the form of the Sidekick. Kid Hero/Teen Champion - all Robin/Dick Grayson. He was trained by the Batman and both alternatively rescued the other. He had access to all those Resources too. (How to calculate that I have no clue.) Robot/Familiar - both will possess Inherient Powers that will increase their worth. Semi-Retired Mentor/Creator - Legacy Heroes and Heroes dependant on others for Powers. Other Forms later... QM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 I think the ideal way to have sidekicks is to get someone else in the gaming group who likes role playing to be your sidekick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assault Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 It's easy to justify a sidekick that can be built on the same number of points as the "main" character. - some would be practically identical within a relatively few points. - some would have significantly different skill sets of comparable value (eg Kato and the Green Hornet) - some would be physically, although not mentally, superior to the boss. (eg Stripesy and the Star-Spangled Kid) - some could actually be mentally superior, although untrained (hypothetical - a teenage genius/gadgeteer being trained as a sidekick) Most generally aren't of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoloOfEarth Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 In 6th, I'd say a 200-point Follower would be bare minimum. Even slightly increased Characteristics (15 STR / DEX / CON, 3 SPD, etc.) will cost 50 points at least. Personally, I'd shoot for 250 to 275 points. I'd want the Follower to be at least moderately effective. As a GM, if the player pays the points I would disagree with having the Follower not be around or not work well with the hero nearly all of the time, and am not fond of using one as a DNPC. After all, 40-55 points is a pretty hefty investment. If the character put 50 points into a VPP gadget pool, would you summarily say, "Sorry, your gadgets are out for the night" or "You can't have a hologram generator right now - you're going to have to make do with a pack of smoke grenades and a flight belt"? (Of course, putting Limitations like "Can Only Change in a Lab" into play is permissible to keep the player from altering the makeup of his gadget pool, but that's different from making the VPP completely unavailable.) That said, in past campaigns I have given several PCs sidekicks, free of charge. In those cases, I have had the sidekick unavailable at times, or occasionally work at cross purposes with the hero, or fall into the DNPC role. And in all cases, I've written up the sidekick character with only moderate input from the player, and played the sidekick to be roughly equal parts helpful and hindrance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opale Posted August 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 Thanks all for the insights Personally I think that a sidekick, been indeed a hefty amount of points in a PC sheet - as Boloof Earht said - should be both similar AND significantly different from his boss. For instance, one of my PC is playing a Silent Path Taijutsu Demon Hunter Ninja. And he has a secret love for a DNPC (so fun scenes ! ) with an ex heroine (now built on 100 points), who lost her powers but stayed around the super group. Now, he's fearing for her life, as, of course, she wants to be part of the action, and put herself in all kind of dangerous situations. So, the PC proposed her to train her so she could be more assured and capable. If it seems good to imagine she could learn martial arts with him, but no fun to have her as a copycat of his own abilities. I guess similarity should be between 50-75% and the rest full of surprises and novelties, based on the character past, attitude, and abilities. ABOUT abilities : I figured out that such a training would take some major time in the campaign and dedication from the trained character. But how long ? My first thought is it would take years. Or the DNPC would have a travel to a special place where the training could be accelerated. What do you think ? I want to make it coherent, but not too long either. Opale, doing morning push-ups, katas and ukemis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoloOfEarth Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 Hmmm... If the potential sidekick is currently a DNPC, unless the PC is planning to both pay off the DNPC Complication and pay points for the Follower, it sounds like the sidekick is probably going to remain a DNPC. So point totals are entirely up to the GM, and the character will continue to be a Complication (so, more hindrance than help). I'm reminded of the Black Cat, who originally had no real powers and wanted to work alongside Spider-man, but he feared she would get hurt or killed. So she went behind Spidey's back and got powers on her own -- from the Kingpin, as it turned out, though she didn't know it until after the deed was done. Perhaps the DNPC in your case could do something similar -- in her eagerness to get back into the superhero game, she goes to someone on the gray side of the law to speed up the process. Maybe whatever that person does allows her to instantly learn what the PC is trying to teach her (so training takes weeks instead of years), but there are side effects. That would explain the surprises and novelties. It's up to the GM whether the person helping her did this intentionally with a darker purpose, or if those side effects are completely unintentional, based on her previously having powers. (Maybe her powers weren't completely gone, just inaccessible and maybe altered slightly, and the speed-up process unlocks them somewhat.) Just my thoughts on the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opale Posted August 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 Thanks Bolo Indeed, this couple of PC/DNPC works very similarily to this Spidey/Black Cat thingy you describe to me. And for instance, the DNPC got her powers long time ago from ingesting the Elixir of Life, that was purged from her organism. It could act as a catalyst to any other empowering effect... Might be a good clue. Plotting Opale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinecone Posted August 29, 2015 Report Share Posted August 29, 2015 One way to have two "Ninjas" not toe step, is to make sure they have different signatures. So if Demon slayer Kenta uses mostly Taijutsu, maybe Witch slayer Aiko can specialize is gadgets, and weapons...? Example Kenta focuses his ki, and uses his demon vanquishing strike, Aiko uses an Uzi loaded with blessed bullets... And in a 400 point game 250 to 300 sounds about "right". If she is a DNPC, she can also transition to DNPC: Useful spend points to buy off the lim, instead of buying a Follower... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opale Posted August 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2015 @Pinecone yes, I think she might even turn to a full heroine, and not a sidekick anymore. I'm actually giving a thought about creating an all-women ninja clan, with abilities more based on charm than combat. Ninja Opale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Arc Posted August 30, 2015 Report Share Posted August 30, 2015 So if Yohko Mano is the hero then Azusa Kanzaki must be her side kick. Of course this also makes me think of Big Daddy and Hit Girl. Would you consider Hit Girl to be a side kick or something completely different? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinecone Posted August 30, 2015 Report Share Posted August 30, 2015 Kicka** is Hitgirls sidekick.. When she purchased him, the GM killed off the old one dramaticly to advance the story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinecone Posted August 30, 2015 Report Share Posted August 30, 2015 @Pinecone yes, I think she might even turn to a full heroine, and not a sidekick anymore. I'm actually giving a thought about creating an all-women ninja clan, with abilities more based on charm than combat. Ninja Opale Sounds good Illusion and Shapeshifting are very good top end Ninja skills. I never went "Valkyrie Ninja!" lol, but my "clan" of Spider Ninjas is headed by a female...Spiders are the spymaster, blackmailer types. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opale Posted August 31, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 Thanks for the help For a view of what this back-to-be heroine build, see here http://www.herogames.com/forums/topic/91871-knockout-a-ninjette-without-martial-maneuver/ Opale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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