Powers champions missed

[Vanquisher]

Some powers I'm trying to work up.

 

Invulnerability

Characters with this power do not take body damage and their PD and ED are resistant

Cost 75 character points

 

Immortal

Characters with this power can't die.

Characters who would have died slowly heal damage normally or regenerate or use an aid to body to recover body damage.

The character is unconscious and unable to move when he should be dead.

Cost 10 character points

 

Doesn't Bleed

Characters with this power don't bleed.

5 character points

 

I'm working on rules for the following five powers

 

1. Prophecy

2. Resurrection

3. Mind swapping

4. Spirit swapping

5. Possession

 

[Hyper-Man]

Sounds like a great set of campaign house rules.

 

The cost of absolutes like those should always be campaign specific though.

 

I'm pretty sure Does Not Bleed is already in the core rules as one of the Automaton abilities.

 

I think most if not all of the others have been covered in the two Advanced Players Guides for 6e and in the Ultimate Series for 5e.

 

HM

[Scott Baker]

These aren't so much "missed" as they already exist.

 

Invulnerability: This sounds like an absolute (CC 8), or at best a plot device. Not something I would worrying about building for a player--as a GM, points just don't matter. Also, as you documented, the resistant defense is pointless if you're saying that no BODY damage is done. If you have to build this, look at Damage Reduction (CC 56) as the basis (extrapolate for 100% and limited to BODY only).

 

Immortal: This appears to already be covered by Life Support and Regeneration (at least in 6E1). The only apparent difference is you set a lower cost.

 

Doesn't Bleed: Already there as Does Not Bleed (CC 58)

 

Prophecy: If this isn't a plot device then it sounds like Precognition (Clairsentience; CC 54)

Resurrection: Regeneration (at least in 6E1)

Posession: Possession (APG1 74)

Mind Swap: Part of Possession (APG1 74)

 

I don't know what effect you intend spirit swapping to represent, so....

 

(And Hyperman posts while I'm still typing.)

Edited August 26, 2015 by Scott Baker

[Tech]

Some powers I'm trying to work up.

 

Invulnerability

Characters with this power do not take body damage and their PD and ED are resistant

Cost 75 character points

 

Immortal

Characters with this power can't die.

Characters who would have died slowly heal damage normally or regenerate or use an aid to body to recover body damage.

The character is unconscious and unable to move when he should be dead.

Cost 10 character points

 

Doesn't Bleed

Characters with this power don't bleed.

5 character points

 

I'm working on rules for the following five powers

 

1. Prophecy

2. Resurrection

3. Mind swapping

4. Spirit swapping

5. Possession

 

Hyper-Man is correct. Pointing out a few below (although my suggestion for your Invulnerability power is also listed below):

 

Invulnerability I might make 60 points. 75 seems a bit too much.

 

Character doesn't bleed is covered by the Automaton Special Power "Does Not Bleed" 15 pts

 

Prophecy is a special effect of Precognition power

 

Resurrection is already covered in the Healing power.

[Vanquisher]

Sorry people didn't like the powers. I am as yet without Champions 6E

[Comic]

Invulnerability: work out the cost of the DEF against the largest attack in the campaign, and call that the cost of Invulnerability to that type of attack.

 

Your campaign is on a regular planet Earth, with 30D6 falling damage?

 

180 PD should cover it if you're not working against increased mass rules, at 180 AP; take a -2 limitation for Invulnerable to Falling Only (include falling-like damage such as being thrown, knockback damaged, or hit by a bus): total cost 60 AP for that type of Invulnerability. If you already have 30 PD, then it's only 50 AP to be Invulnerable to falls, KB and AE attacks that flatten you like you'd fallen at terminal velocity.

 

Have that, and want it to apply to all Physical Damage?

 

Biggest Physical KA in your campaign is 4D6? You can get 24 Resistant Defense for 12 AP. That should cover every non-penetrating, and almost every AP form of Physical damage for 192 points. 

 

Energy Invulnerability ought be far cheaper, at 120 ED and 24 Resistant Defense, a mere 132 AP.

 

Paying only 75 points for over 324 points worth of effect? Seems too steep a discount, and by far.

 

Even if you agree that statistically many of the points are wasted: at 30d6, you'll hardly ever get more than one standard deviation from average (about the same as max Stun from a 4D6 KA), so it's fair to ignore hardened or impenetrable advantages. Even the Stun Lotto effect on 4D6 KA is exceedingly rare, so some discount is plausible.

 

And sure, a clever builder -- I'm looking at Hyperman here -- could stack appropriate Damage Neutralization dice in there to economize, but it's still well over 200 points worth as a power.

 

I prefer Invulnerability to be limited to a special effect: Invulnerability to Fire for Daenerys Stormborn, for 44 AP, seems perfectly balanced to me. Hit her with lightning or a sword, she's toast; try to burn her and she doesn't even singe a little.

[Christopher]

Invlunerability is an absolute.

Hero does not do absolutes, because they ALWAYS end up causing more issues then they could possibly solve.

You character is absolutely invulnerable to fire. Normal fire? Superhuman level fire? Magma Bath? Center of the Sun? What if I throw him into a white hole, move him into the big bang or expose him to Plank Heat?

Or what if somebody has an absolutely unblockable fire offense, wich of the two is more absolute?

http://www.herogames.com/forums/index.php?/topic/87378-translating-characters-from-fiction-and-the-secret-of-having-fun-in-roleplaying/

Every absolute they ever threw out in comics, had something more absolute that could overcome it. Wich means neither of them is absolute to begin with and you shold just stat it out already.

 

For heroic games there is a guideline how you can make a campaign rule of invlunerability: Just take the highest possible attack on the highest possible roll for this setting, buy enough rDefenses to cover it and call it "Invulnerability" (for this setting).

One of the APG's has rules for 100% damage reduction. But of course Penetrating can still overcome it and the price is acceptably.

 

Immortal:

Unlimited regeneration without a effect that stops it? Yeah, not going to happen. At least not in any form of balanced power.

The not die of age part is easy, Life Support Longelivity: Does not Age.

 

Does not bleed:

In 5E and before this was part of being an Automaton.

In 6E the Automaton powers got seperated out into the "Automaton Powers" group. It has been used to build future healing gear (stops bleeding instantly).

 

1. Prophecy

2. Resurrection

3. Mind swapping

4. Spirit swapping

5. Possession

1. The question is what game effect that would have. By RAW you can use Clairsentience to look into the Future. But prophey and future are a whole bunch of unique issues that fill whole chapters in RPG materials. Consider just declaring the uncertainty principle to be in effect:

www.herogames.com/forums/index.php?/topic/87678-dealing-with-prediction-or-the-uncertainty-principle/

 

2. Healing or Regeneration, with Resurrection adder. Of course for balancing reasons both need a weakpoint/special effect they can not work on anymore. Otherwise we would have an absolute and those always cause issues.

 

3. APG has Posession, with the limited form "Body swap" (other guy ends up in yours).

 

4. What is this "Spirit" and how does swapping it affect either side of the swap?

 

5. APG's have 2 different versions. One based on Desolid, one a seperate mental power.

[Ninja-Bear]

Invulnerable: desolid versus special effect and all powers and strength bought afects real world.

[Hugh Neilson]

Invulnerability: work out the cost of the DEF against the largest attack in the campaign, and call that the cost of Invulnerability to that type of attack.

Agreed, but the OP says the target doesn't take BOD damage, not that he takes no STUN damage, so:

 

Your campaign is on a regular planet Earth, with 30D6 falling damage?

30 PD covers the likely roll, and 60 covers the maximum. Either will cover any attack the character is likely to come across. What if we said 36 rPD, which is 54 points, which only applies against BOD damage, which is at least a -1, so 27 points. You'll need it for energy as well, so that's 54. But you already have some rDEF, in all likelihood, and you only need to add enough to reach these levels, reducing the cost. Of course, you also need exotic defenses for those exotic attacks, which would increase the cost. 60 - 75 does not seem a wholly unreasonable cost for the absolute effect. But it's a big chunk of your character points with the only impact being that your character can't die.

 

That's the only one that "doesn't exist" in either the core or APG rules, unless we are missing something on that Spirit Swap power.

[Scott Baker]

For heroic games there is a guideline how you can make a campaign rule of invlunerability: Just take the highest possible attack on the highest possible roll for this setting, buy enough rDefenses to cover it and call it "Invulnerability" (for this setting).

One of the APG's has rules for 100% damage reduction. But of course Penetrating can still overcome it and the price is acceptably.

This isn't "for heroic games". It's just an option in 6E1.

[massey]

Hero does not do absolutes, because they ALWAYS

Ha.

[steriaca]

Their is never a power unbuildable in the Hero System. Spirit Swap? Transform (about 10AP per dice) to transform the spirit of a person to an exact copy of your own, and Shapeshift (spirit, to appear to have the spirit pf the transform target), Trigger (when Transform has enough to work).

[Lucius]

Not a matter of "didn't like the Powers." A matter of mostly "these already exist."

 

And in some cases of "You probably know what you mean, but no one else does until you explain it."

 

Lucius Alexander

 

For example, you probably have no idea what a palindromedary is and therefore no opinion on them.

[Comic]

Agreed, but the OP says the target doesn't take BOD damage, not that he takes no STUN damage, so:

 

 

30 PD covers the likely roll, and 60 covers the maximum. Either will cover any attack the character is likely to come across. What if we said 36 rPD, which is 54 points, which only applies against BOD damage, which is at least a -1, so 27 points. You'll need it for energy as well, so that's 54. But you already have some rDEF, in all likelihood, and you only need to add enough to reach these levels, reducing the cost. Of course, you also need exotic defenses for those exotic attacks, which would increase the cost. 60 - 75 does not seem a wholly unreasonable cost for the absolute effect. But it's a big chunk of your character points with the only impact being that your character can't die.

 

That's the only one that "doesn't exist" in either the core or APG rules, unless we are missing something on that Spirit Swap power.

 

Absolutely, there's a big difference between Invulnerable to BODY, and Invulnerable to STUN.

 

60 PD, in a game with a 60 AP cap on attack powers, the BODY of the largest KA is still only 24, which takes only 12 points more to make resistant, for a total of 72.

 

There's no "Energy Falling", but if there's a steel mill or volcano handy, or "Falling Into The Sun", then we need a reasonable Energy Defense for that. For the rarity of solar falling in most campaigns, I'd call it equal to the PD price.

 

144 AP, with a -1 Limitation, BODY Only, comes in around 72 AP, less when defenses that protect against STUN damage are subtracted.

 

Can't disagree 75 AP to also ignore penetrating is fair. My bad. Carry on.

[Christopher]

Ha.

Is there any absolute rule without mandatory weakness I am not aware of?

Last I checked Desolid had to lockout of offensives and required weakness Special Effect.

Everything with Resurrection has a required weak special effect.

 

Or was this about how the only absolute about absolutes is, that they (absolutely) always lead to problems?

Because that is not an absolute in any Rule (RAW or Campaign), so it does not suffer from the "absolute constructs alwas cause issues" problem.

 

Their is never a power unbuildable in the Hero System. Spirit Swap? Transform (about 10AP per dice) to transform the spirit of a person to an exact copy of your own, and Shapeshift (spirit, to appear to have the spirit pf the transform target), Trigger (when Transform has enough to work).

There are a few mention of "Spirit" as a game terminology in the rules. The Transform example had slipped my mind.

Sometimes it is used like "Soul". Sometimes like "Entities remnants summoned from afterlife". And sometimes like a synonym for Mind (class) or a special effect of Projection.

But the first question is always what the game effect of this is. So what does swapping your spirit with someone else "do" to either party?

[Hugh Neilson]

It can also refer to something more mundane... in which case a simple Professional Skill should do the trick.

[Scott Baker]

Is there any absolute rule without mandatory weakness I am not aware of?

6E1 133 (optional with a warning sign).

[Christopher R Taylor]

The way I've handled a "prophecy" type power is to use a build around clairsentience sight (maybe hearing) with precognition and limitations to make it unclear and controllable by the GM, such as how long in the future, no conscious control etc.

 

Of course you can also add DCV, danger sense, etc into the mix.  I recommend the film Next for some pretty clever ideas on how to use seeing the future