steph Posted August 29, 2015 Report Share Posted August 29, 2015 hey guys, A sorcerer in my fantasy game use a VPP for is magic with the limitation (extra time: Full Phase to cast all is spell) The sorcerer got a speed of 3 : Now in segment 4 the caster use is phase to draw a sword in a half-phase. ''no fast draw'' and desire to take is last half phase to start preparing a spell and cast it at the end of is half phase on segment 8. Is it legal ? Hope i am clear Steph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Baker Posted August 29, 2015 Report Share Posted August 29, 2015 No (CC 104; FHC 124). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steph Posted August 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2015 No (CC 104; FHC 124). ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted August 29, 2015 Report Share Posted August 29, 2015 Page references for the specific rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Baker Posted August 29, 2015 Report Share Posted August 29, 2015 CC = Champions Complete. FHC = Fantasy Hero Complete. The numbers are page numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted August 29, 2015 Report Share Posted August 29, 2015 I think he could. But since he was finishing the attack action on his 8th segment phase, the phase would be over there and then with finishing that spell.He could not use his remaining half action from 8th segment phase or even make free actions before finishing the Full Phase Attack action. And you can't do anything past an attack action (not even free actions). So all he would do is increase the time in wich enmies can interrupt his spell. By several segments. He is better off making an attack in 3rd segment phase or preserving his half phase for defensive actions until his 8th phase comes around. Also, have you considered the time to switch the VPP? By default VPP's need a full phase to switch the "slots". That is the price for being able to whip up any spell on the fly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Baker Posted August 29, 2015 Report Share Posted August 29, 2015 I think he could. Not by RAW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted August 29, 2015 Report Share Posted August 29, 2015 hey guys, A sorcerer in my fantasy game use a VPP for is magic with the limitation (extra time: Full Phase to cast all is spell) The sorcerer got a speed of 3 : Now in segment 4 the caster use is phase to draw a sword in a half-phase. ''no fast draw'' and desire to take is last half phase to start preparing a spell and cast it at the end of is half phase on segment 8. Is it legal ? Hope i am clear Steph No (CC 104; FHC 124). I think the wording of the original question is a little confusing because we don't know all the Modifiers on the base VPP (specifically, whether it has any advantages to reduce the time required to change Powers or Requires a Roll to change Powers). From CC p104 Extra TimeFull Phase: The power requires the character’s Full Phase to activate and use. It still activates at his DEX, but he may only perform Zero Phase in that Phase (before activating the power). If the power already takes a Full Phase to use normally (such as Extra-Dimensional Movement), treat this as Extra Phase (below), and Extra Phase may not be taken for it. Extra Phase: As Full Phase, plus the character’s entire next Phase. It activates on the character’s DEX in the second Phase, or at half of his DEX, if combined with Delayed Phase (characters cannot combine Extra Phase with any Extra Time period other than Delayed Phase). If the character Aborts before the power activates, the power does not work. Drawing a weapon on Phase 4 takes a Half Phase. IF changing the 'spell' selection of the VPP requires a Half Phase action THEN the answer to the original question is a sort-of YES. The remaining Half Phase action of Phase 4 can be applied to CHANGING the VPP. Then the character's Full Phase action of Phase 8 can be used to actually CAST the spell. If the VPP takes a Full Phase to Change then the actual spell could not be cast until Phase 12. Hopefully the following 3 example Magic VPP's will illustrate what I mean a little better. 60 Magic Pool - Full Phase to Change: Variable Power Pool (Magic Pool), 40 base + 60 control cost, (70 Active Points); all slots Extra Time (Full Phase, -1/2) 0 1) Magic Blast: Blast 8d6, Area Of Effect Accurate (4m Radius; +1/2) (60 Active Points) Real Cost: 40 - END=6 70 Magic Pool - Half Phase to Change: Variable Power Pool (Magic Pool), 40 base + 60 control cost, Powers Can Be Changed As A Half-Phase Action (+1/2) (85 Active Points); all slots Extra Time (Full Phase, -1/2) 0 1) Magic Blast: Blast 8d6, Area Of Effect Accurate (4m Radius; +1/2) (60 Active Points) Real Cost: 40 - END=6 80 Magic Pool - Zero Phase to Change: Variable Power Pool (Magic Pool), 40 base + 60 control cost, Powers Can Be Changed As A Zero-Phase Action (+1) (100 Active Points); all slots Extra Time (Full Phase, -1/2) 0 1) Magic Blast: Blast 8d6, Area Of Effect Accurate (4m Radius; +1/2) (60 Active Points) Real Cost: 40 - END=6 HM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted August 29, 2015 Report Share Posted August 29, 2015 I confess that extra time sort of confuses me because there's several kinds of extra time: 1) This spell takes a certain amount of time to cast, and that's all the caster can do while he's working on it. 2) This gun has a delay between when you pull the trigger and the shot goes off, like a matchlock. 3) I can cast this spell and walk away, but it doesn't take effect until the extra time is complete. Now... Extra Time seems to do all of those, but... does it? And how? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmjalund Posted August 29, 2015 Report Share Posted August 29, 2015 Ithink 3) is actually "Time Delay" rather than Extra Time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Baker Posted August 29, 2015 Report Share Posted August 29, 2015 I think the wording of the original question is a little confusing because we don't know all the Modifiers on the base VPP (specifically, whether it has any advantages to reduce the time required to change Powers or Requires a Roll to change Powers). From CC p104 Drawing a weapon on Phase 4 takes a Half Phase. IF changing the 'spell' selection of the VPP requires a Half Phase action THEN the answer to the original question is a sort-of YES. The remaining Half Phase action of Phase 4 can be applied to CHANGING the VPP. Then the character's Full Phase action of Phase 8 can be used to actually CAST the spell. If the VPP takes a Full Phase to Change then the actual spell could not be cast until Phase 12. Hopefully the following 3 example Magic VPP's will illustrate what I mean a little better. 60 Magic Pool - Full Phase to Change: Variable Power Pool (Magic Pool), 40 base + 60 control cost, (70 Active Points); all slots Extra Time (Full Phase, -1/2) 0 1) Magic Blast: Blast 8d6, Area Of Effect Accurate (4m Radius; +1/2) (60 Active Points) Real Cost: 40 - END=6 70 Magic Pool - Half Phase to Change: Variable Power Pool (Magic Pool), 40 base + 60 control cost, Powers Can Be Changed As A Half-Phase Action (+1/2) (85 Active Points); all slots Extra Time (Full Phase, -1/2) 0 1) Magic Blast: Blast 8d6, Area Of Effect Accurate (4m Radius; +1/2) (60 Active Points) Real Cost: 40 - END=6 80 Magic Pool - Zero Phase to Change: Variable Power Pool (Magic Pool), 40 base + 60 control cost, Powers Can Be Changed As A Zero-Phase Action (+1) (100 Active Points); all slots Extra Time (Full Phase, -1/2) 0 1) Magic Blast: Blast 8d6, Area Of Effect Accurate (4m Radius; +1/2) (60 Active Points) Real Cost: 40 - END=6 HM I think this is reading more into the question than is there. The OP isn't asking about changing the power in the VPP (and actually the whole VPP is irrelevant to the question of Extra Time in this case). The variations you mention still don't actually change the "it takes a full phase to cast" breaking over the half-phase. That doesn't happen in RAW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Baker Posted August 29, 2015 Report Share Posted August 29, 2015 Ithink 3) is actually "Time Delay" rather than Extra Time Time Delay was removed in 6E. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steph Posted August 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2015 To change a slot is a zero phase action sorry to confuse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Baker Posted August 30, 2015 Report Share Posted August 30, 2015 To change a slot is a zero phase action sorry to confuse So the answer is still, no, the player can't start the attack after taking a half phase action. See the pages I referenced, or the text that Hyper-Man posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted August 30, 2015 Report Share Posted August 30, 2015 5th edition had a modifier that made extra time 1/4 more of a limitation if all you could do is wait until the time was up before taking any other action; this suggests that you ordinarily can fire it up then forget it. Like a grenade with a fuse, the extra time just is a delay. I am pretty sure the same thing is in 6th but I'm in too much of a hurry to look and confirm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephrosyne Posted August 30, 2015 Report Share Posted August 30, 2015 According to the rules under Extra Time, Full Phase: The character can perform Zero Phase Actions before he begins activating the powers but may not perform Half Phase Actions. I typed it word for word. So, if you used a Half Phase Action to draw your sword, you cannot begin preparation on your spell. You cannot use your remaining Half Phase to start preparation on your spell and complete the spell on your next Phase. Now, I directly quoted Hero 6th Edition Vol. 1, which is a tad more specific than Champions Complete (which I don't even use but I double checked my pdf) since it specifically addresses the Half Phase Action. Hope that helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdamnhero Posted September 5, 2015 Report Share Posted September 5, 2015 The book answer is that a Full Phase Action is not the same as two 1/2 Phase Actions spread over 2 Phases. Also note that by the book any Attack Action ends your Phase; so even if you let him start the spell on Phase 4 and finish it on Phase 8, he wouldn't be able to do anything else with the rest of his Phase 8 anyway. Personally, I've always allowed people to attack-then-move as long as players don't abuse it; so the latter isn't a problem for me. And I will often let a character spread a Full Phase attack over two Phases if it makes sense in game. The fact that everything that happens after his DEX on Phase 4, and before his DEX on Phase 8 has the potential to disrupt the spell makes up for any benefit IMO. I would *not* allow an additional Attack Action in either Phase, but moving or drawing a weapon or whatever would be fine at my table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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