Why does no one want to GM superheroes?

[starblaze]

So I have been gaming since I was 14 with the red box D&D set and started playing in a superhero RPG with my first supers game Villains and Vigilantes.  I then found Champions 1st Edition and started playing that.  I then stopped playing anything from when I was 22 until about age 30.  The thing that got me interested in rpgs again was 4th edition Champions when I discovered George Perez's awesome cover of the BBB.  I then was contacted by a Champions group and started playing.  That group broke up and I found myself GMing Champions since then.  I have only very occasionally played in superhero game.  I have always found myself running one.

 

I have played a ton of D&D, Star Wars, L5R, and so forth.  But when it has come to superhero role-play I have always been the one to run.  I have asked other GMs to run a supers game but they never want to get involved in doing so.  They will say things like they don't read comic books, they prefer the games they are running now, etc etc.  Now I have had a lot of fun running superhero game but I would like to be on the other side of the shield and just be a hero!

 

So has anyone else run into this problem?  What kind of excuses do you get from GM's who don't want to run your favorite genre?

[TheQuestionMan]

Everyone wants to Play a Superhero, but few want to GM.

 

Heh! That's me too. I can always get Players, but have a hard time finding GM's even among my gaming groups.

 

Superhero campaigns ate a lot of work even for "Simple Game Mechanics"

 

For me its a Gamer thing...

 

P.S.: I can never find a Shadowrun Group, but can always find Players. Rarely GM's.

[bubba smith]

maybe they mistakenly think they've OUTGROWN super heroes

[womble]

Personally, I think to GM a supers game well, you've got to have a nice strong handle on "supers conventions". I don't think I've got anything like as good a grasp in that regard as some of my friends (who have, in the past, run supers games, though not all of them Hero system; some of the best sessions I've had in Supers were using Aberrant), so I don't feel I'm anywhere near "good enough" to run a supers game. Perhaps that (mis- in some cases) perception is widespread.

[Hyper-Man]

Running Champions probably creates unique challenges not seen in many other RPG's.  Not only does it require good knowledge of the genre as noted by others but it almost demands good HERO system knowledge to handle running interesting and fun combats between such diverse character types.  If the GM is not using the published setting then they absorb all the work of creating their own NPC villains, creating the soft caps for their setting, etc.   It reminds me of playing the American side in a game of Fortress America (AKA, Red Dawn the board game!).  It's a LOT of work.

[BoloOfEarth]

For some, it's a genre thing.  They just aren't that into the supers thing.  It's fun enough to play in, but not as engaging (for them) to run.  I can understand that, because I'm the same way about Fantasy.  I have zero desire to run a D&D / Pathfinder / etc. game.

 

Some people just aren't GM material.  I'm not saying that in a snooty, superior way (or at least, I'm not trying to be snobbish).  Look at it from a football perspective -- the greatest players might make the lousiest coaches.  And even those that might be great coaches (or GMs) may not have the desire to do so.

 

I think these two things pare down the available supers GM pool considerably.

 

The above said, a superhero game brings its own complications to the table.  The characters pretty much start out mega-powerful (at least as compared to most of the world), which means you have to allow for that as a GM, every game.  (It's like starting out a D&D game with all of the PC heroes already 16th level.)  To challenge them, the opposition has to either be similarly powerful or sufficiently underhanded or the adventure plot be complicated.  Putting that together, especially on a regular basis, can be challenging.

 

Now throw Champions / Hero Games itself into the mix.  Some find it much more complicated than other systems.  Or they just think it would be and don't even look into it or give it a shot.

 

Starblaze, all of that aside, I used to be the sole GM in our group (running Champions campaigns exclusively) for well over 15 years.  I was feeling overworked, and more than a bit of "I wanna play too!"  So one player started running a D&D game (that morphed into a Pathfinder game), and then another player started running a D&D4 game.  (Neither was interested in running Champions.)  Eventually I learned that I didn't really want to play all that much.  I was missing the world-building, and the plot-building, and the challenges of balancing different sets of villains against the heroes.

 

So in your particular case, starblaze, it's possible you might take care of your superhero-playing fix by going to a game convention or two.  (And you might find yourself picking up a few cool ideas to incorporate into your own game at home.  I know I did.)

[SteelCold]

Its easier to create a fantasy world rather than make one based on the real world even if its from a comic book. Too much stuff to ground reality on to have any fun and the effort will make the GMs feel like they wasted their time coming up with a superheroic campaign setting.

[Amorkca]

I used to run Champions games all the time, but I got burned out, I asked some of the other players to take over and run some games so I could take a back seat and recharge.  At first no one did, so we stopped playing altogether.  

 

My wife ran a few games but stopped awhile back, its been about 8 months since we played, maybe longer and so if I want a game it looks like I have to her the GM again.  My players wouldn't even run other games like DnD, I was always the guy to do it.

 

I'm looking at starting up again cause I miss the games but have certainly been annoyed with all the excuses.  "You do it so much better than I would!!" How do you know? you've never tried!! 

 

I've adopted a new attitude, "I'm not getting older, I'm getting bitter!!"  

 

I've had the same problem with my group about someone being the Team Leader... too!!

 

Bolo, I have also discovered that I really enjoy running games not just playing in them.  Sometimes you just need to pull out the Lantern and repeat the Oath... "In Brightest day..."

 

Now I'm gearing up to start another game but have rediscovered all the work involved and am not getting to it as quickly as I used to!

[TheQuestionMan]

I have noticed that as my Gaming Group membership changes that I can get away with reusing adventures.

 

One Player and I enjoyed comparing the differences in outcomes based on Players actions.

[Balabanto]

One campaign. 28 years. No reused adventures.

 

It can be done. The key things to remember are these:

 

1) Let the chips fall where they may. WHAT? Is he crazy? Did he just say that heroism doesn't come from heroic action points? If you want your game to last a long time, your heroes have to have the ability to lose, and lose badly.

 

2) Think in four dimensions. Remember that superhero gaming isn't just about level battlemap strategies. Elevation matters. Cover matters, distance matters. Other dimensions and planes of reality matter.

 

3) But not too much. (See above) Keep your campaign relatively Earth-Centric, because it limits the above-mentioned workload.

 

4) Let your players do some of your work for you. When a player has an archenemy, let HIM come up with it. Then he can't say "You totally screwed me" when you do something bad with the guy.

 

5) Let teamwork do your work for you. Remember, a well run team of agents and a single supervillain can give the players fits. The key is making that guy interesting enough to keep the players engaged.

 

6) Don't forget to use things they forgot against them. "Do you remember ten years ago when you decided it was a better idea to separate Galvros and Lox from their child? Well, now he's an adult, and he's not too happy with you!"

 

7) Turn things on their side to keep things interesting. Sometimes, a subtle twist in what they're expecting is better than what they actually expected.

 

8) Don't be afraid to be make strange noises and sound effects. This keeps people engaged.

[steriaca]

Here are some reasons people don't try to run superhero RPGs. 1) The system used is to complicated compared to other types of RPGs (it is true, but not overly so. A good supers RPG must account for anything the players think up, character wise.) 2) Mistaken believed that comic books are for "kids", so RPGs set in a supers world must also be so. 3) Just not intrested in supers RPGs. 4) Not intrested in the morality of comic books. ("To smiplistic", to "But I want to murder beings I consider subhuman in fiction, else I do so in real life".) 5) Don't have the time. (A problem which affects us all at times. The reason I don't run or play currently is I have no idea when I get a free day from week to week.)

[phydaux]

I learned a long time ago, unless SOMEBODY GMs, then NOBODY plays.

 

I prefer to play, but I'd rather GM than NOT play.

[Spence]

SuperHeroes is my favorite genre to run or play.  But no one actually wants to play SuperHeroes any more.

 

They want Deadpool or Punisher or some other murder-hobo with powers.

 

The idea of a recurring themed Master Villain as an ongoing archenemy just doesn't seem to occur to anyone anymore.

 

And just forget modern players working together to create superHeroes that will complement each other and set the stage with opportunity for the GM to weave a great story.

 

I have a great group of roleplayers and we can have fantastic games with everything from FATE and GUMSHOE to Shadowrun to even D&D 5th.  Fun games that take full advantage of  storytelling/narrative in the systems. 

 

But try to do anything with superpowers and the current excuse for comics rear their ugly heads and you get Murder Hobo's Inc. 

 

So the closest thing I have run in the supers world is ICONS with the flavor if the Tick or the animated Teen Titans (2003-2006 version).

 

Though to admit, my current group is very story oriented and have actually read a comic that doesn't involve a drug addicted murder-hobo becoming a sober murder-hobo.  I've been working up a small campaign to try in the new year.

[zslane]

That's just...sad.

[phydaux]

I've explored a campaign where the PCs are villains working for an Archvillian.  It's kinda cool.  

 

Suddenly, having a public ID is a REAL disadvantage.  The PCs can't get TOO "murder hobo" (great term, BTW, I'm TOTALLY stealing that) or else Primus will issue a "General Arrest Warrant."  Read that as "Wanted: Dear or Alive, but mostly wanted dead."  Then the Primus agents bust out the 1d6 Autofire Penetrating RKA Blasters, and the 350-point Code Against Mercy vigilantes start coming out of the woodwork.

 

See, GMs can go Murder Hobo too.

 

Eventually one of two things happen - I either kill off a few PCs who can't wrap their heads around the idea that actions have consequences and the entire campaign falls apart, or else the PCs figure out that their REAL job it to take down the Archvillian and set themselves up in his place at the head of the criminal organisation.

[Spence]

 

See, GMs can go Murder Hobo too.

 

 

 

Yep, they can.

 

But that just underlines the futility of trying to have a superHero game these days.   Or really the futility of trying to run/play non-Murder Hobo games at all.  Even D&D 5th. 

 

A friend of mine wanted to run a game.  The theme was to be a high chivalry knights of the round table style game and the GM ask us to show up with some loose concepts and we would all make PC's as a group.   He wanted to limit the group to humans unless there was an extremely good concept if why there would be a non-human.

 

My idea was a young knight errant of any order the GM needed to fit the story.  But you'd be surprised with the other offerings.  Not general concepts, but actual fully built PC's.  All the Murder-Hobo flavors were represented.  Dragonborn, Sorcerers, Warlocks.  No good or lawful, instead neutral-evil, chaotic-neutral and so on.  Instead of being ready to make PC's to fit the campaign, they all rolled in with PC's and wanted the campaign to be rebuilt to accommodate the slaughter.

 

Oh the looks of confusion when they GM closed and put away his notes and said he was ready to make a character for the dungeon crawl. 

 

Players nowadays have bought the BS that a GM's sole purpose is to accommodate them and they have no obligation to support the story or that the GM has no expectation of any fun. 

 

If a GM indicates they wish to run a specific type of campaign you do not have to play it.  Instead of agreeing and then trying to hijack the game, be honest and simply decline.  

 

If a person does not like a superHero game, then don't say you want to play in it.  There is nothing wrong with telling someone you are not interested in their campaign.  In fact for myself I prefer people to say no, rather than agree and then try to make weird incompatible PC's.  

[Steve]

I keep finding myself in the position that I can GM a Hero System game or I can play Another Game System. I seem to be the only Hero GM I ever run across.

[zslane]

I have generally stayed away from GMing Champions because it is Too Damn Hard. At least for me it is. Given how easy it is to run a lousy game of Champions, I'd say I'm not the only one so afflicted.

 

I don't know what a Murder Hobo is, but it doesn't sound like the kind of PC I'd want to team up with. I have found that it takes a genuine love for superheroes to get into the proper spirit of the genre, and not everyone who plays RPGs really gets it. If they don't then I probably don't want them in my gaming group. But I wonder if the paucity of available players in any given area makes groups feel like they gotta take whatever players they can get, and accomodate their wacky whims, for better or for worse.

[Scott Baker]

I don't know what a Murder Hobo is, but it doesn't sound like the kind of PC I'd want to team up with.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=murderhobo

[zslane]

So if I understand the Urban Dictionary definition correctly, "murder hobos" are what you get when you combine PCs that lack meaningful background stories and meaningful connections to the game world with a GM unable or unwilling to give the PCs motivations (and justifications) for their actions beyond the simplistic meta-goals of gaining XP and in-game wealth.

 

Is that really a problem for many Champions groups? It's not something I ran into very often myself.

[Hyper-Man]

So if I understand the Urban Dictionary definition correctly, "murder hobos" are what you get when you combine PCs that lack meaningful background stories and meaningful connections to the game world with a GM unable or unwilling to give the PCs motivations (and justifications) for their actions beyond the simplistic meta-goals of gaining XP and in-game wealth.

 

Is that really a problem for many Champions groups? It's not something I ran into very often myself.

 

It's basically a description of what many D&D PC's end up turning into if not outright designed to do from the start of a campaign.  Not saying that ALL D&D games turn into that but evidently enough have for it to be given a name.

[Ninja-Bear]

Is it illegal because you are mixing damage types?

 

How the hang did this end up here? I swear I posted this on the Garrote thread!

[Scott Baker]

Is it illegal because you are mixing damage types?

 

How the hang did this end up here? I swear I posted this on the Garrote thread!

Every good Murder Hobo needs a Garrote.

[Basic204]

Everyone wants to Play a Superhero, but few want to GM.

 

Heh! That's me too. I can always get Players, but have a hard time finding GM's even among my gaming groups.

 

Superhero campaigns ate a lot of work even for "Simple Game Mechanics"

 

For me its a Gamer thing...

 

P.S.: I can never find a Shadowrun Group, but can always find Players. Rarely GM's.

 

I'm will to GM a superhero game if you want to play. I've been looking for a superhero game to play in but if no one is willing to run I will do it. SO let me know if you want to play. 

[starblaze]

What kind of campaign?