Lord Liaden Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 LL, this may be the first time I've ever disagreed with something you've posted. After all this time? Makes me wonder if you were paying attention. But I have zero problem with you disagreeing with me. And I respect Michael Keaton as an actor in general. I guess I should explain that, from my perspective as an acting coach, I could see Keaton's resistance to really committing to the larger-than-life character he was playing. Nicholson, DeVito, Pfeiffer, were willing to go as broad and deep physically and psychologically as their characters took them. Interviews with Keaton about his Batman performances solidified my impression of his discomfort with the role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlord Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 I still have them. Oh good...thought I was the only one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clonus Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 Me I keep remembering Wonder Woman pointing out to some man early on that she isn't a giantess or a mass of muscle while making the point that her power is metaphysical every time people complain that no actress is "buff" enough to play the part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 Honestly, I think Gal Gadot looks great as Wonder Woman and I'm really pleased with what little I've seen of her in the trailers/footage. Of course, visuals are only half the job, and I hope we get to see her actually talk in character soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuSoardGraphite Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 Honestly, I think Gal Gadot looks great as Wonder Woman and I'm really pleased with what little I've seen of her in the trailers/footage. Of course, visuals are only half the job, and I hope we get to see her actually talk in character soon. As infamous Youtuber Angry Joe said in his review of the B v S trailer.....everyone looks good in a Zack Snyder action sequence. The question is can she pull off the preesence that Wonder Woman exudes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranxerox Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9Ur4De7yT8 First WW footage. The greatest thing about Wonder Woman is how good, and kind, and loving, she is, and that doesn't negate any of her power. For the first time, I am feeling optimist about this movie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hopcroft Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 I don't know whether any forward planning is involved in the DCCU, but it raises some interesting story points if Wonder Woman/Diana Prince has been around the West for a hundred years. The idea of a half-divine Amazon warrior being for most purposes immortal is hardly new. It could be that Diana cannot die naturally and does not age beyond a certain point. This poses some practical issues, of course, such as people who knew her in 1917 wondering how she looks the same in 1947. Or perhaps she spent the great bulk of that time going back and forth -- disappearing for a while onto the Amazons' island and letting the world forget Diana Prince for a decade or two until she's needed again in the mortal world. (Of course, her holding any affection for it at all would be a bone of contention with her xenophobe sisters.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clonus Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 I don't know whether any forward planning is involved in the DCCU, but it raises some interesting story points if Wonder Woman/Diana Prince has been around the West for a hundred years. The idea of a half-divine Amazon warrior being for most purposes immortal is hardly new. It could be that Diana cannot die naturally and does not age beyond a certain point. This poses some practical issues, of course, such as people who knew her in 1917 wondering how she looks the same in 1947. Or perhaps she spent the great bulk of that time going back and forth -- disappearing for a while onto the Amazons' island and letting the world forget Diana Prince for a decade or two until she's needed again in the mortal world. (Of course, her holding any affection for it at all would be a bone of contention with her xenophobe sisters.) Given that the Amazons have lived for thousands of years without men, immortality is a virtually necessary part of the package. I don't think she'll have been spending all that time in "Man's World". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 As to the thread title, I kind of expect comic book movies to be bad. Hollywood loves screwing those things up. (not seen many good ones or even average ones, and no, no X-men movies are being put on that list) Ragitsu 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 10 Reasons the DC Extended Universe Might Disappoint Fans http://screenrant.com/10-reasons-the-dc-extended-universe-might-disappoint-fans-marz-665011/?view=all Also DC Extended Universe Wiki http://dcextendeduniverse.wikia.com/wiki/DC_Extended_Universe_Wiki DCEU Films & TV shows http://dcextendeduniverse.wikia.com/wiki/DC_Extended_Universe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlord Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 http://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/lynda-carter-won%E2%80%99t-appear-in-the-new-wonder-woman-movie/ar-BBouluA?li=BBnb2gh No Linda Carter? Awww, darn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 A shame, I think she'd make a Great Hera* * see what I did there? Starlord 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragitsu Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 As to the thread title, I kind of expect comic book movies to be bad. Hollywood loves screwing those things up. (not seen many good ones or even average ones, and no, no X-men movies are being put on that list) It's almost as if these film studios are heavyweight boxers fixing to pummel your childhood (or newer!) memories like a red-headed stepchild stuffed into a punching bag. gewing 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pariah Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 A shame, I think she'd make a Great Hera* * see what I did there? Pariah → ← Hermit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zslane Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 Oh good...thought I was the only one. Definitely not. I never bought Keaton as Batman either. In fact, no actor so far has had the size and physicality I expect from Batman. The same could be said of Superman. However, I am aware that Hollywood is not full of gifted actors with superhero physiques. We must, as viewers, accept some compromises. Unfortuantely, Keaton was just too much of a compromise for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragitsu Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 Michael Keaton did a better job portraying the Caped Crusader than Bruce Wayne. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gewing Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 Eh, believe me I know and have known many guys who think superheroes, harry potter, lotr, and even star wars are stupid. IMO you cannot 'target' those people. It just takes a punisher type.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gewing Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 It's almost as if these film studios are heavyweight boxers fixing to pummel your childhood (or newer!) memories like a red-headed stepchild stuffed into a punching bag. RANT warning: I have had a really crappy day, and this is coloring everything. Comic writers seem to be doing it too. There is a part of me (not one I like, but still) That wants most, if not all of the PC re-imaginings of Comic characters to crash and Burn. The "Has to be a Minority' Nancy Drew also. Make NEW characters people! Killing one just so you can replace them with a minority... I am really perplexed by the idea of a Female Thor... Have not read it, but heard an interiew with the author. I have NO understanding of the logic/storyline that changes the fundamental nature of a mythological Character like that. I HOPE there is a reason besides just "I wanted to do it. FrankL, Burrito Boy and Ragitsu 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 Ostensively - it's specifically because they are iconic mythic characters that are embodiments of high ideals. Easily recognizable and instantly convey specific kinds ideas about character and attitude. Representation matters. The Face Of America. The God Of Thunder. The Billionaire Crimefighter. The Man Of Steel. Once you open up the idea that anyone can wear these mantles you break down the barriers that they are just one kind of face, that 'normal' isn't so myopically represented. And before we go there; create a secondary character that reflects these mantles and you get the 'they're just a knock off of...' arguments. Catch-22. It doesn't change the fundamental nature of a mythological character, to be honest. It expands it, sure. But change? If Captain America is supposed to represent an ideal of The American Way, or Fighting For Justice, or however you break down his basic nature, how does making him a Black man over a White man alter that sentence? Borrowing this from a Tumblr post: Q: Why does that character have to be gay/bi/black/Asian/Hispanic/etc? A: As opposed to what? I’ve found this to be a useful response, because many people will hesitate before saying “white” or “straight.” That hesitation comes from the realization, however subconscious, that they have defaulted all characters to white and straight, and are thereby declaring this normal, while everything else is other. From here, if they choose to acknowledge their internalized (unintentional but still harmful) supremacy rather than going on the defensive, they will begin to understand the real value of representation. Shadow Hawk, drunkonduty, TrickstaPriest and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragitsu Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 The "Has to be a Minority' Nancy Drew also. What happened to Nancy Drew? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 Current Speculation: http://www.theverge.com/2016/1/20/10796704/nancy-drew-tv-show-cbs-pilot-grown-up-not-white Looks like they're going for Cop Procedural rather than Teen Sleuth as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragitsu Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 Current Speculation: http://www.theverge.com/2016/1/20/10796704/nancy-drew-tv-show-cbs-pilot-grown-up-not-white Looks like they're going for Cop Procedural rather than Teen Sleuth as well. I'm upset that she's an older detective for the NYPD. Her ethnicity is much more incidental to her personality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlord Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 Ostensively - it's specifically because they are iconic mythic characters that are embodiments of high ideals. Easily recognizable and instantly convey specific kinds ideas about character and attitude. Representation matters. The Face Of America. The God Of Thunder. The Billionaire Crimefighter. The Man Of Steel. Once you open up the idea that anyone can wear these mantles you break down the barriers that they are just one kind of face, that 'normal' isn't so myopically represented. And before we go there; create a secondary character that reflects these mantles and you get the 'they're just a knock off of...' arguments. Catch-22. It doesn't change the fundamental nature of a mythological character, to be honest. It expands it, sure. But change? If Captain America is supposed to represent an ideal of The American Way, or Fighting For Justice, or however you break down his basic nature, how does making him a Black man over a White man alter that sentence? Borrowing this from a Tumblr post: Q: Why does that character have to be gay/bi/black/Asian/Hispanic/etc? A: As opposed to what? I’ve found this to be a useful response, because many people will hesitate before saying “white” or “straight.” That hesitation comes from the realization, however subconscious, that they have defaulted all characters to white and straight, and are thereby declaring this normal, while everything else is other. From here, if they choose to acknowledge their internalized (unintentional but still harmful) supremacy rather than going on the defensive, they will begin to understand the real value of representation. I don't think your Captain America example applies here. The shield has been carried by many different individuals. Steve Rogers has willingly given up this identity to worthy people and has stated on many occasions that anyone can be Captain America and it is a defining trait. Also, the popularity of the character has not dwindled significantly when portrayed by someone such as Falcon and Bucky. IMO they have enhanced it actually. Peter Parker IS Spider-Man. He is not just an archetype but a character heavily defined by his personal experiences and unique origin. For example, I've enjoyed stories of Miles Morales but I don't think of him as Spider-Man. However, it does sadden me that such a great latin character needs to trade on another hero's name in order to be popular. Burrito Boy and gewing 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 Q: Why does that character have to be gay/bi/black/Asian/Hispanic/etc? Because that character, along with his friends, was invented in a less enlightened time and today, that group of characters does not accurately reflect the makeup of modern society. TrickstaPriest and Grailknight 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 I'm upset that she's an older detective for the NYPD. Her ethnicity is much more incidental to her personality. Actually, yeah. That seems such a betrayal of the whole idea of what Nancy Drew represented. TrickstaPriest 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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