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DC Movies- if at first you don't succeed...


Cassandra

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I'm sure the DC movies will continue to perform reasonably well at the box office even if they are leached of all life and color. I do have high hopes for Wonder Woman, and I hope Whedon actually gets to make his DC movie this time around (Batgirl is my favorite DC character). But I am not sanguine about the rest of the DCEU projects going forward.

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I have a long list of grievances against Snyder & Co, but moving WW to WWI instead of WWII is pretty low on the list. Frankly I think it's a fairly savvy move on DC/WB's part; it means every review of the movie won't be comparing it to Captain America.

 

I am cautiously looking forward to WW, based on the trailers. But then the Suicide Squad trailers looked good too and that was a train wreck. Hence "cautiously"...

 

And I can understand some bitterness, particularly towards Snyder who does seem to be a poster boy for "but my .. my vision!"

Dude is a Randian. "You plebes can't possibly be expected to understand MY BRILLIANCE!" is the unofficial club motto. I wouldn't be surprised if Snyder has it embroidered on his towels.

 

DC Movie execs (And Snyder) on the other hand seem very out of sync with the public, but rather than adjusting as the comic book side of things did and getting themselves in sync with it, they insist the fans just need to get with the program.

 

And that dog don't hunt.

Well said. And it's not just that they're completely and openly contemptuous of comics and comics fans; frankly it would be possible to make a lousy Superman movie that still attracts a large general audience. The problem seems to be that valid criticisms from the general movie-going audience are dismissed as just whining from a handful of basement-dwelling comic book nerds.

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DC Comics got the message, and even admitted "In our pursuit of what we hoped would be great ideas, we lost something... and we hear you saying so. Let's go get it back... come with us." And readers did, and damn.... it's working great.

 

DC Movie execs (And Snyder) on the other hand seem very out of sync with the public, but rather than adjusting as the comic book side of things did and getting themselves in sync with it, they insist the fans just need to get with the program.

 

And that dog don't hunt.

 

This exactly times 1000%. The Rebirth approach worked well, apply it to the movies for God's sake.

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I have a long list of grievances against Snyder & Co, but moving WW to WWI instead of WWII is pretty low on the list. Frankly I think it's a fairly savvy move on DC/WB's part; it means every review of the movie won't be comparing it to Captain America.

Plus, WW has not been linked to WWII in the comics for what, 30 years?

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DC Movie execs (And Snyder) on the other hand seem very out of sync with the public, but rather than adjusting as the comic book side of things did and getting themselves in sync with it, they insist the fans just need to get with the program.

 

 

Again, DC and Marvel are opposites here: the editor and publisher staff at Marvel Comics has that attitude toward readers -- condescension and arrogance -- while their movies seem to want to give the fans what they are asking for and enjoy.

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The payoff is bigger with the movies, so the creative decisions are channeled in the direction of appealing to the most number of people. And given the vast cultural spectrum that audiences cover these days (given the global reach of these films), that means taking the fewest creative risks and sticking pretty close to tried and true action movie tropes. It seems that Marvel's comics division thinks that is no longer a viable market strategy. Either that or they simply don't understand what comic fans are asking for and what they enjoy any more.

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They understand, they just don't care. Quesada established a very antagonistic relationship with fans during his tenure as Editor-in-Chief, and now sweeping decisions are being made at the bean-counters' direction based on spite over film/television rights rather than what will actually work best to engage readers.

 

Then when sales drop the execs scapegoat minorities.

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I think an advantage of comics is that you can produce more of them. If a book appeals to 10% of the readership and disgusts 90%, it could be a decent seller, especially if it can pull readers from outside the typical comic reader pool. And there can still be lots of "booms for other readers" on the stands. The problem is that the publisher sees one book sell big, and tries to make all the other books more like it, instead of playing to the diversity of the reader base.

 

By contrast, MCU and CU combined are not going to be putting out 100+ titles a month any time soon.

 

And yeah, the movies make more money, and the trades make more money, so the BUSINESS focuses on what makes more money.

 

Velcome, Schtudents, to Economics of Capitalism Vun Owe Vun.

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...sweeping decisions are being made at the bean-counters' direction based on spite over film/television rights...

 

Yeah, this stabs rather deeply into the hearts of comic fans. All the nonsense over mutants in Marvel comics due to the live-action licensing rights has been deplorable. But quite frankly, I wouldn't expect a company owned by Disney to behave any other way.

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Yeah it preceded Disney, it was a shift in editorial staff basically cleaning house of all the people who got them to the point they were at and replacing them with "hot young stars" who had a totally different vision of comics and storytelling.  This isn't a "bean counter" thing; if they paid attention to the ones who did the accounting, they would be more focused on what sells rather than what fits their grand editorial vision.

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But the movement to downplay mutants in favor of inhumans began in 2015, as I recall, which is deep into Disney's tenure as corporate overlords. That seems to me the most glaring example of a rights-based pissing contest dictating editorial direction for the comics.

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Why wasn't Shazam promoted more heavily by DC for the past 40 years? Because they didn't have the other media rights.

 

The new Peter Parker, and no Fantastic Four comic, decisions at Marvel can also be linked to making it harder for the other rights holders to align with the comics.

 

Doesn't really explain Sam Wilson Capt America, Jane Foster Thor, Amadaus Cho Hulk, Kate Bishop Haykeye or those two new Iron Men, though.

 

Explains a lot of GoTG though...

 

 

How long did I have to listen to "Marvel overpromotes mutants and X-Books" before the complaint they are downplaying Mutants in favour of Inhumans?

 

 

ch ch ch ch ch ch changes...

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Stan Lee, many years ago, wrote a soapbox complaining that, if Marvel released a poor seller, they were "letting down the fans", and if they release a hot seller they were "milking the fans for the bucks" or some such. You can't win.

 

Velcome back, Schtudents, to Economics of Capitalism Vun Owe Vun.

 

Today'sch lesschon vill discussch hvy bizzineshesh produsche products dot people buy, und schtop produzink products zey do not!*

 

* Seriously, how remedial is Economics of Capitalism 101?

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But the movement to downplay mutants in favor of inhumans began in 2015, as I recall, which is deep into Disney's tenure as corporate overlords. That seems to me the most glaring example of a rights-based pissing contest dictating editorial direction for the comics.

 

Yeah, that I do think was Disney, or at least MCU influencing comic book portrayals, which seems like a poor decision.  The idea was that movies would move comics, but they found that doesn't really happen.  So making the comics more like movies seems like a questionable direction to go.

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On the animated side, Teen Titans: The Judas Contract is out in streaming and comes out, I think tomorrow, in DVD

 

I have not seen it yet, as I'll be getting the DVD (Silly me, I like to own things) but there are clips out there (Don't watch so many you spoil it for you) and this is one I stumbled on that had me laugh my ass off

 

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Wait a minute. Let me mull this over.

 

Marvel movies like Guardians of the Galaxy are great. GoTG had to introduce Star-Lord, Gamora, Rocket, Groot, Drax, Yondu, Ronan and Nebula (all of whom are featured in spots advertising GoTG 2), not counting more “bit players” like the Collector, Korath or the Nova Corp, or Thanos who was introduced earlier (limited audience familiarity).

 

But DC movies suck. Suicide Squad sucked because they tried to introduce too many characters all at once – Deadshot, Harley Quinn, El Diablo, Captain Boomerang, Killer Croc, Rick Flag, Amanda Waller and the Enchantress, not counting “bit players” like Slipknot and Enchantress’ brother (“Incubus”?), or the Joker (who is a much better known character than Thanos).

 

I am not seeing the huge difference in the cast which had to be introduced to the audience. And the background scenery in Suicide Squad, present-day Earth, needed a lot less introduction than an alien prison and far-flung alien worlds.

 

I think DC is getting judged to a different standard...

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Thinking on it, the Wonder Woman trailer gets dismissed, while Thor: Ragnarok is gushed over. I like both. But I also question what "Hela Invades Asgard" has to do with "Thor on Planet Hulk". That seems much more a disconnect than Paradise Island/Themyscria and WW I.

 

For that matter, WW sucks because no invisible jet, but Thor gets a pass on changing Asgardian myth to Stargate style super science?

 

Again, I think we are judging to different standards.

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To me, it's simple: the DC team just hasn't been up to the task of making a good movie. It probably doesn't help that they have to spend time establishing characters that are unfamiliar to the audience, but even when they haven't had to do that they've still failed.

 

Hopefully the team on Wonder Woman or one of the other upcoming films will finally be able to get it right. But so far...

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