DC Movies- if at first you don't succeed...

[zslane]

P&A has been >= the production cost for movies for quite a long time. It isn't a "these days" kind of thing at all.

[Christopher R Taylor]

 

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In the specific case of Justice League, it's probably more important for them to have a hit than to make a profit.

 

I agree, they have to demonstrate through a few movies that they aren't an "epic failure" to quote the title of this post.  They have to demonstrate that they understand superhero movies aren't supposed to make you want to slit your wrist.  How anyone figured putting the guy who put out Sucker Punch in charge of Superman made sense I cannot comprehend.

[Cassandra]

1 hour ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

 

 

I agree, they have to demonstrate through a few movies that they aren't an "epic failure" to quote the title of this post.  They have to demonstrate that they understand superhero movies aren't supposed to make you want to slit your wrist.  How anyone figured putting the guy who put out Sucker Punch in charge of Superman made sense I cannot comprehend.

 

I think it was Dawn of the Dead, and the fact the studio heads thought the Justice League took place in the Middle
Ages.

[slikmar]

The question is, after the success(?) of JL, perhaps due to the influence of Whedon, do they go back and reput Snyder in charge of the upcoming movies or do they learn a lesson and perhaps switch to someone who has actually worked on a real (not GRAPHIC novel) comic. For all the annoyance of the reusing the Frank Miller stuff over and over, some of his runs on things like Daredevil and Batman were really good comic book writing.

[zslane]

I guess the folks who liked JL have Joss Whedon to thank for much of that. For the folks who disliked JL, they also have Joss Whedon to thank for that. It's difficult to say how involved either Snyder or Whedon will be in the DCEU going forward, if for no other reason than it is difficult to say whether or not JL was successful, and if it was, which of the two had more to do with that success.

[Starlord]

On 12/3/2017 at 4:40 AM, Old Man said:

Meanwhile, the trailer for the next DC film has dropped:

 

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You know you want it.

 

 

Well, I guess if we can take other countries creations and royally f&*k them up, its only fair they can do it to us....

[Old Man]

I love how anime is so polarizing.  It makes it so easy to separate the people who like anime from the people who have no taste. 

[slikmar]

Ok, besides hating screenrant for constantly asking me to disable my adblocker, are they like fanboys of the Snyderverse? This whole article (https://screenrant.com/justice-league-movie-original-ending-darkseid/ ) seems to be about how Whedon screwed up Snyder's vision. Sorry, ending that movie with Darkseid or the JL killing Steppenwolfe, although a very Snyder thing to do, would have taken them right back to the dark universe WW had seemed to draw them out of. I admit, I am a fan of Whedon, so maybe I am biased, but if he really affected the movie's tone this much, Yay for him.

[zslane]

Yeah, I don't get the critics. On the one hand they seem to universally agree that the grim, dark direction of the DCEU isn't really what audiences want, and then they turn around and slam JL because it isn't "grim and dark like audiences have come to appreciate about the DCEU". I think these people just make up whatever opinion they have to in order have something contrary to say on their YouTube channel every week.

[Starlord]

Whether its blogs, opinion pieces/shows or talk radio, contrariness is what gets the most reads or highest ratings.  Particularly, it seems, when that contrariness makes the least possible sense.

[Bazza]

45 minutes ago, slikmar said:

Ok, besides hating screenrant for constantly asking me to disable my adblocker, are they like fanboys of the Snyderverse? This whole article (https://screenrant.com/justice-league-movie-original-ending-darkseid/ ) seems to be about how Whedon screwed up Snyder's vision. Sorry, ending that movie with Darkseid or the JL killing Steppenwolfe, although a very Snyder thing to do, would have taken them right back to the dark universe WW had seemed to draw them out of. I admit, I am a fan of Whedon, so maybe I am biased, but if he really affected the movie's tone this much, Yay for him.

 

As i understand it, the reason Joss came on board was to finish the film in a couple of months to meet the release date due to Zac taking time off because of a  personal tragedy. Now that the film is released to cinema I'd wait for the Blu-Ray release at it is likely to be both an "ultimate edition" and Zac would have time to create a director's cut of the film, putting out his vision for the film on record.

[zslane]

Joss was already working on the film before Snyder's family tragedy, but he did not contribute enough to warrant a co-director credit. Consequently, the movie as released is considered "Zack's Justice League," even with Joss's additions and changes. This has fueled speculation that there won't be a Director's Cut because neither Zack nor WB sees a need for one. But only time will tell.

[Christopher R Taylor]

I haven't seen the film yet to discern but you can usually tell where a director stepped in and changed things or added bits.  Like the films where Tarantino "added" dialog or directed a portion.  It stands out like there's a neon sign behind the actors, especially with guys like Whedon.  I personally am not a huge fan of his, but he can make some entertaining stuff, and its always stamped with his style.  As is Snyder's work.

[slikmar]

I mentioned before, I wonder how much Joss tweaked scenes to add a small bit of humor or humanity or whatever in it. I really wonder how dark the movie would have been if he hadn't been involved reshooting a bit or editing slightly different.

[bigdamnhero]

On 12/3/2017 at 9:05 PM, mrinku said:

In the specific case of Justice League, it's probably more important for them to have a hit than to make a profit.

From the fans' & critics' perspective, maybe. But the studios and the folks who throw money at them to make these movies aren't in it for the sake of art. The previous movies were supposed to be the ones that established the brand: JL was the Big Tentpole Moneymaker that everything was leading up to. And so far, it's only made $269M beyond it's absurd $300M budget. By comparison, Ant-Man is the lowest-grossing Disney/MCU film, and it made $389M past budget. Meanwhile, Marvel has had three movies net more than $1B after budget. Heck, BvS is WB/DC's biggest post-Nolan success, and while it made $623M past its budget, that wouldn't even make it into the top 5 MCU films. Netting $269M (so far) certainly isn't a disaster, but JL was supposed to be the Cash Cow, and so far they haven't even out-grossed Logan, which was made for less than $100M.

 

I would be very surprised if they don't use Snyder's family situation as an opportunity to move him aside in favor of...someone else. Personally I doubt it'll be Joss - he's been very public about being tired of studio-driven franchises and wants to create something original again. It should be Patty Jenkins, but we all know they won't give that much control to a girl. [grrr] So who knows who they'll bring in, but I suspect it'll be someone meant to send a clear message of change.

[Bazza]

BDH, honestly I doubt it. 

[Lord Liaden]

I expect the Warner execs in charge of the DC movie properties are doing a lot of soul-searching right now, at least if they want to keep their jobs. They control some of the most famous and beloved fictional characters of the past century. Marvel Studios, and DC's own past movies and TV shows, as well as current CW manifestations, have proven such characters can be translated to other media with great success. Now they have to figure out what went wrong on their end, and how, and whether, to try to correct it.

[Cassandra]

1 hour ago, Lord Liaden said:

I expect the Warner execs in charge of the DC movie properties are doing a lot of soul-searching right now, at least if they want to keep their jobs. They control some of the most famous and beloved fictional characters of the past century. Marvel Studios, and DC's own past movies and TV shows, as well as current CW manifestations, have proven such characters can be translated to other media with great success. Now they have to figure out what went wrong on their end, and how, and whether, to try to correct it.

 

Wonder Woman 2 might be save because it was a good movie (or at least not a bad movie).  The whole DC Movie Universe spun off of the Man of Steel needs a reboot.

[Christopher R Taylor]

My guess is that they will roll back budgets, not allowing so gargantuan a cost for the next film.  Since this one didn't make gigantic bank, the stars aren't in a position to demand huge salaries.  But they'll move on.  Both the most recent Superman movies were pretty well panned by critics and fans, but made a lot of money.  So they won't feel like the idea is a flop, just not as likely to make money as they hoped.

[zslane]

JL has to bring in at least 800M worldwide to net WB/DC enough to just break even against the $300M + P&A costs. Toy sales might help, along with DVD and On Demand streaming sales, but by all the ways Hollywood measures success, JL is a disaster because it utterly failed to launch the brand (i.e., "DC on film") into the same league as Marvel's MCU, which was its sole goal.

 

The Aquaman movie is already done shooting and Wonder Woman 2 has been greenlit and will definitely be made. Everything beyond that is now on the chopping block as WB/DC reassesses the future of the brand.

[Lord Liaden]

And in the meantime, Marvel Studios movies have practically become a license to print money. I don't condone greed as the primary motivator for anything, let alone movie making; but I can' understand WB execs being a little blinded by dollar signs in their eyes when they looked at Marvel.

[zslane]

Don't let the narrator's accent and occasional odd pronunciation of words deter you from watching this:

 

 

[Spence]

Well, for me the reason the DC movies have been failing, or underperforming if you prefer, is they don't have a clue of what made the characters popular.  With the exception of Wonder Woman, they have completely missed with all if the Heroes.   And before someone tosses in Bats, Batman is not a Hero.  He is a dark vigilante.  Great story and a favorite character of mine.  But not a "Hero".  DC comic based movies have actually done well with their non-heroes. 

 

But apparently there was brain damage and drug overdosing involved in the last few interpretations of Superman.  I often wonder if they even read any Superman.

 

Does DC want to make a movie about the Heroes that people will actually like?  Try portraying them to reflect the character ehen it was actually popular.  Just stop with the "everyone is a dark brooding grungy ex_______ (insert addiction, psycho condition, tragedy of choice)". 

 

Just give us some enjoyable rollicking fun.  If I want disaster or whining, I have the evening "news".

 

[zslane]

I haven't seen JL yet but from the reactions I've heard, I get the impression that Superman is back to being the Big Blue Boy Scout by the end of it.

[Spence]

3 minutes ago, zslane said:

I haven't seen JL yet but from the reactions I've heard, I get the impression that Superman is back to being the Big Blue Boy Scout by the end of it.

I hope so, and it would be great.  But after so many major disappointments, I will most likely wait to rent or borrow.  Just can't make myself throw more money into the trash. 

 

I'd really like to be proven wrong....