Political Discussion Thread (With Rules)

[CrosshairCollie]

The more I look at that pic, the less I think he's actually touching her.  I freely admit my vision stinks, but it looks like his fingers are not in contact with her clothing.  Still inappropriate as hell, even through body armor.

 

To Old Man's point, Roger Ailes tweeted about the pic before it actually became public knowledge.  With this, her Trumpty-Dumpty support, and being a friend of Hannity, is suspicious to enough of us that we suspect this is all some kind of setup.  We have the damning pic, yes, but everything else, AFAIK, is on the tongue of someone who supports a guy publicly in favor of sexual assault who lies 5.5 times a day to the populace.  The fact that Franken outright said 'bring on the investigation' makes me think he thinks so, too, as opposed to Moore's attempted cover-ups.  At the very least, unlike Moore and Trump, Franken has shown genuine contrition as opposed to deception and pride, respectively; that should count for something.  Heck, she even accepted his apology and said he shouldn't resign (which I actually find suspicious).

 

And in case it wasn't obvious, I freely admit my bias: My loathing of Trump is such that I inherently distrust anybody who supports him.  Loathing is too soft a word.  Saying what I would like to do to him here would violate the code of conduct, terms of service, FCC regulations, common decency, X-Rated Movie restrictions, a half-dozen religious mores, and possibly the Geneva Conventions.

[BoloOfEarth]

17 minutes ago, CrosshairCollie said:

We have the damning pic, yes, but everything else, AFAIK, is on the tongue of someone who supports a guy publicly in favor of sexual assault who lies 5.5 times a day to the populace. 

 

I was going to ask why you only went with 5.5 lies per day, and then I found this:

 

Quote

From Jan. 20, 2017 until July 20, 2017 Trump appears to have fired off a mere 1,002 tweets at the time of writing this article, which breaks down to about 5.5 tweets per day.

 

Well played, sir.  Well played.

[CrosshairCollie]

Thank you, thank you, you're too kind.

[st barbara]

But that is only his tweets. Surely if you include all the untrue things that he says in his statements the figure is higher !

[Cancer]

That's harder to quantify, and a well-defined data set and firm numerical validation is a joy these days.

[Tech priest support]

10 hours ago, Ternaugh said:

 

 

 

Dude, there's a picture of Franken behaving badly with her, and he apparently has a history of making "jokes" that are not appropriate.

 

It doesn't matter who she supports, or where she's chosen to work, she didn't deserve to be the target of sexual harassment or assault. There is no excuse for treating anyone that way. It's not the victim's fault, and we should never forget that.

 

Slate and the New York Times both have opinion pieces that Franken needs to resign. Even though I like what he's done in the Senate, I'm of the opinion that they're probably right, especially if the Democrats want to take the moral high ground with Moore.

The guy who took the photo said it was a staged photo and she'd agreed to it. Also during her USO show she was making seriously sexual gestures (mock humping) people on stage.

[Lectryk]

1 hour ago, Tech priest support said:

The guy who took the photo said it was a staged photo and she'd agreed to it. Also during her USO show she was making seriously sexual gestures (mock humping) people on stage.

 

Citation, please, or your original post does nothing to differentiate itself from the 'blame the victim' language that the people you despise are using vis the situation with Moore.  Snopes by the way, says the the statement about the photo being faked is false (https://www.snopes.com/photographer-said-franken-image-was-staged/)  If you have a verified correct cite, please share.

[gewing]

Staged does not necessarily mean false. A staged photo is one that was set up in advance rather than one was mocked up afterwards with Photoshop. So if she knew that they were going to take silly pictures, and it was arranged in advance that is staged

edit; so much for definitions, sounds like the claim of the quote is completely fake which is a different issue.;

 I don't know the full truth in Franken's case, but he has apologized and called for an ethics investigation of himself.

Moore has multiple accusers with many many people backing up their statements. Even if I didn't consider Moore s whack job and rather despicable, I would think that that was grounds for him to be stepping down from the race.

One of the things that's interesting is the reconsideration of Clinton's actions in the past.

[Tech priest support]

Here's a pic with multiple witnesses in evidence . AFAIC case closed.

 

 

[Ternaugh]

9 minutes ago, Tech priest support said:

Here's a pic with multiple witnesses in evidence . AFAIC case closed.

 

 

 

You're absolutely right. This picture of the "sketch" performed on stage clearly shows her turning her face away to avoid getting full brunt of the kiss. That matches what she said about the events.

[Lectryk]

22 minutes ago, Tech priest support said:

Here's a pic with multiple witnesses in evidence . AFAIC case closed.

 

 

 

Too bad this photo has nothing to do with the photo you posted citing the photographer admitting to a fake (shown to be false).  Still waiting for a proper cite to back up your claim.  Nor does it stand in any way in support of your questioning her background and politics.  Do you have any defense of yourself for your statements about her character, her politics, or motives?  Just curious, since you're one of the first people on this board to go after the conservative media and people in general for doing exactly what you are in this case.  

[Tech priest support]

If franken violated here were are the witnesses who were in the pic?

[Old Man]

Meanwhile, funding for children's health insurance expired 45 days ago, and net neutrality expires in less than 30.

[Tech priest support]

17 minutes ago, Old Man said:

Meanwhile, funding for children's health insurance expired 45 days ago, and net neutrality expires in less than 30.

Nice to see someone has priorities that make sense.

[Tech priest support]

BTW, here's one political trick to watch out for: counter intuitive arguments. While counter intuitive facts do come up in science quite orten, especially if you get into (eeeek!) Quantum physics, when politicians bring up counter intuitive "solutions" they are often pulling the old "emperor's new clothes" scam. I.E. "While our solution tp (whatever) may appear to be unworkable to somenpeolle,  only the (ignorant, naive, uneducated, stupid, libtards, etc) fail to see their true brilliance!"

 

Illustration: 

[Pattern Ghost]

6 hours ago, Tech priest support said:

Here's a pic with multiple witnesses in evidence . AFAIC case closed.

 

What is it that you think that picture proves?

[Tech priest support]

That she didn't have a problemm kissing him UNTIL it became a good time to attack a democrat.

 

Now you may try to link this to the Roy Moore issue, however this would be a false equivelancy fallacy. Roy.Moore was a DA and a powerful lawyer, he had a position of power and cod refute his accusers, and possibly have police "invrstigate" them and their families if they accused him. Alabama was very much a "man's world" state where things could go very bad for a woman accusing a man especially if he had legal connections. When they USO tour happened franken was a writer for snl and a book author. What power did he have to coerce or intimidate anyone?

 

Also there is a lot of evidence about Moore, like the fact a mall banned him, he has a signature in a girl's HS yearbook, multiple accusers some of whom are not members of the other political party and there has been a blatant attempt to make it look like Moore is being set up. (The robocalls from a guy claiming to be a Jewish reporter from the NYT offering money to anyone willing to accuse Moore.)

 

What evidence against franken is there other than this woman's word? 

 

 

[Pattern Ghost]

1 hour ago, Tech priest support said:

That she didn't have a problemm kissing him UNTIL it became a good time to attack a democrat.

 

OK. So, I'm not really following this closely. I could be wrong, but here's what I heard on the radio news talky channel as to the nature of the claim:

 

1. Franken wrote a script for a sketch with the female soldier Tweeden where he got to kiss her.

2. Franken got too enthusiastic in practicing said kissing during rehearsal, including trying to slip the young woman some tongue.

3. Franken also had a picture taken of him groping the female soldier's  Tweeden's breasts, while she was asleep.

 

So, to me, the photo supports point 1, since that looks like a live performance of a skit. It neither supports nor disproves claim 2. It doesn't say anything on point 3, either, though Franken admitted that he did it and that it was in poor taste.

 

I'm not certain it shows what you think it does.

 

1 hour ago, Tech priest support said:

Now you may try to

 

I might not. Don't assume.

 

 

[Lectryk]

3 minutes ago, Tech priest support said:

That she didn't have a problemm kissing him UNTIL it became a good time to attack a democrat.

 

Uh... That is *exactly* the same argument Moore's supporters made against his accusers.  "Why didn't she say something when it happened?"  Guess they're not so sloppy after all, if you're validating their argument by using it?

 

 

3 minutes ago, Tech priest support said:

Now you may try to link this to the Roy Moore issue, however this would be a false equivelancy fallacy. Roy.Moore was a DA and a powerful lawyer, he had a position of power and cod refute his accusers, and possibly have police "invrstigate" them and their families if they accused him. Alabama was very much a "man's world" state where things could go very bad for a woman accusing a man especially if he had legal connections. When they USO tour happened franken was a writer for snl and a book author. What power did he have to coerce or intimidate anyone?

 

Nobody here linked it to Moore, until you did.  The rest of your paragraph is incorrect to facts, meandering, and misses the point (I think you're trying to make), about power and authority, and there relationship to abuse of women.

 

3 minutes ago, Tech priest support said:

Also there is a lot of evidence about Moore, like the fact a mall banned him, he has a signature in a girl's HS yearbook, multiple accusers some of whom are not members of the other political party and there has been a blatant attempt to make it look like Moore is being set up. (The robocalls from a guy claiming to be a Jewish reporter from the NYT offering money to anyone willing to accuse Moore.)

 

Again, nobody here was talking about Moore until you brought it up, that she was a conservative, Trump supporter, etc.

 

3 minutes ago, Tech priest support said:

What evidence against franken is there other than this woman's word? 

 

Um, the photographic evidence of Franken in the act, Franken's acknowledgement that the event happened and he did indeed do it.. Is that enough for you?  Of course, we'll ignore the fact that her word that it happened should have been enough to start an inquiry; people would question her veracity...

 

 

 

[Tech priest support]

some people and I am one believe the accusation of franken is a response to the women coming out against Moore. Instead of dealing with it moore's party is throwing the same dirt at the opposition

 

[Pattern Ghost]

Just because I don't think it's been linked, here's a link to Franken's full apology, both his initial statement and his longer formal apology:

 

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/16/politics/al-franken-apology/index.html

 

[Pattern Ghost]

3 minutes ago, Tech priest support said:

some people and I am one believe the accusation of franken is a response to the women coming out against Moore. Instead of dealing with it moore's party is throwing the same dirt at the opposition

 

I think it's reasonable to find the timing of the claim suspect, but I also think you need to be careful not to run afoul of Rule 2 of this thread. It would probably be a good idea to provide cites for specific claims you want to discuss about the people involved. One of your claims has already failed the Snopes sniff test, and Simon has been pretty strict about people bringing in questionable facts in this thread.

[Tech priest support]

She accepted his apology, bow brings it up. Suspicious timing.

 

[Tech priest support]

Oh, and where was the outrage from the people who are expressing so much manufactured outrage over the franken thing when Donald trump forcibly kissed a lesbian police officer  who clearly did not want it, clearly turned away and was clearly offended by it? 

 

https://www.dailydems.com/2017/07/donald-trump-awards-female-police-officer-valor-medal-proceeds-kiss-gross-watch/

 

 

[megaplayboy]

Just a point of correction--Ms. Tweeden was never a soldier.  She was in a flak jacked because USO members, while in transit, are required to wear them.  The kiss photo and photo of her grabbing a perfomer's butt are only relevant if it takes place after the alleged incident in question.