Political Discussion Thread (With Rules)

[Sociotard]

Not to worry about war on abstractions alone. The administration seems to be trying to decide between a war in Iran or North Korea. Because Republicans never learned you shouldn't cut taxes and go to war at the same time.

[megaplayboy]

3 hours ago, Old Man said:

War on Poverty: I'm trying to figure out which side we're on.

That means the war on poor people, right?  We are kicking ass and taking names in that one.  

[Iuz the Evil]

19 minutes ago, megaplayboy said:

That means the war on poor people, right?  We are kicking ass and taking names in that one.  

"We"?

[Ragitsu]

31 minutes ago, megaplayboy said:

That means the war on poor people, right?  We are kicking ass and taking names in that one.  

 

https://techcrunch.com/2017/12/13/security-robots-are-being-used-to-ward-off-san-franciscos-homeless-population/?ncid=tcep&google_editors_picks=true

 

EXTERMINATE. EXTERMINATE. EXTERMINATE.

[Old Man]

Then again the homeless people did set half of California on fire.

[Christopher]

7 hours ago, Ragitsu said:

 

https://techcrunch.com/2017/12/13/security-robots-are-being-used-to-ward-off-san-franciscos-homeless-population/?ncid=tcep&google_editors_picks=true

 

EXTERMINATE. EXTERMINATE. EXTERMINATE.

 

5 hours ago, Old Man said:

Then again the homeless people did set half of California on fire.

"However, the city’s homeless are also associated with higher rates of crime, violence and sometimes episodes of psychosis, leading to safety issues that many feel San Francisco has not had an adequate handle on. "

Wait, people with no access to regular food, shelter and healthcare are more prone to crime and illness? What a twist! Who could have imagined that???[/IRONY]

[Hermit]

7 hours ago, Ragitsu said:

 

https://techcrunch.com/2017/12/13/security-robots-are-being-used-to-ward-off-san-franciscos-homeless-population/?ncid=tcep&google_editors_picks=true

 

EXTERMINATE. EXTERMINATE. EXTERMINATE.

 

So how much does a dismantled robot go for on the black market? I have a domicile challenged friend who wants to know

[DasBroot]

You know, I don't really have a problem with places using security guards (robot or otherwise) to clear homeless people from their property: It's a place of business, not a shelter.

 

(I have a problem with there being so many homeless in the first place and the infrastructure/accessibility/health problems that make hanging around public spaces and private businesses instead of seeking help the status quo.)

[Ragitsu]

This, uh, this..."gesture"...is symbolic of the fact that we are steadily investing more time, money and effort into technology instead of human beings.

[Hermit]

Of course, if you don't like homeless you can just give them a bus ticket. 

 

Here's a study on how much (And how little) that policy helps.

 

Nearby Knoxville actually has a lot of other cities send us their homeless. Apparently Knoxville has some good programs up, so I'm told, and the other cities, upon seeing this went "Well, let's give them more" put folks on buses and wiped their hands of them.

[Iuz the Evil]

http://sfgov.org/scorecards/poverty-san-francisco

 

San Francisco has a pretty first rate set of social programs. There are a lot of factors they're challenged by in achieving the outcomes they want - not least of which is the cost of housing in that city. 

[Christopher]

1 hour ago, Hermit said:

Of course, if you don't like homeless you can just give them a bus ticket. 

 

Here's a study on how much (And how little) that policy helps.

 

Nearby Knoxville actually has a lot of other cities send us their homeless. Apparently Knoxville has some good programs up, so I'm told, and the other cities, upon seeing this went "Well, let's give them more" put folks on buses and wiped their hands of them.

You know that is one of those things that is only a problem because the USA somehow do not get their head around federal programms. You are propably the only nation on the Planet that does not get that.

[Sociotard]

Apparently the Obama Presidential Library is not well received by the locals in Chicago. It will eat up part of a nice park, and also:

Quote

His library will neither contain his presidential documents, which have all been digitized, nor be administered by the National Archives and Records Administration — the two elements required of a presidential library. In fact, the Obama Foundation has named it the Obama Presidential “Center,” and the only books it might contain would come from the Chicago Public Library.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/454807/barack-obama-library-plans-anger-chicago-residents

[Old Man]

California is still on fire by the way

 

Ignored by almost everyone, Puerto Rico has gone 93 days without power and is not likely to get it before March

[Iuz the Evil]

Yeah, the Southern California fires burn on. As noted in the article, despite the scale they are resulting in less property destruction and loss of life than the October north Bay Area fires (Napa/Sonoma). Been a rough year. 

[DShomshak]

22 hours ago, Ternaugh said:

 

I sincerely doubt that any politician will admit to deliberately making a fiscal disaster so that they can have an excuse to get rid of entitlements, and that's not what I was saying. Wisconsin and Maine both elected governors who cut taxes, and then cut benefits and services when the decreased revenues were not enough to cover expenses. I'd also add Kansas to the list (google "Kansas financial crisis"), and also mention that Brownback's tax plan has many components that are duplicated in the Federal plan.

Ah, thank you. I didn't expect politicians would (but you never know, Congresspeople say the loopiest, most self-destructive things sometimes), but I thought maybe a think-tank or ideological commissar such as Grover Norqvist might have laid out the plan in a public setting.

 

I'd heard about the Kansas financial crisis, mostly from stories on the public radio program "Marketplace." Those were mostly about how Brownback implemented a program of tax cuts on the supply-side promise that they'd cause an economic boom and end up increasing tax revenues. Which didn't happen. Just like it's never happened anywhere else. And a lot of Kansans are mad as hell about it -- even many Republicans. I believe there was mention that the legislature was raising taxes in order to climb out of the hole, but I don't remember if that's happened yet.

 

So there's an established pattern of cutting taxes, then crying poverty and cutting services. That could be an evil scheme, but stupidity and insanity can't be ruled out. (If there's a difference.)

 

Dean Shomshak

[Christopher]

16 minutes ago, DShomshak said:

I'd heard about the Kansas financial crisis, mostly from stories on the public radio program "Marketplace." Those were mostly about how Brownback implemented a program of tax cuts on the supply-side promise that they'd cause an economic boom and end up increasing tax revenues. Which didn't happen. Just like it's never happened anywhere else.

"Trickle down economic only never worked in the last 2000 years, when kings owned all the wealth. That does not mean it will not work this time!" - everyone still believing in Trickle Down economics.

[Old Man]

35 minutes ago, DShomshak said:

So there's an established pattern of cutting taxes, then crying poverty and cutting services. That could be an evil scheme, but stupidity and insanity can't be ruled out. (If there's a difference.)

 

After thirty years it is, in fact, time to rule out stupidity and insanity.  Stop giving them the benefit of the doubt.  They're taking advantage of it.

[Ragitsu]

Yeah, really. Politicians have all of recorded history to draw upon. The excuses run thin as information technology continues to advance.

[megaplayboy]

50 minutes ago, Old Man said:

 

After thirty years it is, in fact, time to rule out stupidity and insanity.  Stop giving them the benefit of the doubt.  They're taking advantage of it.

Much of conservative ideology is arguably driven by rich people trying to come up with rationalizations to pay as little in taxes as possible. A robust social safety net is anathema to them, because it means their pile of gold will be 15% lower than otherwise.  

[Xavier Onassiss]

22 hours ago, Ragitsu said:

 

https://techcrunch.com/2017/12/13/security-robots-are-being-used-to-ward-off-san-franciscos-homeless-population/?ncid=tcep&google_editors_picks=true

 

EXTERMINATE. EXTERMINATE. EXTERMINATE.

 

Update: the robots are now unemployed.

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/12/after-outcry-non-profit-stops-use-of-security-robot-to-oust-homeless/

[Old Man]

Are they also homeless?

[Old Man]

[Old Man]

[Ragitsu]

I hear gun advocates/enthusiasts/nuts state that the Second Amendment is crucial because it is an impediment against governmental abuse if not outright tyranny. However, these folks rarely take up arms against police brutality, unfair taxation, gross mismanagement of public funds, annoying civic parades, etc. My question is this: when are they going to collectively rise up and fight back?*

 

* Note that I personally am not advocating for violence or threats of violence. I simply want to understand why certain citizens are adamant about their right to bear arms while never expressing it as part of a method to counteract injustice (imagined or actual).