Pattern Ghost Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 1 minute ago, Starlord said: and when he . . . Hey, now. Let's not give him any ideas. I'll be happy to bump him up a notch or two on the list if he can refrain from starting a nuclear war. (Fun board game, but scary IRL.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlord Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 Russians been fomenting disorder in that manner for awhile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 Just now, Starlord said: Been fomenting disorder in this manner for awhile. I figured I didn't need to mention that, given their recent history. Just noting that they're still at it. Someone should really do something about this. If only our government had some way to impose sanctions on a hostile foreign power . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlord Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 Fox's Shepard Smith tells the truth Twilight and Grailknight 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sociotard Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 I am conflicted. Donald Trump did something I like, but he did it in a stupid, probably illegal way. https://www.yahoo.com/news/donald-trump-directs-justice-department-211146879.html He instructed the Justice Department to start banning bump stocks. Great. But the Justice Department already said they can't do that without a bill passing Congress. So it'll be tossed with the first lawsuit. If Trump were a better leader, he'd have gotten a quick simple bill through, since his party controls both houses. So it goes. And the ban wasn't much of a fix anyway. And my brother super likes his. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 According to the article linked, and the radio news I just heard, he's telling Sessions to recommend regulations to ban bump stocks. I thought that the intent was to come up with something to propose to Congress. There was also a quote of an earlier statement acknowledging that they'd have to go through Congress. It seems like they intend to go through proper channels. Congress should have already banned the things, IMO. As for your brother, likely they'd grandfather existing stocks. IMO, the best way to ban them would be with a grandfather clause and a ban on sale/transfer. That'd be harder to enforce, but make the least waves. Maybe put a flat out ban to take effect further out, say 30 years, ensuring they're gone in a generation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 7 hours ago, Sociotard said: I am conflicted. Donald Trump did something I like, but he did it in a stupid, probably illegal way. https://www.yahoo.com/news/donald-trump-directs-justice-department-211146879.html It is not actually illegal for the president "to order the DoJ to take the nessesary steps for". But do not worry. That one good act does not compensate for the 30 misteps per month thus far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 9 hours ago, Pattern Ghost said: According to the article linked, and the radio news I just heard, he's telling Sessions to recommend regulations to ban bump stocks. I thought that the intent was to come up with something to propose to Congress. There was also a quote of an earlier statement acknowledging that they'd have to go through Congress. It seems like they intend to go through proper channels. Congress should have already banned the things, IMO. As for your brother, likely they'd grandfather existing stocks. IMO, the best way to ban them would be with a grandfather clause and a ban on sale/transfer. That'd be harder to enforce, but make the least waves. Maybe put a flat out ban to take effect further out, say 30 years, ensuring they're gone in a generation. I suggest the US government institute a buyback program for bump stocks, to get as many of them out of circulation as quickly as possible. After all, greed is often a stronger motivator than coercion. The example of Australia suggests that a buyback program for guns in general, with or without legislation, may be another effective route to deal with gun violence: Australia confiscated 650,000 guns. Murders and suicides plummeted. Netzilla 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sociotard Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 3 hours ago, Christopher said: It is not actually illegal for the president "to order the DoJ to take the nessesary steps for". Just a few moments ago, I signed a memorandum directing the attorney general to propose regulations to ban all devices that turn legal weapons into machine guns I missed the part about "propose regulations". Just propose. So he's just asking Sessions to come up with a bill he can push through. That's fine then. Of course it remains to be seen if El Distractissimo can follow through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Lord Liaden said: The example of Australia suggests that a buyback program for guns in general, with or without legislation, may be another effective route to deal with gun violence: Australia confiscated 650,000 guns. Murders and suicides plummeted. That would be the sensible thing to do. So naturally people in america will say: "That might have worked in every other country on the planet, but it will not work for us. Because." Grailknight 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragitsu Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 Thoughts'n'prayers. Don't politicize. Too soon. Twilight and Iuz the Evil 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 That is a reasonable attitude which I respect. However, the youth-driven movement in the United States right now appears unwilling to wait any longer, which I also respect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sociotard Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 United States Youth are notoriously even more easily distracted than Donald Trump. They can do a movement for a year or so (when it is cool and fashionable), but they aren't up for long, boring, difficult task of actually changing gun control laws. Especially as the most effective gun control laws would require a repeal of the 2nd Amendment, which would require an awful lot of red states to get on board, and that just isn't going to happen. Even as the old guys die off, it isn't going to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 4 hours ago, Lord Liaden said: I suggest the US government institute a buyback program for bump stocks, to get as many of them out of circulation as quickly as possible. After all, greed is often a stronger motivator than coercion. Confiscation won't go over well. I think in the current political climate it could lead to more violence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 1 minute ago, Sociotard said: Especially as the most effective gun control laws would require a repeal of the 2nd Amendment, which would require an awful lot of red states to get on board, and that just isn't going to happen. You can limit the damage done in these events effectively without getting rid of the 2nd Amendment. You don't do it by reinstating a ban on features that don't actually make a weapon dangerous. You don't even have to outright ban anything. Just move long guns that fire intermediate and up calibers, have X capacity and can be reloaded with either a detachable magazine or a stripper clip to the NFA list. Want one? No problem. Do the paperwork, go through the stricter background check, and pay for your tax stamp. If you want to get rid of said category of weapon, you ban its manufacture and import. Eventually, the supplies will dwindle as they have for fully automatic weapons. (It'll take a lot longer, but it'll eventually happen.) Handguns are a different matter. Banning the extended-capacity magazines (not what they come with, or a +2 or +3 extension, but the 30+ round magazines intended for SMGs or FA versions of the maker's pistols) should be sufficient. You can still have highly-effective mass shooters like VA Tech, but faster response by police will help to mitigate damage done by getting medical personnel in faster. This is the biggest killer in these shootings: Time. LE has to continue the push started post-Columbine to act faster in taking down an active shooter. There are workable solutions, and you don't even have to outright ban a category of weapons. It's well within Heller and McDonald to restrict access to categories of weapons. Funding for programs to support people before they reach the point of going out in a blaze of glory might also help some. I can remember the last five radio spots I've heard about gun safety, but not the last time I heard a suicide or mental health hotline advertised, for example. Now, someone has to present some actual "common sense" solutions to the issue instead of screaming for an assault weapon ban that didn't work the first time, and didn't work in a stricter mode in San Bernardino, to be reinstated. Because the "shoulder thing that goes up" isn't what does the damage. Stupidly over-specific features lists can easily be engineered around. st barbara 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sociotard Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 I was more interested in the "Red Flag" laws, that would allow friends and family to petition a judge that a specific individual is violent or suicidal and should be disarmed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragitsu Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Lord Liaden said: That is a reasonable attitude which I respect. However, the youth-driven movement in the United States right now appears unwilling to wait any longer, which I also respect. Was this statement created as a response to what I had written? If so, please realize that I was being sarcastic. I'm old enough now to find those refrains (especially from the mouths of politicians) especially nauseating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragitsu Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Pattern Ghost said: There are workable solutions, and you don't even have to outright ban a category of weapons. On that note...there have been folks suggesting that we - the public - arm teachers. I cannot adequately convey the depths of disdain I have for this "remedy". Schools already have metal detectors and security guards. An ever-increasing number are featuring security cameras. Some even utilize canines as not only biological chemical detectors, but protection as well. Barred windows come into play if a neighborhood is especially rough. Despite all of that, we ought to be able to come up with solutions that do not further increase the resemblance between our institutions of education and prisons. Grailknight and Netzilla 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Sociotard said: I was more interested in the "Red Flag" laws, that would allow friends and family to petition a judge that a specific individual is violent or suicidal and should be disarmed. Those seem to be going through on a state by state basis. As long as they allow for some level of due process, I'm for them too. We recently got one in WA, and it seems to have reasonable protections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 14 minutes ago, Ragitsu said: On that note...there have been folks suggesting that we - the public - arm teachers. "Teacher" isn't a class of person I trust with firearms around children. I mean, if we can't trust them not to sexually harass students, and can't trust their union not to force school districts to then reinstate the molesters, we probably shouldn't be arming them. (And this has happened more than once in recent years in my area.) Snark aside, the level of training required before I'd feel comfortable with armed teachers isn't something more than a minuscule number of teachers would go through, so why bother? Basic military training, police academy training, and certainly concealed carry permit training aren't enough IMO. You need some serious trigger time and stress training to be trusted in that situation IMO. Grailknight and Netzilla 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 22 minutes ago, Pattern Ghost said: "Teacher" isn't a class of person I trust with firearms around children. I mean, if we can't trust them not to sexually harass students, and can't trust their union not to force school districts to then reinstate the molesters, we probably shouldn't be arming them. (And this has happened more than once in recent years in my area.) Wait, guns for Teachers? That was literally a off-joke in one of the Hitchikers Guide Books: " The Silastic Armorfiends - that was just the name of their race, for the name of their army was something quite horrific that has fortunately been lost to time - were a race from planet Striterax who lived far back in Milky Way galactic history, when every idea worth fighting for was a new one. And fighting was what the Silastic Armorfiends were good at, and being good at it, they did a lot. They fought their enemies (i.e. everybody else), they fought each other. The best way to pick a fight with a Silastic Armorfiend was just to be born. They didn't like it, they got resentful, and when an Armorfiend got resentful, someone got hurt. An exhausting way of life, one might think, but they did seem to have an awful lot of energy. The best way of dealing with a Silastic Armorfiend was to put him into a room of his own because sooner or later he would simply beat himself up. Eventually they realized that this was something they were going to have to sort out, and they passed a law decreeing that anyone who had to carry a weapon as part of his normal Silastic work (policemen, security guards, elementary school teachers, etc.) had to spend at least forty-five minutes every day punching a sack of potatoes in order to work off his or her surplus aggressions. For a while this worked well, until someone thought that it would be much more efficient and less time-consuming if they just shot the potatoes instead. This led to a renewed enthusiasm for shooting all sorts of things, and they all got very excited at the prospect of their first major war for weeks." - http://alienencyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Silastic_Armorfiend Old Man 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 44 minutes ago, Christopher said: Wait, guns for Teachers? Yeah, some people have been pushing this for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragitsu Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Christopher said: Wait, guns for Teachers? Haven't you heard? The solution for guns is more guns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 2 hours ago, Pattern Ghost said: "Teacher" isn't a class of person I trust with firearms around children. I mean, if we can't trust them not to sexually harass students, and can't trust their union not to force school districts to then reinstate the molesters, we probably shouldn't be arming them. (And this has happened more than once in recent years in my area.) Maybe we should try arming teachers with pencils, health care, and decent salaries first. Never mind, probably too radical. Starlord, Netzilla, Ragitsu and 4 others 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 47 minutes ago, Ragitsu said: Haven't you heard? The solution for guns is more guns. Oh, I heard that: "We need more guns to protect us from the people we already gave guns". It was just...teachers. It instantly remidned me of that Hitchikers Guide Species i linked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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