Political Discussion Thread (With Rules)

[Nolgroth]

I don't know about catharsis, but a good giggle never hurts.

[Old Man]

The President and the Bomb

 

 

 

The entire point of the US command and control system is to guarantee that the President and only the President is capable of authorizing nuclear war whenever he needs to. It is about enabling the President's power, not checking or restricting him.  ...

 

...

 

So is there any check on the President's power to use nuclear weapons? Well, technically the US election process is meant to be that check — don't elect people you don't trust with the unilateral authority to use nuclear weapons.

[Sociotard]

The Democrats' new trade platform sure does sound a lot like Trump

 

 

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.

[Nolgroth]

tl;dr version: No surprises here.

 

As much as I dislike the guy, some of his ideas make sense. It seems only natural for the opposition to try and rebrand those ideas into their own. It's just as natural as, for instance, trying to use the opposition as scapegoats for failed policy. It's politics and there is a discernible methodology that becomes obvious when you step back and look at it with a detached eye. Right now, the American Left (read Democrats) are playing the field better than the Republicans. Despite being the minority party, they are outmaneuvering the Republicans at every turn it seems. The only Republican victory I have seem, is the appointment of Neil Gorsuch to the SCOTUS. There might be a lot of little things that the Republicans have won on, but even the Right-slanted media isn't reporting on those.

 

If the Democrats successfully convince the voters that it is they, not the Republicans that are going to get tough on China and look out for the little guy, the sitting Republicans are legislating on borrowed time. With the Keystone Republicans running around in circles, waving their collective hands in the air, the thought is not at all outside of bounds of reality.

[DShomshak]

This week, All Things Considered interviewed the two leaders of the bipartisan Problem Solvers' Caucus in the U.S. House of Representativesw. I'd never heard of it. When I did, I checked the calendar just to be sure it wasn't actually April 1.

 

Both leaders are rather impatient with their parties, and with Trump.

 

This offers one tiny, distant glimmer of hope for Congress to actually get something done: That eventually enough Republicans will get so fed up with Trump's antics, sleaze and -- perhaps most important -- his complete lack of loyalty to them that they hate him more than the Democrats. Congress can unite against the common enemy.

 

Well, I can dream.

 

Meanwhile, at least we have Venezuela to show just how much worse things *could* be. OTOH, some people might be getting ideas and taking notes.

 

Dean Shomshak

[csyphrett]

A news ticker i saw said Venezuela was dropped from their trading alliance for not being democratic enough

CES

[Michael Hopcroft]

A news ticker i saw said Venezuela was dropped from their trading alliance for not being democratic enough

CES

It was still there?

[Michael Hopcroft]

One of Oregon's US Senators, Jeff Merkely, made a Facebook post (probably written by a staff member -- most politicians are smart enough to vet their tweets and Facebook posts) deriding how enforcement of the Voting Rights Act is being gutted. This of course led to complaints about "illegals voting" and demands that the voting rolls be purged.

 

My personal take on this is like my personal take on justice. I do not object to a few voters getting in who shouldn't be there if that means ten voters who should be voting are not "purged". Maybe it;'s the Oregonian in me, but I very much oppose a system where it is presumed you are an ineligible voter unless you can somehow prove otherwise. It's like the judicial system, in which I am willing to liver with seemingly appalling verdicts (the first OJ trial, the Bundys in Malheur County) because I would much rather release a guilty person than condemn an innocent one.

 

What kind of civics are they teaching these days if voter suppression is viewed as virtuous, or an accused person is guilty until so proven?

[Pariah]

It's called "Civics by Social Media". Facebook/Twitter is viewed as equally authoritative as NBC/CNN/Fox News. And social media people are WAY more in touch than that middle-aged guy teaching Social Studies at the local high school.

[Michael Hopcroft]

It's called "Civics by Social Media". Facebook/Twitter is viewed as equally authoritative as NBC/CNN/Fox News. And social media people are WAY more in touch than that middle-aged guy teaching Social Studies at the local high school.

When I was in school, "Social Studies" was taught in sixth through eighth grades and covered the cultures of other nations. Of course, this was during the Cold War so much of what was taught was outright lies. Then, in high school, there was a specific course about Civics.

 

I wonder if civics is even taught anymore, and if it is how substantially it varies from state to state.

[Lawnmower Boy]

When I was in school, "Social Studies" was taught in sixth through eighth grades and covered the cultures of other nations. Of course, this was during the Cold War so much of what was taught was outright lies. Then, in high school, there was a specific course about Civics.

 

I wonder if civics is even taught anymore, and if it is how substantially it varies from state to state.

As it happens, I have a schedule for the local high school in front of me, so we can check, at least for this province. (This is a semester system school, and I've only pulled out the Wednesday schedule).

 

8ish to about when you feel: Straggle in.

9ish/10ish: LOLWUT

11-12: Sexting (Second semester covers extra genders)

12-1: 420

1-2: Social Media Your Parents Aren't On

2-3: Bullying

3-Whenever: Extracurriculars (sex)

 

In summary, Those kids today, with their baggy pants and their hip-hop music.

[wcw43921]

This is what right-wingers think is a "sick" message.

[Michael Hopcroft]

You're not going to share a beer with a practicing Muslim, but the point still stands.

[Iuz the Evil]

"See, I don't like that"

 

-Hellboy

[Old Man]

This is what right-wingers think is a "sick" message.

It's astonishing how Communist that article sounded.

[Michael Hopcroft]

This is what right-wingers think is a "sick" message.

 

 

It's astonishing how Communist that article sounded.

More like something Streicher-esque. Disgusting.

[Nolgroth]

This is what right-wingers think is a "sick" message.

 

As a "right-winger," I find the sentiment around the message very endearing. I think the practicality of a world without national borders is still some time off and am still undecided as to whether global homogenization is a good thing or not.  Still, I think that looking towards our similarities and finding common ground are important steps in getting past the cesspool of a world we live in now. Maybe I'm just an extremist.

[Sociotard]

I think it's a bit like how everyone assumes Japan is full of sex weirdos. It's not, but it fills the media that we get imported from Japan. The most extreme of anything is what rises to attention. So we assume that all conservatives are xenophobes because of reactions like that, even though most conservatives would abhor that reaction.

[Tech priest support]

Christ. North Korea is, so the media and government tell us, developing a nuclear warhead to pair with their long range missiles.

 

The psychopathic megalomaniac in the white house is talking about "fire and fury like the world has never seen" in response to this.

 

Guys, is anyone else actually scared by this today? I damn well am. That psychopath is pretty clearly a narcissist and megalomaniac. I'm honestly thinking it literally wants to order a massive attack, possibly including the use of nuclear weapons, just to feed it's megalomania and narcissim with crowds of its devotees hailing it and shouting "TRUMP!TRUMP!TRUMP!" as footage of nuclear weapons being used at its command are played.

 

I'm thinking of my family and the things I cherish, and I am filled with fear and dread.

 

I can't talk to my family about this without stressing them. I just wonder if i'm overreacting or not. Anyone else have any feelings about today's news?

[Michael Hopcroft]

As a "right-winger," I find the sentiment around the message very endearing. I think the practicality of a world without national borders is still some time off and am still undecided as to whether global homogenization is a good thing or not.  Still, I think that looking towards our similarities and finding common ground are important steps in getting past the cesspool of a world we live in now. Maybe I'm just an extremist.

I don't view is as "homogenization" Is America homogeneous? No. Homogeneity implies things like a single religion, a single language, and a single national identity. America has none of these things. And you know what? None of these things are at all desirable. Can you imagine how boring life would be if everyone ate, wore,read, and viewed the same things? If everybody prayed the same way to the same concept of God? If deviance from those "national ideals" was swiftly and ruthlessly punished.

 

If you would like a country like that, welcome to Pyongyang.

[Lord Liaden]

TPS, there's no doubt the North Korea situation is worrying. There's also no doubt Donald Trump is not the most stable personality. But you shouldn't let his bombast make you think he'll actually do something insane at any moment. Every word out of Trump's mouth is hyperbole. Everything he talks about is "the biggest," "the greatest," or "the worst" the world has ever seen. I think it's his salesman's instincts. We have a long way to go from hype to real action.

[DShomshak]

I do find Trump's rhetoric worrying, because the guy on the other end might be none too reasonable, either. As the current issue of The Economist suggests, one of the more likely scenarios for war consists of a series of miscalculations, each side escalating on the assumption that the other side will be cowed, see reason and back down.

 

I also find Trump's rhetoric embarrassing. Presidents of great and modern states should not bluster like Saddam Hussein or the bemedalled generalissimos of banana republics.

 

It's the difference between a culture of face and a culture of dignity. (Sorry if that's opaque. Read Pinker's The Better Angels Of Our Nature.)

 

Dean Shomshak

[Nolgroth]

@Tech Priest Support: Not scared. I grew up during the Reagan administration and heard the exact same fears expressed time and again, only then it was the Soviet Union on the other side. Now that filled me with dread.

 

North Korea might turn out to be a catalyst for a much bigger and worse conflict, but by itself I am not so concerned. What concerns me more is that China or Russia may create an opportunity while we are distracted by the gnats in North Korea. Maybe even leverage their support at great cost to the United States.

[Old Man]

They're literally dusting off the civil defense plans for nuclear attack here.  Time to buy some fallout shelter signs!

 

Though I am nominally in range, I'm not that frightened because 1) NK nukes so far are "merely" atomic, not thermonuclear, so they're basically tacnukes that won't end civilization or incinerate the entire island in one go; and 2) while Jong-Un is clearly a Bond villain, I don't think he's that nuts.

[Pattern Ghost]

I heard this on the car radio earlier. The story quoted someone (missed who) as saying that NK's missiles can't survive reentry yet, so they're not quite ready to go at this point.