Political Discussion Thread (With Rules)

[Michael Hopcroft]

China may stand with sanctions, but they won't stand for a nuclear bomb being used against someone so close to them geographically. And unlike the NK, China has nukes that work.

 

I have always believed China is so heavily invested in peace that they can be pushed a long way before breaking. But seeing Pyongyang go up in atomic fire is a provocation no national can abide.

 

No fallout shelter for me, though. If all-out nuclear war does come, I want to be as close to ground zero as possible so I would die swiftly and not have to deal with an agonizing, slow death from fallout and riot.

[Pattern Ghost]

Too soon to plan your death, IMO. Though dying of embarrassment is a real possibility given this latest outburst.

[Twilight]

China may stand with sanctions, but they won't stand for a nuclear bomb being used against someone so close to them geographically. And unlike the NK, China has nukes that work.

 

I have always believed China is so heavily invested in peace that they can be pushed a long way before breaking. But seeing Pyongyang go up in atomic fire is a provocation no national can abide.

 

No fallout shelter for me, though. If all-out nuclear war does come, I want to be as close to ground zero as possible so I would die swiftly and not have to deal with an agonizing, slow death from fallout and riot.

I rather doubt it would get that far.  China might be devoted to peace but their government aren't exactly nice and I imagine if the Kims keep poking the Tribble Haired Cheeto Man the way they are, they might arrange for the Kims to encounter some sort of fatal misfortune.  Much preferable then firing off nukes I'd imagine and I have to think there's not much benefit to China in backing the Kims these days.

[Michael Hopcroft]

Embarrassment is highly possible, if not something worse (Simon is monitoring this thread, after all. If he does in fact get fed up with me, well I'll miss you guys regardless of whether Portland is still standing this time next week. And I hope it is. I have a LAN coming up in November, and not being alive for it would be inconvenient.)

[Pariah]

Observation: Internet trolls live for attention. Stop feeding them, and eventually they go away.

 

Hypothesis: Even with all the exposure and power his current position provides, President Trump is essentially an Internet troll.

 

Proposed experiment: Stop feeding him. For 15 days, or 30 days, or 60 days, let's get the news services and those with moderate and leftist political leanings to agree not to respond to anything the President tweets. No outrage, no name-calling, no overblown analysis. Simply no response at all.

 

Possible outcome: Without all the attention, President Trump eventually becomes bored, resigns the Presidency, and goes back to being a reality show star.

 

Likelihood of success: Highly unlikely. But at this point, why not give it a shot?

[Doc Shadow]

I've got a better idea.

 

Buy him off. The only thing Trumpy Dumpty loves more than himself is money.

 

So here's the deal:

 

Trump agrees to fire Pence, appoints an intelligent, moderate Republican as Vice President (Colin Powell would be a good choice), as soon as he's confirmed by the Senate Trump resigns. Two months after leaving office $50 billion is deposited in Trump bank account, and the investigation is put on permanent hold as long as he stays out of politics.

 

Might have to give him $100 billion, but we'll start with 50. He can say he had no idea being president was so difficult (probably true) as a way of saving face.

 

It's a lot of money but to get rid of Trump, I think it's worth it.

 

Got this idea from an episode of The West Wing.

 

[Old Man]

It's entirely possible that he's already been given twenty percent of Rosneft. I can't outbid that.

[Old Man]

Unfortunately reentry is a relatively easy problem to solve compared to the rocket science and nuclear engineering parts.

[Tech priest support]

Thanks guys..The issue is that we have a selfish manbaby who has been raised with a sense of superiority and entitlement that thinks he can do anything he wants and treat people any way he wants. He has never been forced to face consequences for any abuse he has inflicted on anyone.

 

Now he has access to the biggest toys in the world: nuclear weapons. Beds never been told no in his "adult" life and he's never shown a trace of hesitation or remorse when it came to getting his way. Look at what he did to his own brother's family to get his brother's share of the family fortune.

 

I think he wants to be the ultimate "little billy badass" and use a nuke. And his cultists will practically orgasm themselves to death as be tells them they made it possible to him to do it.

 

Then of course comes the state of emergency as possible retaliation from unspecified sources is possible, martial law, suspension of the constitution, oppression of "disloyalty".... And Trump's megalomania is fufilled as he becomes total, unquestioned and absolute lord of america.

 

Bill Maher was right when he said a nation can vote a dictator into power but you can't vote one out.

 

I swear I'm an agnostic, but now, Trump makes me actually wish that some kind of Hell exists. An appropriate one where the punishment fits the crime and not just a generic "one size fits all" lake of fire.

[Lord Liaden]

Got this idea from an episode of The West Wing.

 

 

Never have I wished more for Jeb Bartlet to be real.

[Lord Liaden]

Thanks guys..The issue is that we have a selfish manbaby who has been raised with a sense of superiority and entitlement that thinks he can do anything he wants and treat people any way he wants. He has never been forced to face consequences for any abuse he has inflicted on anyone.

 

Now he has access to the biggest toys in the world: nuclear weapons. Beds never been told no in his "adult" life and he's never shown a trace of hesitation or remorse when it came to getting his way. Look at what he did to his own brother's family to get his brother's share of the family fortune.

 

I think he wants to be the ultimate "little billy badass" and use a nuke. And his cultists will practically orgasm themselves to death as be tells them they made it possible to him to do it.

 

Then of course comes the state of emergency as possible retaliation from unspecified sources is possible, martial law, suspension of the constitution, oppression of "disloyalty".... And Trump's megalomania is fufilled as he becomes total, unquestioned and absolute lord of america.

 

Bill Maher was right when he said a nation can vote a dictator into power but you can't vote one out.

 

I swear I'm an agnostic, but now, Trump makes me actually wish that some kind of Hell exists. An appropriate one where the punishment fits the crime and not just a generic "one size fits all" lake of fire.

 

Respectfully, I don't think you're giving the American people and system of government enough credit. The founding fathers built checks and balances into the Constitution to prevent that scenario from happening. We're already seeing them come into play: the legislature and the judiciary are aligning, in surprisingly non-partisan fashion, to restrain some of the Donald's excesses and bypass his obstructions. His core supporters still cheer him, but that core is a minority of the public, and isn't growing or is shrinking, depending on which poll you believe.

 

IME the one thing that American ultra-conservatives revere even more than Trump's rhetoric, is their Constitution. If President Trump starts treading on that, I believe his support will melt away..

[Simon]

Watch the hyperbole, folks.

[Doc Shadow]

We'll try, Boss. But it's hard.  What would clearly be hyperbole with anyone else is pretty close to just accuracy in this situation. And to be honest I'm scared.

[Armory]

Respectfully, I don't think you're giving the American people and system of government enough credit. The founding fathers built checks and balances into the Constitution to prevent that scenario from happening. We're already seeing them come into play: the legislature and the judiciary are aligning, in surprisingly non-partisan fashion, to restrain some of the Donald's excesses and bypass his obstructions. His core supporters still cheer him, but that core is a minority of the public, and isn't growing or is shrinking, depending on which poll you believe.

 

IME the one thing that American ultra-conservatives revere even more than Trump's rhetoric, is their Constitution. If President Trump starts treading on that, I believe his support will melt away..

 

Yeah, they say they do.  They also claim to revere the concept of limited government.  Until they're in charge of it.

[Lectryk]

Yeah, they say they do.  They also claim to revere the concept of limited government.  Until they're in charge of it.

 

 

What do you mean?  The conservatives aren't in charge of government now.  There is a coalition of neocon RINO's (in the sense that they've sold out the values of the Republican party for political expediency) and anti-everything-somewhat intelligent (the know-nothings have always been with us, just who they hate changes) in there, but nary a Conservative in the true sense of the word.  

[Armory]

Well, that's mostly what I mean, but honestly, Republicans RINO or otherwise haven't walked the 'limited government' walk in a very long time.  True conservatives have no place in either major party right now.

[Joe Walsh]

Now Trump's lying about our nuclear arsenal, claiming it's been renovated since he took office. They haven't even begun that project, and of course it'll take years, not months. Something NK surely knows.

 

Mattis' warning that NK "should cease any consideration of actions that would lead to the end of its regime and the destruction of its people" sounds strangely reasonable in comparison to Trump's tweets.

[Pariah]

I've got a better idea.

 

Buy him off. The only thing Trumpy Dumpty loves more than himself is money.

 

So here's the deal:

 

Trump agrees to fire Pence, appoints an intelligent, moderate Republican as Vice President (Colin Powell would be a good choice), as soon as he's confirmed by the Senate Trump resigns. Two months after leaving office $50 billion is deposited in Trump bank account, and the investigation is put on permanent hold as long as he stays out of politics.

 

Might have to give him $100 billion, but we'll start with 50. He can say he had no idea being president was so difficult (probably true) as a way of saving face.

 

It's a lot of money but to get rid of Trump, I think it's worth it.

$100B vs. the potential cost of a war with North Korea/China/Russia?

 

Sounds like a bargain.

[Nolgroth]

$100B vs. the potential cost of a war with North Korea/China/Russia?

 

Sounds like a bargain.

While many things are flawed in the concept of bribing a sitting POTUS to resign, the VP can only be involuntarily removed through impeachment. That process could take a year or more and honestly, Pence is an establishment guy. I don't see Congress pursuing that agenda.

 

Still, you are right about the dollar amount versus the alternative.

[Lord Liaden]

Maybe budget $50 billion for each of them? You could probably devote a larger percentage of the total to Trump -- I would bet Pence's asking price would be considerably lower.

[Sociotard]

The other way around. Pence is a career politician. This is his briar patch.  He might not appreciate his boss, but he likes his work.

[Doc Shadow]

Maybe, but the indications are he was up to his neck in Trump's shenanigans. He'll probably jump at the chance to avoid charges, especially if it comes with a billion dollar golden parachute.

[Tech priest support]

We'll try, Boss. But it's hard.  What would clearly be hyperbole with anyone else is pretty close to just accuracy in this situation. And to be honest I'm scared.

Nothing to be ashamed of. It just means you have some functional sense of awareness. And don't feel lonely.

[Tech priest support]

Well, that's mostly what I mean, but honestly, Republicans RINO or otherwise haven't walked the 'limited government' walk in a very long time.  True conservatives have no place in either major party right now.

Yeah, "limited government" and "state's rights" until a state legalizes majijuana, at which point it's "Send in the feds!" time.

[Michael Hopcroft]

Now Trump's lying about our nuclear arsenal, claiming it's been renovated since he took office. They haven't even begun that project, and of course it'll take years, not months. Something NK surely knows.

 

Mattis' warning that NK "should cease any consideration of actions that would lead to the end of its regime and the destruction of its people" sounds strangely reasonable in comparison to Trump's tweets.

This "government by social media" is getting waaay out of hand. The President doesn't seem to realize the need for politicians to put themselves "on script" when discussing a crisis -- in other words, not to say anything at least until the issues have been thoroughly explained to him.

 

Case in point -- opiates. The US is having major problems with the over-prescription and abuse of opiate painkillers (Hydrocodone, Oxycontin, etc.). A panel was set up to study the situation, and came up with a public health approach to addiction -- the most rational way tto address it, especially on the basis of individuals.

 

So what does Trump do when the report crosses his desk? After all that work from the study group? He ignores it. For all we know he might have thrown it away without even reading it. He then announces -- by social media, of course -- that he is going to take a hard-line "law and order" approach to this drug issue and drug issues in general, ramping up the old War on Drugs that is essentially lost. Maybe he's trying to help the private prisons keep up a ready supply of what is essentially slave labor. But what this says is that there's no point in telling the President anything because he prefers to be ignorant.

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If Kim Jong Un were to call the President on the phone hoping to work out a peaceful resolution to the Korean Missile Crisis (which is what historians are going to call this ten years from now, assuming any historians are left), why do I get the feeling Trump wouldn't take the call?