Amorkca Posted April 24, 2016 Report Share Posted April 24, 2016 Hi All Been building a character who is strong (STR 75) who is also a boxer. Now if I give him a Jab (Defensive Strike) its +1 OCV, +3 DCV, 15d6 Strike. Can I apply auto fire to that so he hits twice with the one punch? Or if I want the Rabbit Punch do I just buy it as a regular (2 shot) auto fire attack? If so does he get the increased OCV/DCV mods? I don't see any way to apply the Martial Arts to an auto fire attack... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tholomyes Posted April 24, 2016 Report Share Posted April 24, 2016 I believe it would be doable with naked advantages, so you'd buy +1/4 Autofire (2 shots) for Hand-to-Hand attacks of up to 15d6 (19 points) (alternatively you could buy it onto strength, but I can't see a reason why one would be preferrable over the other). In such a case, I believe you would get OCV/DCV mods. In the event you wanted to add more damage (for example with an Offensive Strike) onto said autofire attack it'd add based on the "Adding Damage to attacks with advantages" section (6e2 101; can't find CC if that's more useful, but I'm sure it's in the index), and you would still add whatever benefits (or penalties) to OCV and DCV in that case Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 Here's how I would build it. If you don't purchase it as a Naked Advantage then technically it's always active like a Blast built with Explosion. VAL CHA Cost Roll Notes75 STR 65 24- HTH Damage 15d6 END [7]Characteristics Total: 65Cost Powers38 Rapid Punching: Autofire (3 shots; +1/4) for up to 75 Active Points of STR, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1) (38 Active Points)[Notes: Each 'Punch' thrown still costs END for STR used.] - END=0Powers Total: 38 HM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amorkca Posted April 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 I discovered that I could add an advantage to MA with Hero Designer... this is what I came up with... 19 Combination: 1/2 Phase, +2 OCV, +0 DCV, 17d6 Strike, Autofire (2 shots; +1/4) (19 Active Points); Concentration, Must Concentrate throughout use of Constant Power (1/2 DCV; -1/2) I used the Fast Strike MA and added Autofire to it, to lower the cost I added a limitation of Concentrate although I don't know whether thats a good limitation for it... And this would use up 9 End per punch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasha Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 I discovered that I could add an advantage to MA with Hero Designer... this is what I came up with... 19 Combination: 1/2 Phase, +2 OCV, +0 DCV, 17d6 Strike, Autofire (2 shots; +1/4) (19 Active Points); Concentration, Must Concentrate throughout use of Constant Power (1/2 DCV; -1/2) I used the Fast Strike MA and added Autofire to it, to lower the cost I added a limitation of Concentrate although I don't know whether thats a good limitation for it... And this would use up 9 End per punch? You CAN just double strike as a maneuver. There's even a combat talent that allows a PC to do it in a half phase. -2 OCV per target after the first one. It's even half DCV IIRC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 I discovered that I could add an advantage to MA with Hero Designer... this is what I came up with... 19 Combination: 1/2 Phase, +2 OCV, +0 DCV, 17d6 Strike, Autofire (2 shots; +1/4) (19 Active Points); Concentration, Must Concentrate throughout use of Constant Power (1/2 DCV; -1/2) I used the Fast Strike MA and added Autofire to it, to lower the cost I added a limitation of Concentrate although I don't know whether thats a good limitation for it... And this would use up 9 End per punch? I've never messed around with Advantages directly applied to Martial Maneuvers but it looks good. And yes, it would cost 9 END per punch. You CAN just double strike as a maneuver. There's even a combat talent that allows a PC to do it in a half phase. -2 OCV per target after the first one. It's even half DCV IIRC. I started to suggest this earlier as well but the big difference between Autofire and using Multiple attack is that the OCV Penalty for using the later is up front unlike with Autofire. Also, they technically can be combined! from my John Wick writeup: 0 3) Multiple Attack (Free Maneuver) (Custom Adder) [Notes: Multiple Attack requires a Full Phase to use (the Rapid Attack Skill, 6E1 87, reduces this to a Half Phase). Using it reduces the character to ½ DCV. The character’s OCV is affected by the number of targets, the types of attacks used, and other factors (see below). A character using Multiple Attack has to make a separate Attack Roll for each attack in the sequence. If he misses any of his Attack Rolls, all remaining attacks in that Multiple Attack sequence automatically miss also. A character making a Multiple Attack must expend END or Charges for each attack made (this includes any that automatically miss because he missed one in the sequence). He may elect to stop the Multiple Attack after any successful attack. This does not retroactively diminish the OCV and DCV penalties for using the Maneuver, but it saves END or Charges. A character making a Multiple Attack against multiple targets can choose to attack some or all of them more than once, but this of course increases the number of attacks (and thus the OCV penalty suffered; see below). For example, Thunderbird could make a Multiple Attack with his pistol by shooting Lazer once, Mechassassin twice, and Steel Commando once. That’s a total of four attacks, so he suffers a -6 OCV penalty on all the Attack Rolls.] 10 4) Rapid Attack [Notes: A character with this Combat Skill has a heightened ability to move in combat. He can make a Multiple Attack (6E2 73) as a Half Phase Action, instead of a Full Phase Action. (This includes Multiple Attacks made with the Two-Weapon Fighting Skill.) No roll is required, and all other Multiple Attack penalties and rules apply.] HM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 And don't forget there is also a Defensive Attack skill in APG1 that reduces the DCV penalty to -2. The advantage to using the skills instead of applying an advantage is that the skills will apply to all the character's attacks. Each one runs 5 points for HTH Only (-1 Limitation): Rapid Attack, Defensive Attack and Two-Weapon Fighting. Two HTH attacks each phase at -2 DCV. A 4 SPD character can really cut loose this way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amorkca Posted April 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 I don't have APG1, is this skill available in Hero Designer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 I don't have APG1, is this skill available in Hero Designer? No, you'd have to recreate it via the Custom Skill option. I considered but decided against using it on my version of John Wick. from APG1 page 8: Defensive AttackA character with this optional new Combat Skill has a heightened ability to avoid attacks in combat. He only suffers a -2 DCV when making a Multiple Attack (6E2 73), rather than his DCV being halved. (This includes Multiple Attacks made with the Two-Weapon Fighting Skill.) No roll is required, and all other Multiple Attack penalties and rules apply. Defensive Attack costs 10 Character Points and applies to all forms of Multiple Attack. If a character only wants to be able to use it with Multiple Attacks only featuring HTH attacks, or only featuring Ranged attacks, he can apply a -1 Limitation, HTH Multiple Attacks Only or Ranged Multiple Attacks Only. HM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba smith Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 don't forget disadvantage feels inferior to other supers {ala the atom in all star squadron] disadvantage is treated as criminal by others[common moderate] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 There are several interpretations for being "a Boxer" or "a Martial Artist". One is using Martial Arts, the rules construct. Then there are Combat Skill Level (CSL). The other is "just as a special effect for high DC, OCV and DCV". As I see it Martial Arts and CSL are just rules constructs to get higher OCV, DCV and DC with limitations. They are inherently inverior to just having high values and powers to begin with. They allow you do get a boost cheaper, but with lots of downsides. One of them is being pretty much incompatible/uncalculable with any advantages. By RAW they have no Active Point value, so no Naked Advantage can be applied/calculated for them. Extended Rules: Hero System Martial Arts 106 has a Section "Power Advantages for martial Arts". It is marked with a big STOP sign and an extra warning after the first paragraph. Basically it gives you a formula to put a "Active Point Price Tag" on every Martial Arts maneuver. Wich can then be used to calculate Single Power Naked Advantages. The rule is explicit that Advantages on STR do not affect Martial Arts and that you can't apply any Group Naked Advantage to cover all Martial Arts - you have to buy the advantages per Maneuver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amorkca Posted April 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 Extended Rules: Hero System Martial Arts 106 has a Section "Power Advantages for martial Arts". It is marked with a big STOP sign and an extra warning after the first paragraph. Basically it gives you a formula to put a "Active Point Price Tag" on every Martial Arts maneuver. Wich can then be used to calculate Single Power Naked Advantages. The rule is explicit that Advantages on STR do not affect Martial Arts and that you can't apply any Group Naked Advantage to cover all Martial Arts - you have to buy the advantages per Maneuver. I did this within HD applying the auto fire to one of the maneuvers, the cost was like 28 points for the one ability so I added concentrate to lower the cost, bringing it more in line with applying it as a naked advantage to his strength. hmmm, If I just apply Autofire to his Str the cost is 19 points, but he gains 2D6 (17D6) if I apply it to the maneuver. That might be a better way to do it... Something to ponder! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 I did this within HD applying the auto fire to one of the maneuvers, the cost was like 28 points for the one ability so I added concentrate to lower the cost, bringing it more in line with applying it as a naked advantage to his strength. hmmm, If I just apply Autofire to his Str the cost is 19 points, but he gains 2D6 (17D6) if I apply it to the maneuver. That might be a better way to do it... Something to ponder! If you apply autofire (or any "Advantage that affects DC calculation") to STR, it only affects the Basic Strike Maneuver done with that Strenght. Also I think you might have forgotten to adapt the damage to the changed DC/dice curve you get from adding advantages. Martial Arts Maneuvers are explicitly maneuvers seperate from the basic ones that can not benefit from DC affecting advantages on Strenght. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assault Posted April 27, 2016 Report Share Posted April 27, 2016 Boxing can be adequately represented by a combination of HA and skill levels. It tends to lack the fancy maneuvers that aren't basically extensions of the basic ones. Since HA is a power, advantaging it is straightforward. There's not point to doing the same to the skill levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hadmar von Wieser Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 Or if I want the Rabbit Punch do I just buy it as a regular (2 shot) auto fire attack? Was that reference to the Rabbit Punch a pun on Rapid Punch , a misspelling, or just a coincidence due to an actual reference to the maneuver (which is 1 hit, not 2)? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbit_punch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinecone Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 Was that reference to the Rabbit Punch a pun on Rapid Punch , a misspelling, or just a coincidence due to an actual reference to the maneuver (which is 1 hit, not 2)? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbit_punch This...I'd look at " Killing Blow" for a Rabbit punch though plenty of folks are not familiar with the term.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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