Abort to Dodge, Abort to Dive for Cover

[Scott Anderson]

How do you decide between Abort to Dodge and Abort to Dive for Cover against an attack?  Can you decide which to do after you see what kind of attack you're facing, or do you need to decide which Maneuver to use at the time you declare your Abort?

[Christopher R Taylor]

I'd say its situational.  If someone pulls out a hand grenade or the dragon takes a deep breath, then characters should be able to recognize that's going to be an area effect attack and choose dive for cover.  If its just some weird alien with a ray gun, you have no clue in advance and have to just take your chances, the first time at least.

[Nolgroth]

The whole reason to abort is to counter the attack that is made. In real time, the GM describes the attack and you make a decision as to the more appropriate defensive action. In game time, your character sees the axe blade coming and Dodges or sees the wizard fling a ball of fire and Dives for Cover. I suppose a GM might require some sort of Analyze roll to determine if your character will know which way to go, but that seems churlish to me. Your "penalty" for Aborting is already established in the rules (i.e. you don't get to attack on your next Phase). Adding an additional penalty that the Abort didn't even work as intended seems like combative GM'ing.

[Christopher]

The question you are asking is:

How obvious is it that an attack is going to be a AoE/single target before I choose to dodge or Dive for Cover?

 

The answer is:
If you never saw it, there is nothing obvious about it. If you saw the attack at least once you can identify it again (per the rules for obviousness of a attack power).

If it has an obvious telltale (like a Charge or Focus shaped like a grenade), you can identify it. Plus it is SOP to always shout "grenade" when throwing one, so your team won't be caught in the blast/is ready to shoot anyone exiting cover in a hurry.

If you seen a very similar attack (any other Fireball or the same beam from anotehr aliens rifle) before, you can propably identify it on the same grounds as a grenade - similar enough.

 

By nature you will at tops be caught off guard/with wrong abort once. Afterwards you can identify that power. And even that one time it won't be a combat ender in itself. Area of Effect has a massive impact on DC/dice ratio, wich means AoE is mostly usefull in heroic games (where it has obvious, easily identified telltales) or in superheroics to hit speedsters/martial arists wich have low Defenses.

[Tholomyes]

One thing I do, in the case of effects that aren't innately obvious, like a grenade, is to use a different cue to whether it's an AoE or not. According to 6e1 125, among other things, one of the things that a character can see for perceivable powers is the target, which in the case of AoEs is a Hex, not a character. Unless the power is Inobvious or Invisible, or the character can't perceive the source of the effect (being Flashed, attacked from behind, etc), if they decide to dodge or dive for cover, I'll give them a hint like "As you're ready to dodge out of the way, you notice [Villain's name] doesn't seem to be aiming at you, but the ground beneath you" so they can dive for cover instead, if they wish.

 

In the case of Inobvious power effects, they're not going to see it automatically, so once they give the "I'm going to Abort to Dodge" I ask them to make a PER roll. If they succeed, they get to dive for cover instead, otherwise they get hit by the AoE and still miss out on their next phase from aborting

 

The first time the villain uses the ability, I might give this the element of surprise, and make them have to roll a PER check to notice (or simply not be able to notice for inobvious or invisible power effects), since they're not going to be as vigilant on the fact that the enemy is using an AoE, but otherwise I give it to them.

[Hyper-Man]

Note that there are a variety of special effects besides grenade-like explosions that might use AOE or even AOE Accurate mechanics.

 

examples:

• A stretchy or BIG character with huge hands could potentially have an AOE HTH attack.
• An alien who can shoot lasers out of his eyes might have an AOE Accurate attack that causes his eyes to glow red just before use.
• A speedster might be able to throw a punch so fast that unless a character has a targeting sense with Rapid x100, a different targeting sense or Danger Sense they can't even react to the attack*.

 

*(VPP slot) Superspeed Punch v1: Hand-To-Hand Attack +6d6, Invisible Power Effects (Inobvious to [sight Group] Remove if combined with an Advantage other than "AOE"; +1/4), Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4), Area Of Effect Accurate (4m Radius; 6e damage prorating rules mean that STR and Manuever Damage adds at 2/3 the normal rate (20 STR adds +2DC, Move By adds +1DC per 15m) VPP as Variable Advantage: AOE Accurate can be replaced with other appropriate Advantages adding up to +1/2 like Armor Piercing, Double Knockback, Indirect, Penetrating etc...; +1/2) (60 Active Points); Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/4) Real Cost: 40
Notes: This slot normally represents punching at such Super Speed that the attack appears to be 'invisible'. Optionally, targets with enough levels of Rapid with Sight could still see the "Punch". In 6e AOE Accurate combined with HA is normally not Blockable or Dodgeable (changed from 5e). As built, only a target with Rapid Sight or another Targeting Sense could even sense the attack coming and attempt a Dive for Cover. END 2

 

 

HM

[eepjr24]

Curious about peoples thoughts on the various incarnations of Whirlwind attack (an other AOE that are OIF: Weapon of Opportunity based) and whether folks should automatically know to dive for cover or dodge. And also whether they think that Selective or Nonselective on the AOE should make a difference, since in those cases they are being targeted directly? 

 

I agree for the most part that once you have seen a particular effect it is obvious and if they don't want it to be they need to spend the points on IPE or the like, but some of these get a little blurred, at least to my way of thinking.

 

- E

[Christopher]

Curious about peoples thoughts on the various incarnations of Whirlwind attack (an other AOE that are OIF: Weapon of Opportunity based) and whether folks should automatically know to dive for cover or dodge. And also whether they think that Selective or Nonselective on the AOE should make a difference, since in those cases they are being targeted directly? 

 

I agree for the most part that once you have seen a particular effect it is obvious and if they don't want it to be they need to spend the points on IPE or the like, but some of these get a little blurred, at least to my way of thinking.

 

- E

Whirwind attack can mean a lot of things, inllcuding the Multiple Attack Maneuver.

If it is actually build with AoE, it depends on how common that maneuver is. In a martial arts campaign any of the Characters will propably have seen a Whirlwind attack at least once during training. Being able to recognize the attacks comming your way is part of any Martial Arts Training in Superheroic level Fiction.

 

For AoE Selective or Non-selective it makes no difference if you dodge or Dive for Cover. Both are valid defenses.

Actually, if the dive for cover fails the DCV penalty will get back bite you. And there is a roll. So it would actually be the worse maneuver.

[Hyper-Man]

There is one way to eliminate the need to make a choice between Dodge and Dive for Cover - Flying Dodge.

 

Flying Dodge is a maneuver that is presented as part of a speedster martial arts package in the two Ultimate MA books and Hero System Martial Arts.  It provides ALL the benefits of both maneuvers. Access to it should be limited characters whose schtick is such high agility as to never be hit.  There is no real world example martial art in any of the books that includes it as a maneuver.

 

HM