"You never see them together in the same room, do you?"

[Scott Anderson]

Here's a build question for you.

 

Suppose there's a superhero named Sunbeam, and all his Powers are built with gadgets.  He has all sorts of sun-based powers, rides around in the Sunbeam-Mobile, and has friends in wholesome places.  He is only ever seen during the day.  His sidekick DNPC, the Popcorn Kid, naturally only comes out during the day as well.

 

Then there's Spooky Man, a Halloween themed vigilante, who only comes out at night.  He is also a gadgeteer.  All his gadgets are themed like traditional Halloween items.  His sidekick DNPC, Killer Clown Kid, likewise only appears at night.

 

But each of the two heroes is, beneath the mask, the same person!  And each sidekick is likewise the same fellow as the other!

 

Now, it would never do to see Sunbeam using Spooky Man's gadgets, and vice-versa.  Spooky Man would not be well-received by Sunbeam's Contacts, and Sunbeam would never slum it with Spooky Man's.  Finally, Sunbeam wouldn't bother rescuing Killer Clown Kid, and the reverse is equally true.  So never the twain shall meet, and they would never avail themselves of the wrong set of Powers, most Perks, and themed gear.  They're two separate duos, as far as the world at large knows.

 

 

How do you build it?

[pinecone]

Two simple ways are 1) Multi-form,2) Gadget pools, so the "Theme" is a build choice, not a rules function. I strongly lean to #2....

[Marcus Impudite]

If the character is going to be active during both daytime and nighttime hours (in different IDs), Life Support that allows him to get by on less or no sleep would be a good point investment. The Multiform approach previously suggested could work; though one of the two forms has to pay the cost, thus having fewer points for other things. I have to agree that The VPP approach might work out significantly better on the whole.

[ghost-angel]

One way is the VPP with two different overall SFX as noted, and the Contacts (and other Perks) all Limited By Identity as needed.

 

If you truly need two different people, Multiform is the easier way to definitively split the two apart.

[Hyper-Man]

Also, several skills would be useful in protecting their triple identities:

 

Disguise, Acting, At least 10 points in two different styles of Martial Arts. etc...

 

HM

[Surrealone]

• VPP gadget pool with day/night SFX
• Instant change for day/night costumes
• Life Support to eliminate the need to sleep
• Psychological complication - schizophrenia with personality shift triggered by the day/night cycle
• DNPC that also rotates with the day/night cycle (each personality effectively has its own DNPC)

 

In this build, truly 'never the two shall meet' since it is the same person with two personalities driven by the day/night cycle.  This means no need for disguise, acting, etc. since one personality is not trying to pretend it is another/different -- and instead there are two personalities that must be role-played distinctly, no matter how inconvenient it is for any one of them at any given time.

[Scott Anderson]

I did it as a Multiform, Only Changes in Lair (-1/2).  Each version of the DNPC sidekick is seperated as well, so only the "correct" one will show up.

 

Alternately, if the sidekick were more competent, it could be a different Follower per 'form.

 

Specifically, the Characteristics, Skills, Enrageds, and Psychological and Physical Lims are the same between forms.  

 

Inborn Talents and Powers would be the same, but he has none. Vulnerabilities, Susceptabilities, and Dependencies would probably be the same as well.

 

Perks and any equipment-based abilities and Characteristics are unique to each form.  

 

Social Limitations, Hunteds and Watcheds, DNPCs, Rivalries, and Reputations would be different.  If there was an Accidental Change, it could go either way.

[assault]

Multipower, with some slots "only in appropriate persona".

 

Some of the gadgets (Armour?) would have the same effect, but look different. These would be bought normally.

 

Perks and such might be restricted by identity, similarly to ones that are only available in Secret ID or Heroic ID.

 

Maybe a Psych limitation/complication about not mixing the two identities.

 

This is actually a very simple build that doesn't need to be over-complicated. Unfortunately, the more granular the system becomes, the more tempting it is to over-complicate.

[Armitage]

If the gadgets use the same base powers, you could use Variable Special Effect.  For example, Sunbeam's flash is a blinding beam of light while Spooky Man's Flash is a swarm of bats, but they're both one Flash with a +1/4 Advantage.

 

Back in the days of 5e, I had an idea for a hero called Martyr, except nobody ever called him that.  He had Flight, Force Field, and Energy Blast, all with Variable Special Effect, and Regeneration with the Resurrection Adder.  He would choose a special effect, create a hero identity based on that special effect, and be a hero for a while.  He would eventually die heroically and publicly, generating good PR for heroes through his sacrifice.  Eventually, he would come back from the dead, choose a new special effect, and start the process again.

[Mister E]

If the character has two of everything the 5-point doubling rule works.

 

The 5-point doubling rule demands that all extra weapons and gadgets must be identical to the original.

 

I take this to mean that they all must have the same build.

 

If the builds are identical I would allow each back-up to have its own distinct motif for the sake of maintaining two different alternate identities.

 

--

 

For Computers Followers Vehicles & Bases the 5-point doubling rule is even more flexible allowing any other build as long as the point totals are equal or less.

 

Automatons are probably the same.

[Christopher]

"Only in heroic/vilanous identity" was renamed "Only in Alternate Identitiy" in 6E, to acommodate such cases. Now it could be that the "normal" Form had resources, the super identity could never use.

Like Bruce Wayne having lots of Friends in high places that did not know he was also Batman.

 

Let me ask a counter question:

There are interpretations of the Hulk where Bruce Banner has the same pointvalue as the big "not so jolly" giant. Where he is not "puny banner".

Where Hulk uses brawn, Banner uses Brains (and selfbuild tech). That would mean two totally viable heroes, on one sheet too.

How would you build that?

 

There are several answers:

Multiform. Have two alternate Forms, with the "normal guy" being the weakest sheet that pays for the Multiform.

OIAID: A set of mutually exclusive "OIAID" Limitations on any power that makes sense.

Of course in either way you will end up using points for that verstatility. Having a variable complication halves the value (instead of adding them).

Having two Alternate Forms means the base sheet is that much weaker.

 

If the power sets are very similar (including most limitations), just the special effects are different you could also work with Variable Special Effects and Naked Limitation buyoffs (APG 1 I think).

 

Note that I would consider it a missuse of Multiform if the Character never uses his normal Sheet (the one that bought multiform). There must be some way the Charcter can be forced into his basic form.

[bigdamnhero]

My general thought process on builds like that is: does the character completely change form such that a significant chunk of its Characteristics, Skills, Complications, etc are different? Then probably Multiform. If it's just two different sets of powers but everything else stays the same, then probably a VPP with "groupings" of powers. For example, I recently built a character Elementia whose powers alternate between earth, water, air & fire every phase. So her VPP came with the Limitation "Slots Must Stay Grouped Together By Element." In this case I felt like that was only worth a -1/4, because the different element groupings had fairly similar attacks, just with different sfx; if the powersets are significantly different, then the limitation is worth more. This gets messy in HD because you can't put lists inside a VPP, so I usually start the power descriptions with the element, is "Fire Blast" or "Air Punch."

 

You can do the same thing with a Multipower of course, and that is in many ways cleaner. But I usually find the VPP route to be significantly cheaper.

 

Alternately if sfx really is the only thing that's changing, then maybe you can get away with Variable SFX?

[Scott Anderson]

My general thought process on builds like that is: does the character completely change form such that a significant chunk of its Characteristics, 

 

Alternately if sfx really is the only thing that's changing, then maybe you can get away with Variable SFX?

 

If I do it your way, it's a Multiform.  I agree, by the way.  Since the Perks and Powers are completely different and the two characters would never cross into the other's social circles, Multiform seems right.  

[Christopher R Taylor]

Duplication would allow the characters to just sleep and have a normal life while their duplicate is out doing his thing on the other shift.

[Christopher]

Duplication would allow the characters to just sleep and have a normal life while their duplicate is out doing his thing on the other shift.

I see some problems with that:

- Duplicaties are identical to the core by default. Even minor changes need a expensive Advantage.

- while unlikely, it would still be possible for both to interact

- it might not fit thematically at all. Duplicates exist independantly of one another. So killing/imprisioning one would not affect the other, while it should

 

 

Here's a build question for you.

 

Suppose there's a superhero named Sunbeam, and all his Powers are built with gadgets.  He has all sorts of sun-based powers, rides around in the Sunbeam-Mobile, and has friends in wholesome places.  He is only ever seen during the day.  His sidekick DNPC, the Popcorn Kid, naturally only comes out during the day as well.

 

Then there's Spooky Man, a Halloween themed vigilante, who only comes out at night.  He is also a gadgeteer.  All his gadgets are themed like traditional Halloween items.  His sidekick DNPC, Killer Clown Kid, likewise only appears at night.

 

But each of the two heroes is, beneath the mask, the same person!  And each sidekick is likewise the same fellow as the other!

 

Now, it would never do to see Sunbeam using Spooky Man's gadgets, and vice-versa.  Spooky Man would not be well-received by Sunbeam's Contacts, and Sunbeam would never slum it with Spooky Man's.  Finally, Sunbeam wouldn't bother rescuing Killer Clown Kid, and the reverse is equally true.  So never the twain shall meet, and they would never avail themselves of the wrong set of Powers, most Perks, and themed gear.  They're two separate duos, as far as the world at large knows.

 

 

How do you build it?

What is the game effect of this?

You provided us with a special effect for the build. As well as some indications of the possible game effects of it. But nothing concrete at all.

 

It could just be the special effect to change the value of a Secret Identity or Hunted Complication:

- It could be easier to guard it. If nobody knows both teams are the same, it is harder to establish a modus opearandus or likely target. If one goes for the Jakuza and the other for the Mafia in town, there is less chance of both working together against the common foe.

- it could also be harder. "Bruce Wayne Taken Hostage" is a thing and you just expanded it to "Bruce Wayne, Batman or Clownman being taken hostage". Being closely hunted by one foe might prevent switching of identities when the other is needed somewhere

- when sharing information between both identities, care must be taken to provide a narrative for this. See this Ertworld Entry, 3rd segment.

[MrKinister]

Variable Special Effects =)

[Wardsman]

Here's a build question for you.

 

Suppose there's a superhero named Sunbeam, and all his Powers are built with gadgets.  He has all sorts of sun-based powers, rides around in the Sunbeam-Mobile, and has friends in wholesome places.  He is only ever seen during the day.  His sidekick DNPC, the Popcorn Kid, naturally only comes out during the day as well.

 

Then there's Spooky Man, a Halloween themed vigilante, who only comes out at night.  He is also a gadgeteer.  All his gadgets are themed like traditional Halloween items.  His sidekick DNPC, Killer Clown Kid, likewise only appears at night.

 

But each of the two heroes is, beneath the mask, the same person!  And each sidekick is likewise the same fellow as the other!

 

Now, it would never do to see Sunbeam using Spooky Man's gadgets, and vice-versa.  Spooky Man would not be well-received by Sunbeam's Contacts, and Sunbeam would never slum it with Spooky Man's.  Finally, Sunbeam wouldn't bother rescuing Killer Clown Kid, and the reverse is equally true.  So never the twain shall meet, and they would never avail themselves of the wrong set of Powers, most Perks, and themed gear.  They're two separate duos, as far as the world at large knows.

 

 

How do you build it?

As others stated both characters need some life support to reduce sleep.

You could just this with some Psych Disadvantages something like split personalities.

Gadget pool that they must change back at base during the transition from day to night and back again.

Psych limitations that they don't remember the change over.

 

I don't see the need for multiform unless they have substantial differences in disads and physical abilities.

But it is an option. And it could replicate multiple personalities.

Though given their powers are thru gadgets it could be quite cheap