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Damage class


steph

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Pre 6e, stats often provided far more secondary stats and such than they cost.  In my experience, this is why players tend to buy them so very high.

 

An 18 DEX, for example, provides:

+3 OCV to all attacks

+3 DCV vs all attacks

+2 to all skill & DEX rolls

8/10ths of a SPD

Improves initiative to go first in all situations.

 

So one could spend 24 points on an 18 DEX, or 48 on the various levels and SPD needed to get what that 18 DEX gives you as figureds, and that's not even counting the initiative bonus.

 

In my experience the only thing that stopped players from doing this was either GM intervention, a lack of points, or the NCM doubling rule (once they hit 20 DEX).

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Pre 6e, stats often provided far more secondary stats and such than they cost. In my experience, this is why players tend to buy them so very high.

 

An 18 DEX, for example, provides:

+3 OCV to all attacks

+3 DCV vs all attacks

+2 to all skill & DEX rolls

8/10ths of a SPD

Improves initiative to go first in all situations.

 

So one could spend 24 points on an 18 DEX, or 48 on the various levels and SPD needed to get what that 18 DEX gives you as figureds, and that's not even counting the initiative bonus.

 

In my experience the only thing that stopped players from doing this was either GM intervention, a lack of points, or the NCM doubling rule (once they hit 20 DEX).

Or you could spend 30 points for 3 Overall skill levels and gain everything except the points toward Speed. You can get to 6 0CV or 6 DCV (not at the same time though and that is a weakness compared to raw Dex) and instead of +2 to your Dex skills, you have +3 to ALL skills including general skills and Knowledge skills, all Int skills, all interaction skills, breakout rolls, perception rolls and can be used to increase damage class in combat as well.

 

I'll take that!

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In a very skill intensive game, you might be right.   But sacking 3 CV, a SPD, the initiative, and having 4 less points to spend is a pretty big minus if there is pretty much any combat at all.   

 

A closer comparison of Stat Man vs Skill Man :

 

24 points : 18 DEX

8 points : 18 INT

8 points : 18 PRE

2 points : 3 SPD

42 points total.

 

vs

 

30 points : 3 General Skill Levels

10 points : 3 SPD

40 points total

 
 
Stat build is
 

Combat :

Is up 3 CV one way or another

Has much better initiative

Much better making or defending against presence attacks

Has 13- Perception when surprised. (this is better unless your GM allows you to walk around/sleep/eat etc with your general levels assigned to perception at all times)

Can't assign skill levels to increase damage, but we're talking about sacrificing 2 CV to get 1 DC... not a really major increase in damage.

 

Skills :

13- base in all stat based skills. General skills not bought based on a stat only at 11-.  This is marginally inferior to Skill Man's 14- in in everything.

Can do two or more things simultaneously at full value.  Sneak AND Perceive, Sneak and Pick Locks,   that kind of thing   I think it is very arguable if 14/11  or 13/12 is going to be always better than 13/13 in simultaneous skill situations.  And very very arguable if 14/11/11 is better than 13/13/13 in three skill situations... though these are going to be rare  Sneak, perceive, get attacked because they perceived you anyway would be one such.

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Or you could spend 30 points for 3 Overall skill levels and gain everything except the points toward Speed. You can get to 6 0CV or 6 DCV (not at the same time though and that is a weakness compared to raw Dex) and instead of +2 to your Dex skills, you have +3 to ALL skills including general skills and Knowledge skills, all Int skills, all interaction skills, breakout rolls, perception rolls and can be used to increase damage class in combat as well.

Outsider covered this well. I will stress only that you do not have +3 to ALL skills, you have +3 to ONE skill at a time. You cannot use that +3 to maintain your Climbing perch while picking a lock, be acrobatic stealthily, climb stealthily, etc.

 

On the skill front, you gain a significant advantage in breadth. You lose everywhere else, including complementary skills, and lose a lot in combat.

 

6e made the playing field much more level.

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In a skill-centric game, you dont need to boost your characteristics. There are other ways of getting there. In my last Fantasy Hero game, there was one character with a Dex of 18 and she was an agile, acrobatic type fighter. The party theif had a Dex of 15 and opted for Skill Levels instead of more Dex. The party mage had a Dex of 12 and also opted for Combat Skill levels to make up the difference.

OK, starting from the baseline that the Fighter has spent 16 points on DEX (I will suggest they all have a 3 SPD, at least, so +1 DEX costs 3 points - 1 less spent on SPD = 2), let's look at the others.

 

The Rogue spent 10 points on DEX, so he has 6 more points to spend. +1 level with agility skills costs 5, so he gets the same roll as the fighter, with 1 point left over, and can have his bonus in only one skill at a time. That's before considering the loss of combat effectiveness.

 

The Mage saved 12 points, so he could have 4 skill levels with spells if we generously permit these to be 3 point levels. So he can boost his OCV by 4 (much better than the fighter). Even if we are generous in our DCV rules (he can have added DCV for all purposes whenever he uses a spell), he can beat the fighter by 2 if he has no bonus to OCV and casts a spell. He can match the Fighter's OCV and DCV, or can enhance his damage. He loses a bit on initiative and DEX skills (but does he have any DEX skills anyway?), but I'd say he's around even with the Fighter.

 

But that assumes we think "all spells" is a sufficiently tight group for 3 point skill levels. 5 point skill levels means he gets 3 (and a point left over), which erodes his ability to compete with the fighter.

 

And the fighter has a 6 DCV even where spells cannot be cast. Give the Fighter a Magic Wand and he has a 6 OCV, but the wizard gets 4 with his Wizard Staff.

 

The skill levels provide a bit more in a few areas, and a lot less in many other areas. I maintain the view that the pricing was never right. I also note we have not suggested any character of average or below average DEX.

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