Star Wars using Hero...?

[ArchadeBW]

I'm thinking a Wookie bowcaster does 8d6 regular damage ...

[ArchadeBW]

Thinking about stormtroopers and survivability, as well as a quick playtest where the stormtroopers won, Im going to tone their Armor down to 3pd/5ed, and their e-11 blasters down to 2d6. I also built the stormtroopers on 50 pts with ocv 4 and a skill level in blasters, which was too much, so I'll take away their skill level.

 

I think a dashing rebel captain with a 2d6 blaster rifle and 6 combat levels will be able to do 3d6, or 11 body ... two shots and the stormtrooper will go down, one shot if it's the head or vitals, or if it's a great roll of 30 stun or more. And after the heroes down their first batch of stormtroopers, autofiring their e-11 blasters should mow them down ...

 

This way, stormtroopers are great against common foes, but heroes should be able to make quick work of them.

[Ninja-Bear]

In the Edge Of Empire rules, there's a Talent in the Smuggler/Scoundrel tree that lets you add your Cunning score to damage rolls. Obviously Han took that feat. Plus Chewie has that ridiculously overpowered crossbow thingie that normal humans can't use except when it's funny.

Well Bowcaster depends on game system. WEG has it as same damage as normal blaster and can only fire once per round.

[Ninja-Bear]

As for Stormtrooper armor. SW: Rebels has Rex stating that stormtrooper armor is junk.

[Cantriped]

I believe it. Stormtroopers live in an era where offensive technology has far outstripped defensive technology, and the stormtroopers are considered an expendable resource. Their armor is probably just hard plastic meant to stop them from being injured by stray debris and hostile plant-life.

I'd give Stormtrooper Armor 2 rPD/4 rED, and a built in radio and air-tank. Their Blasters would be 8d6 Blast (vs ED), Autofire (3), Charges (lots). Means they are quite likely to be Stunned, Knocked Out or seriously Injured by their own Blaster fire.

[massey]

Perhaps Stormtrooper armor is really just an environmental suit.  Sure, it's got the psychological benefit that it dehumanizes them (there have been studies showing that it's easier to disassociate yourself from your actions if you wear a mask), and it makes them more imposing to others.  But primarily it keeps them alive if they're boarding an enemy ship and suddenly there's a drop in pressure.  You can't prevent yourself from being boarded just by retreating to the center of the ship and exposing the rest of it to vacuum.

 

I don't think there's any personal armor in Star Wars that can survive a good blaster shot.  Not in the movies anyway.  Or perhaps it's like Star Trek phasers, where damage can be scaled up and down depending on how much power you want to use per shot.  Maybe a standard blaster can shoot 100 times at "kill unarmored dude" power level, but only 25 times at "kill armored dude" level.   Stormtrooper armor might be just good enough to require you to switch to the higher power setting.

 

I'd make it 4 PD/4 ED Armor, and you're slapping it on a dude who has like 3/3 PD/ED naturally.  Maybe a Stormtrooper has like 25 Stun.  We'll say a military blaster does 2D6+1 or 2 1/2D6.  On average you're doing 8 or 9 Body and 16-18 Stun.  That's enough to put Body on a guy with an average roll, and enough to daze him and make him lose his next action if you roll a little higher.

 

Cinematically, most of the hits we see onscreen are "kill" shots that drop a trooper to negative Body or Stun.  But there are other things that could be "hits" for game purposes that don't necessarily look that way onscreen.  A lot of near misses could just be crappy damage rolls.  Or a shot hits the wall next to a trooper and there's an explosion of sparks.  In game terms, the shot hit, but the guy took maybe one Body and like 4 Stun from it.  Gradually you could whittle down the Stormtroopers until you get the "hit" on the screen that finally kills them.

 

So an average combat could look something like this:

 

Stormtrooper (OCV 4, DCV 4, Dex 12, Spd 3, wearing Imperial armor 4 PD/4 ED) is exchanging fire with rebel soldier (OCV 5, DCV 5, Dex 14, Spd 3, with one level combat luck 3/3).  For our purposes, we'll assume the stormtrooper has bad dice luck and keeps missing the rebel soldier.

 

Phase 12, rebel soldier shoots Stormtrooper, misses.  Stormtrooper returns fire, misses.

Jak Bentar crouches down in the ship's corridor, his blaster aimed towards the doorway at the far end.  He knows the assault is coming.  He sees a white armored uniform begin to emerge around the corner.  He fires, his red blaster bolt flies down the hallway but misses its mark.  The stormtrooper jerks backwards, clearly caught off guard, and returns fire blindly.

 

Phase 4, rebel soldier shoots Stormtrooper, hits.  Rolls poorly on damage, 5 Body and 10 Stun.  Stormtrooper fires and misses.  Stormtrooper takes 1 Body and 3 Stun (now at 9 Body, 22 Stun).

Jak takes aim and fires again.    His shot narrowly misses the trooper, the blast disappearing down the corridor.  A red beam of energy flies harmlessly over his own head as the trooper shoots back.

 

Phase 8, rebel soldier shoots Stormtrooper, hits.  Rolls 8 Body, 16 Stun.  Stormtrooper misses again and curses his dice.  Stormtrooper takes 4 Body and 9 Stun (now at 5 Body, 13 Stun).

Another shot from Jak, and his blaster bolt slams into the wall near the stormtrooper, a shower of sparks marks the impact point.  The trooper's shots go wide of their mark and Jak thanks the Force for his luck.

 

Phase 12, rebel soldier shoots Stormtrooper, hits.  Rolls 10 Body, 20 Stun.  Stormtrooper takes 6 Body and 13 Stun (is now at -1 Body and 0 Stun).  Stormtrooper is out of the fight.

Through the smoke, Jak sees the trooper beginning to advance again around the corner of the door.  He takes careful aim and lets loose a lethal shot.  The red blast hits home, striking the stormtrooper in the chest.  A burst of light causes Jak to blink, and then he sees a black scorch mark on the trooper's armor where the shot punched through.  The stormtrooper flails his arms in the air and topples backwards, his gun clattering to the floor.  Jak breathes a sigh of relief.

 

 

That sounds like a Star Wars combat to me.  Small amounts of damage are described cinematically, not every in game hit has to be an onscreen hit.  Not every lethal shot in the film has to take a character from full health to unconsciousness in one damage roll.  Many of the characters we see onscreen are basically "down some hit points", even if we haven't seen them get shot yet.

[Ninja-Bear]

Mind you this doesn't preclude elite units like the 501st though.

[Christopher R Taylor]

I like the idea of Stormtrooper armor more an environmental suit than battle armor.  A little bit of protection against shrapnel or sharp edges, but not much. 1-2 resistant defenses each and life support, radio, etc.  Maybe a level of Striking Appearance for the reputation and appearance.

[Cantriped]

I cannot disagree more with the concept that a character can take BODY and STUN from an attack which was described to have missed. BODY loss represents proximity to death, and STUN loss represents proximity to unconsiousness. Therefore an Attack which does BODY needs to be described in a way that expresses that the character is closer to death, but not dead yet. Likewise an Attack which does STUN needs to be described in a way that expresses that the character is closer to being knocked out, but still conscious.

 

There is a similar trope in cartoons regarding injury and death. They usually cannot show their character's being mangled, nor do they want to strain believability by showing a character with broken limbs fighting unhindered the next day. So instead characters frequently suffer a glancing blows, bruises, and minor burns of lacerations (nicking the character's cheek is especially common). Only when the character has suffered enough minor injuries to bring them to negative BODY is the enemy able to deliver a mortal injury. At which point they are usually shown to be mangled or impaled by an attack they would have "almost" dodged earlier in the fight (but are now too exhausted to).

 

When I am describing Pathfinder's more abstract Hit Point system to new players, I usually describe them as being "a measure of your character's ability to turn major injuries into minor ones which is depleted at a rate dependent upon how lethal the attack would have been to a normal human being". That that concept doesn't work quite as well using Hero's more granular system of damage.

[Chris Goodwin]

It's really hard to figure out exactly what kind of damage blasters do from watching the source material.  We see a lot of instances where people, armored or not, take blaster hits and go down, but very few instances of someone taking a blaster hit and following them through the aftermath.  Like, we seldom see stormtroopers or Rebel troops being hit, someone yelling "Medic!" and dragging them behind cover, getting taken on a stretcher to an aid station or medical droid; Rogue One is probably the closest we get to any of that, and that came out less than a month and a half ago.  

 

I'd recommend, if you're going to run a Star Wars game, using the old campaign design sheets from 4th edition or the 5th edition GM resource kit, the ones that ask you to choose where your game falls on a 1-5 scale for things like tone, realism, morality, and deadliness.  Once you've done that, then you can figure out how powerful blasters are and how powerful stormtrooper armor is, for your game.  

[massey]

I cannot disagree more with the concept that a character can take BODY and STUN from an attack which was described to have missed. BODY loss represents proximity to death, and STUN loss represents proximity to unconsiousness. Therefore an Attack which does BODY needs to be described in a way that expresses that the character is closer to death, but not dead yet. Likewise an Attack which does STUN needs to be described in a way that expresses that the character is closer to being knocked out, but still conscious.

 

There is a similar trope in cartoons regarding injury and death. They usually cannot show their character's being mangled, nor do they want to strain believability by showing a character with broken limbs fighting unhindered the next day. So instead characters frequently suffer a glancing blows, bruises, and minor burns of lacerations (nicking the character's cheek is especially common). Only when the character has suffered enough minor injuries to bring them to negative BODY is the enemy able to deliver a mortal injury. At which point they are usually shown to be mangled or impaled by an attack they would have "almost" dodged earlier in the fight (but are now too exhausted to).

 

When I am describing Pathfinder's more abstract Hit Point system to new players, I usually describe them as being "a measure of your character's ability to turn major injuries into minor ones which is depleted at a rate dependent upon how lethal the attack would have been to a normal human being". That that concept doesn't work quite as well using Hero's more granular system of damage.

One of the Hero System's key components is the ability to define the special effects of a power. Describing what the power looked like is free. That can include what the damage a power inflicts looks like.

 

I see no problem in describing attacks that do minor damage as being a "near miss". Body and Stun do not have a set effect. 1 Body does not equal a bruise, 3 Body does not equal a broken bone. They're basically just different types of hit points.

 

The suspension of disbelief can be broken when some mega-attack hits a character and you roll 1 point of damage. At that point it's the job of a good GM to describe the attack in a way to make it more believable. So you get grazes and near-misses. The attack impacts near your feet and you can feel the heat of the blast through your armor.

[Netzilla]

Eh, I have to agree with Cantriped on the hit/miss tangent.  One of the things I always liked about the Hero System was the clear distinction between the to hit and damage mechanics.  When Combat Luck was introduced, I didn't care for how it muddied those waters.  There are times (such as Damage Shield) where the clear delineation is important.  As far as rolling low on a "mega-attack", that'd be a glancing hit where contact was just barely made so the full force of the attack was not transmitted to the target.

[massey]

Eh, I have to agree with Cantriped on the hit/miss tangent. One of the things I always liked about the Hero System was the clear distinction between the to hit and damage mechanics. When Combat Luck was introduced, I didn't care for how it muddied those waters. There are times (such as Damage Shield) where the clear delineation is important. As far as rolling low on a "mega-attack", that'd be a glancing hit where contact was just barely made so the full force of the attack was not transmitted to the target.

The Champ from the 4th edition book with the aliens in it (I forget which one) has Missile Deflection with the special effect of "bounced off his chest". You also have examples of a "chin block" where you block an attack by letting someone slug you in the face. Both of these are examples of a "hit" not really being a hit. Shields are often built as a bonus to DCV. So we have several published examples where the clear distinction between hitting and not hitting is not so clear.

[Netzilla]

The Champ from the 4th edition book with the aliens in it (I forget which one) has Missile Deflection with the special effect of "bounced off his chest". You also have examples of a "chin block" where you block an attack by letting someone slug you in the face. Both of these are examples of a "hit" not really being a hit. Shields are often built as a bonus to DCV. So we have several published examples where the clear distinction between hitting and not hitting is not so clear.

 

Sure, I realize the purity of that distinction went out the window a while ago.  However, I still prefer keeping the distinction as clear as possible rather than muddying the waters further.

[ArchadeBW]

As for Stormtrooper armor. SW: Rebels has Rex stating that stormtrooper armor is junk.

Absolutely! I saw that and decided if stormtrooper armor is 3pd/5ed, then clone armor is 4pd/6ed ...

[Ninja-Bear]

I would think that blasters would be RKA with maybe increased stun multiple and also keep in mind that it is energy and almost everyone has a low ED. WEG when you are wounded are KO'ed for a few minutes.

[ArchadeBW]

So ... next question ... how would you handle deflecting and redirecting blaster fire with a lightsaber?

 

I've tried building a deflection power, and it's not bad (but a little complicated as the Block makeover it's based on isn't meant to Deflect 10+ Blaster shots a round, unless the Jedi has 10-15 combat skill levels), and I'm stumped on how to handle redirecting blaster bolts, as Reflection is even more unwieldy than Deflection.

 

Any ideas?

[Ninja-Bear]

So ... next question ... how would you handle deflecting and redirecting blaster fire with a lightsaber?

 

I've tried building a deflection power, and it's not bad (but a little complicated as the Block makeover it's based on isn't meant to Deflect 10+ Blaster shots a round, unless the Jedi has 10-15 combat skill levels), and I'm stumped on how to handle redirecting blaster bolts, as Reflection is even more unwieldy than Deflection.

 

Any ideas?

I don't see Jedis usually deflecting that many shots in a scene. And they reflect even less.

[Christopher R Taylor]

I would say its just a factor of DCV added with the lightsaber, and the reflection a specific exact power they can activate on their phase.  You could even assign the light saber Combat Luck so that it tends to prevent at least some damage taken when the jedi is aware of it.  And with all that danger sense and such, they're usually aware.

[mallet]

Yeah, stormtrooper armor should have 0 rED to match the films, but some rPD as it did seem to offer some protection vs the Ewoks primitive weapons.

 

Or just give Stormtroopers very low BOD scores (maybe because they are clones) so the armor does protect them, but it only takes 4-5 BOD damage to kill them.

 

Or maybe they just have very low STUN so they pretty much fall unconscious after one hit. We don't know for sure that every Stormtrooper shot dies, just that they fall down out of the fight. Maybe most of them get back up a few minutes later?

[Cantriped]

My wife says "Or maybe they just aren't getting back up because they know what's good for them"...

Which explains why there are always more stormtroopers to fight next time. Otherwise you'd think they'd run out eventually.

[Ninja-Bear]

I was going to suggest that armor only.provides 2 ED damage resistance. Plus watch how many.times the heroes pose before firing. It could be interpreted as a.called shot for more damage.

[mallet]

Maybe build them all with the complication: Vulnerability to Laser Fire x2 STUN

[Tasha]

Yeah, stormtrooper armor should have 0 rED to match the films, but some rPD as it did seem to offer some protection vs the Ewoks primitive weapons.

 

Or just give Stormtroopers very low BOD scores (maybe because they are clones) so the armor does protect them, but it only takes 4-5 BOD damage to kill them.

 

Or maybe they just have very low STUN so they pretty much fall unconscious after one hit. We don't know for sure that every Stormtrooper shot dies, just that they fall down out of the fight. Maybe most of them get back up a few minutes later?

By the time of ep IV the Clonetroopers were all dead or really really old. So Stormtroopers are actually recruited humans.

 

Stormtrooper Armor is probably around 7PD and ED. It doesn't really make logical sense to have armor that doesn't protect the wearer. It's pretty clear from the games and Books that Trooper armor is protective. 

 

Blaster Pistols being 3d6 RKA (given the damage that Han did to poor Greedo), or 9d6 in "Stun mode" 

Blaster Rifles are probably 3 1/2 D6 RKA up to 4d6 RKA. They are all pretty darned deadly.

 

PCs should probably have extra DCV as "combat Luck" and/or a level or two of Regular Combat luck 3rPD/rED. YMMV

 

I tend to err on the side of making a fun game that makes logical sense, instead of slavishly trying to emulate what you see on the screen. 

 

Info on Stormtroopers

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Stormtrooper

 

PS I would also recommend checking other versions of the Star Wars RPG to see how they build Stormtrooper armor. Those were build under licence by Lucas  and were placed under quite a bit of scrutiny before release

[Christopher R Taylor]

I like the "decent PD and low ED approach" so that the storm trooper suits aren't meant for protection so much as environmental suits and incidental attacks like blades.  That way they behave like the films (because, let's be honest, that's what people want to play in) but make some sense.