g3taso Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 I thought this seemed a cooler idea than a Vader-style telekinetic blaster grab. I was thinking this is a nice surprise for an enemy! Am I correct in 5e (mebbe 6th also) that I just make an attack roll vs DCV3 to successfully take that weapon, brooch, paperback or tray of nachos away from my designated target? Does this apply to Foci as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eepjr24 Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 It really helps if you provide page references that you are using so other people can reference them. I thought this seemed a cooler idea than a Vader-style telekinetic blaster grab. I was thinking this is a nice surprise for an enemy! Am I correct in 5e (mebbe 6th also) that I just make an attack roll vs DCV3 to successfully take that weapon, brooch, paperback or tray of nachos away from my designated target? Does this apply to Foci as well? No. 5e, 235 says that you can use it UAA to disarm people, but you will suffer penalties for the small size of the object. So not only are you hitting their DCV, you are hitting it at a penalty. - E Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 Whenever the UAA Advantage is applied to a Power a reasonable defense needs to be defined as if the NND Advantage were being applied. HM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g3taso Posted June 21, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 I should have put up page locations. My bad! Does this address the DCV concerns? Vader-Style Disarm: Teleportation 1", MegaScale (1" = 1 km; +1/4), Area Of Effect (One Hex; +1/2), Usable As Attack (+1) (5 Active Points); OIF (; -1/2) The thought of teleporting away someone's stuff like weapons is one thing, but snatching everything but their Underoos (for modesty's sake) is awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 Yeah its a neat idea, but if you buy the teleportation hex effect, you're teleporting the entire hex and its contents, not something within it. You could buy it with the cheesy "accurate" advantage, but as a GM I'd tell you to go back to the drawing board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eepjr24 Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 I'd let that go with a few caveats. First, if you put accurate on it I would let you target a single person or object at DCV 3. Second, if that OIF is not YOUR focus, forget it. You cannot take a focus limitation on something that is not a focus for the power, you are getting a point discount for something that is not limiting. You could put something like "Inanimate targets only" (-1/2). You would suffer normal OCV penalties starting with a base DCV 3, so most swords or the like would be -6 OCV for size. So if you hit the 9 DCV for a person in the next hex (you realize you need Ranged to hit someone further away, right?) you can teleport away that sword. A light saber on the other hand is probably more like -8 DCV. And if you did not specify a special affect to block it per HyperMan's post, I would just rule anyone with latent or active force powers is immune. All that said, most likely you would have to buy more teleport. My typical guideline for balance in lower level heroic is 2", for supers is 8". See 5e pg 94 for more information. - E Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 you realize you need Ranged to hit someone further away, right? Right. Teleport is inherently ranged and indirect, but its effect is, not your targeting. Without range you have to be adjacent to the person you use the power on, then you can teleport the item up to the full range of the teleport. Given how cheap it is, I'd say get at least 7m, so you can put it out of easy reach or a half move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g3taso Posted June 21, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 I appreciate the feedback from you both. So let me refocus and ask this. Using Teleport (or something not Telekinesis), how would you choose to to specifically teleport an object away from someone (nearby) that doesn't happen to be something worn (like armor). That object may or may not be a focus. Also, the object may or may not be in their hand, but may just be on their person. I took no range because I'm assuming they are in an adjacent hex. Examples might be stealing the blaster in your holster, the ring on your hand or the wallet I can see hanging out of your pocket. (Aka I need to know precisely where the item is, or see it). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eepjr24 Posted June 22, 2016 Report Share Posted June 22, 2016 I wouldn't? You want to teleport something, you buy teleport. You want to disarm someone at range, you use telekinesis. I don't get your obsession with accomplishing something but excluding the power that was designed to accomplish it. Maybe it would be better if you told us why not Telekinesis? - E Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amorkca Posted June 22, 2016 Report Share Posted June 22, 2016 If something is built as a focus (OIF IIF) doesn't that make it immune to either form of grabbing it away? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eepjr24 Posted June 22, 2016 Report Share Posted June 22, 2016 If something is built as a focus (OIF IIF) doesn't that make it immune to either form of grabbing it away? Depends on how you read and which version you are in. I have always read it that they cannot be affected by grab, disarm or the like if they are inaccessible. If someone builds a power specifically to affect foci on the other hand, there is nearly nothing absolute in Hero. - E Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manic Typist Posted June 22, 2016 Report Share Posted June 22, 2016 Well, you could always just use Disarm/Grab with a SFX of teleportation... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted June 22, 2016 Report Share Posted June 22, 2016 If something is built as a focus (OIF IIF) doesn't that make it immune to either form of grabbing it away? I would probably rule that in most cases but like eepjr24 says the definition and special effect would be key. If its OIF because its difficult to take away or they can always pick up another one, then the teleport works fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g3taso Posted June 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2016 I wouldn't? You want to teleport something, you buy teleport. You want to disarm someone at range, you use telekinesis. I don't get your obsession with accomplishing something but excluding the power that was designed to accomplish it. Maybe it would be better if you told us why not Telekinesis? - E Well, a telekinetic snatch would be nice too. However, what if I don't want it? Better to kick it somewhere FAR away. I don't have anything against telekinesis, I would just prefer whatever I disarm/snatch to be completely out of the picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted June 22, 2016 Report Share Posted June 22, 2016 Whenever you construct an ability in HERO you need to clearly define two things. 1. What the ability does. 2. What is the defense to what it does. Here is an example of Teleportation UAA designed for disarming opponents from The Ultimate Speedster page 75: 2) I’ll Take Those! Variant:This form of I’ll Take Those! uses Teleportation, rather than telekinetic strength, to snatch weapons out of enemies’ hands. The character can target any object within 8” of him and “teleport” it to his hand. Change to Teleportation 8”, Area Of Effect (8” Radius; +1½), Selective (+¼), Usable As Attack (defense is having Desolidification, Teleportation, dimensional manipulation, or speedster powers; +1) (60 Active Points); Only To Disarm/Grab Objects (-1). Total cost: 30 points. Depending on the speedster in question I might add an additional AOE 1 Hex Accurate Advantage on top of the existing AOE Selective (perfectly legal in 5e) to define the DCV of the individual Selective targets (DCV 3 plus possible targeting penalties) based on the special effect. I would also probably add further limits regarding the target being reachable via the character's mode of movement (example: a running speedster shouldn't be able to disarm a flying target with this). It also doesn't make sense to allow a character like Flash or Quicksilver to disarm a superstrong character (imagine Thor's hammer WITHOUT the 'only the worthy..." enchantment) if they couldn't do it with a normal/Martial Disarm Maneuver. If the special effect of the Teleport UAA ability is something other than superspeed then a new set of advantages and limitations would need to be defined to make the mechanics match up with it. HM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasha Posted June 22, 2016 Report Share Posted June 22, 2016 It really helps if you provide page references that you are using so other people can reference them. No. 5e, 235 says that you can use it UAA to disarm people, but you will suffer penalties for the small size of the object. So not only are you hitting their DCV, you are hitting it at a penalty. - E Just apply the Disarm maneuver modifiers + range modifiers. That's enough penalty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAgdesh Posted June 22, 2016 Report Share Posted June 22, 2016 This thread may help you. http://www.herogames.com/forums/topic/92998-summoning-items/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted June 22, 2016 Report Share Posted June 22, 2016 Well, a telekinetic snatch would be nice too. However, what if I don't want it? Better to kick it somewhere FAR away. I don't have anything against telekinesis, I would just prefer whatever I disarm/snatch to be completely out of the picture. So, what you really want is a Destroy Object Power? Lucius Alexander The palindromedary really wants to target me with a Teleport Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g3taso Posted June 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2016 So, what you really want is a Destroy Object Power? Lucius Alexander The palindromedary really wants to target me with a Teleport Not at all. I'm saying that I could use Telekinesis to snatch their weapon, possibly even putting it right in my hand. Disintegrating it would be acceptable, and so would just teleporting it in a random direction so it no longer influences combat. Teleportation was selected primarily because it works mechanically and SFX wise so to me it's the obvious starting point. Now we're just settling some details. I have a strict antiteleportation via palindromedary policy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surrealone Posted June 22, 2016 Report Share Posted June 22, 2016 Not at all. I'm saying that I could use Telekinesis to snatch their weapon, possibly even putting it right in my hand. Disintegrating it would be acceptable, and so would just teleporting it in a random direction so it no longer influences combat. Teleportation was selected primarily because it works mechanically and SFX wise so to me it's the obvious starting point. Now we're just settling some details. I believe most people would 'throw' the object after a 'grab' with TK -- using teleportation as the SFX for both. You probably don't like having to use two distinct actions for this (hence a preference for teleportation), but mechanically ... unless you've got a very good justification on which your GM signs off .... it should probably be two distinct actions for balance reasons -- the first of which entails taking the object ... and the second of which entails its disposal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g3taso Posted June 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2016 To be sure, I am not in favor of having to spend 2 actions (read 2 phases) to get rid of some sort of object when I can use Disarm instead as a single action. If a combat maneuver does it on one, I don't want to have to use a power (twice) for the same result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasha Posted June 22, 2016 Report Share Posted June 22, 2016 I appreciate the feedback from you both. So let me refocus and ask this. Using Teleport (or something not Telekinesis), how would you choose to to specifically teleport an object away from someone (nearby) that doesn't happen to be something worn (like armor). That object may or may not be a focus. Also, the object may or may not be in their hand, but may just be on their person. I took no range because I'm assuming they are in an adjacent hex. Examples might be stealing the blaster in your holster, the ring on your hand or the wallet I can see hanging out of your pocket. (Aka I need to know precisely where the item is, or see it). Can't strictly disarm Inaccessable items like Armor. A Pistol in a holster isn't inaccessable, just accessable in a different spot so stealing that is easy. What you do with the Accessable foci after stealing it is up to you. The PC can toss it as far as their strength will allow etc. Strictly speaking RAW you don't steal the Inaccessable Ring on the finger, or TP Defender out of his armor. They Spent points to make that not be possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted June 22, 2016 Report Share Posted June 22, 2016 Yeah its a neat idea, but if you buy the teleportation hex effect, you're teleporting the entire hex and its contents, not something within it. You could buy it with the cheesy "accurate" advantage, but as a GM I'd tell you to go back to the drawing board. At least in 5thr if you target a limb with accurate then you DCV modifiers of limb to the base DCV 3 of AoE. Although you might still consider this cheesy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eepjr24 Posted June 22, 2016 Report Share Posted June 22, 2016 Strictly speaking RAW you don't steal the Inaccessable Ring on the finger, or TP Defender out of his armor. They Spent points to make that not be possible. Did they, though? Not saying you can steal it, but they actually just saved less points than if they bought it IAF or OAF. They saved points versus not making it a focus at all., - E Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g3taso Posted June 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2016 This is wonderful feedback, just what I was hoping for. Based on that, I'll Take Those: Teleportation 2", Area Of Effect (One Hex; +1/2), Usable As Attack (+1) (10 Active Points); Limited Power Solid Non-Living Items Only (-1) As I understand it using this attack I use Grab/Disarm rules (and their variants) to attempt to take (or at least remove) any items I may wish. If I am correct in my understanding, let me know. If I got it wrong, how would you amend it so it works correctly. I understand the teleport is actually the special effect in this case, since the mechanic is actually grab/disarm. Although it wasn't my intent, I am curious as to how this power might be amended to grab everything in that square that was non-living and rigid. I put that Limit on there just to remove the possibility of hurting someone, but the notion of removing their change from their pockets along with the gun hidden in their ankle holster, their two knives and their cell phone with the target none the wiser is a happy one also If you got a writeup for that, throw it up for completeness if anything else, and any notes about how it operates in the rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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