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Trying to design a specialized martial art Parkour


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I am looking for some input on designing a movement based martial art. The martial art I have in mind is Patkour.

Below is most of the ideas I have for the MA. But I know that some limited powers might be necessary. Such as limited clinging, climbing, swinging, jumping, landing, movement, and avoiding contact. But this is a real martial art, that exists. So I want to keep it in the realm of possibilities. I came up with a few ways to do this, but the mechanics are a bit off. I originally went as a skill until it was pointed out that it's more of a martial art. Please see below for what I came up with. If you have any changes or improvements please let me know.

 

This is an Agility Martial Art which is used during movement to get from one point to another in a complex environment, without assistive equipment and in the fastest and most efficient way possible. Parkour is a hybrid movement between Acrobatics and Running. It requires the character to be constantly moving in order to gain the benefits it grants. It includes running, climbing, swinging, vaulting, jumping, rolling, quadrupedal movement, running short distances on vertical surfaces, and other movements as deemed most suitable for the situation. Parkour involves seeing one's environment in a new way, and imagining the potential for navigating it by movement around, across, though, over, and under its features.

 

Parkour is a training discipline using movement that developed from military obstacle course training. Practitioners aim Parkour's development from military training gives it some aspects of a non-combative martial art. It may be taken as part of a Martial Arts skill.

 

Parkour is exciting to watch, but doesn’t just impress bystanders, its useful in both combat and non-combat situations. Where Acrobatics provides benefit to Offence, Parkour provides benefit to Defensive and Non-Combat moves. The skill check is made applying all modifiers for terrain and difficulty. Success means the character can move without hindrance across solid surfaces filled with obstacles, and without any real danger or impediment to movement. Some additional DEX rolls may be required for extremely hazardous terrain, terrain that requires balance, or requires Special Movement to navigate.

 

When you make a Parkour check you receive two bonuses for a successful check. The first Bonus is generated to provide the DCV and DEX Movement bonuses.

The second Bonus is a strait bonus equal to the amount the check is made by. This bonus is applied for direct movement modifiers, direction changes, pivoting, and bouncing, during Parkour movement. It also lets you know the number of Special Movement points the character is allowed.

 

A. DCV/DEX Movement Bonus: Provide a +1 to DCV and DEX Movement (Similar to Surprise Move, 6E2 51, except for DCV/DEX) for every 2 full points of success. Max +3 to DCV/DEX. Typically, this is a Zero Phase Action, or has an Action that takes no time. The DEX bonus only applies towards movement and cannot be applied towards any other skill check or power.

 

B. Parkour Movement (Zero Phase Action, or has an Action that takes no time; benefit is applied to character movement): So long as there is a solid surface for the character to move on they may move their full running movement with a successful skill roll. Movement can be made by the most direct path. Ignoring, for the most part, all obstacles or terrain difficulties. Meaning they can run on walls or across obstacles without losing momentum, or movement points. However, Parkour Movement must end on solid normal ground or risk other effects.

Though this skill does not impart balance or sure footedness, because of the constant movement of the character, they will, in the short term, counter most DEX negatives equal to the bonus to DEX Movement they receive.

 

Parkour most directly benefits the character’s ability to move freely across solid surfaces, around obstacles, up walls, pivot direction, etc.… without slowing down or incurring massive penalties. Normal Parkour movement is considered through an open space with obstacles that must be moved around, across, though, over, and under. All other obstacle or special circumstance movement requires the character to use their Special Movement (SM) Points. The character gains 1 Special Movement point equal to the amount he made his Parkour Skill check by. So if he made it by +3 then he may have 3 Special Movement Points.

A Special Move is any of the following, and must end on a safe flat horizontal surface (might require additional DEX roll). Each Special Movement cost SM 1 point to accomplish:

• Characters can run equal to half their normal running movement strait up a vertical surface or 2/3 their running movement horizontally across a vertical surface. If running horizontally across a vertical surface, the height of their run cannot exceed their leap height distance.

• Bounce/spring off vertical surfaces, and/or shift direction off a pivot point, at a rate of one change of direction per SM point.

• Swing or vault short distances equal to half normal movement (requires a pivot point or tool such as rope or a pole; may require additional DEX check).

• Dive or drop through small openings

• Any special circumstance movement that might apply but not covered. Might require a DEX check. Will cost 1 SM point.

 

Exception: movement through water, mud, entanglements, or other such non-solid surface movement do not benefit from Parkour and may not be countered by Special Movements.

 

A DEX roll might be required to move across extremely hazardous or sparse surfaces, such as running across a river by jumping on exposed stones, along a thin beam, or even moving through the tree tops (Tarzan was great at Parkour).

No DEX roll is required if the Parkour Bonus is Equal to the DEX Penalty. If the DEX penalty is greater than the Parkour DEX Bonus, then make a DEX check at the difference penalty.

If passed, then the Parkour movement is applied as normal. If it fails then apply the failure to the DEX check immediately, then apply the failure difference to the Parkour Movement bonus. If it exceeds the Parkour Movement Bonus, then it cancels out all effects of the Parkour Movement. If, however, after applying the penalty to the Parkour Movement, it still succeeds, then adjust the Parkour bonus amount by the difference and apply the remaining movement bonus to the move. The character does however lose 3m of movement per DEX failure amount. So a DEX Movement failure of 2 would reduce the Parkour Bonus by -2, as well as the total move by -6m, even if all other rolls succeeded.

 

Any help making this a viable MA would be appreciated

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What you have described above does not sound much like a Martial Art as defined by Hero Systems. It sounds more like a package deal of skill levels, combat skill levels, environmental movement and powers with limitations like Requires a Roll. Combined with Complimentary skill rolls it could get pretty close to what you have described above. For direction, you might look to 6e MA for the following: Kip-up, Wu Shu Training, and Supreme Balance. I would also consider adding some limited forms of Clinging with RSR and "Only while Running", some leaping, increased running, increased perception rolls and possibly some overall skill levels.

 

- E

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​Personally, for this to be a martial art I think you need to combine the movement aspects of parkour with offensive and defensive maneuvers that utilize the movement to do damage and/or avoid it.  i.e. A movement-based art is not inherently martial until you dish or avoid damage with it.

 

Think monkey style kung fu -- a martial art which marries ape-like movement to strikes and strike avoidance.  Now take the strikes and strike avoidance out of it and all you have is ape-like movement ... and something that's also no longer a martial art form.  i.e. You need to marry parkour movement to strikes and strike avoidance to actually have a martial art.  A DCV/DEX-enhancing maneuver ... and the ability to easily navigate obstacles while moving across solid surfaces ... simply don't make a martial art by themselves.

 

Now if one maneuver entailed running up a wall, flipping 2m behind the person following you, and striking them from behind while landing (to use gravity to enhance your damage via momentum ... while also potentially invoking surprise) ... that'd potentially be a maneuver in a parkour-based martial art form.  You'd need a collection of very specific maneuvers to flesh out the various 'forms' of the art... some offensive and some defensive.  Most martial art forms entail offensive strikes, defensive strikes, kicks, blocks, and dodges; those are the raw essence/basis of all real martial art forms that come to mind...

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I agree with others in that this sounds more like a skill/ability package rather than a martial art.

 

The movement bonuses you describe are a combination of Acrobatics and Environmental Movement, both of which allow characters to move through/around/over obstacles with no penalties.

 

The CV bonuses would be CV with Limitations like Requires a 1/2 Move and Requires an Acrobatics Roll.  As I recall, there's a modifier for Requires A Roll that makes the power proportional to the roll, but I can't recall if it's in the core books or in one of the APGs (I don't have my books handy).

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One of the hardest parts of building characters in Hero is learning how to build abilities. You go to lengths to create a new mechanic that is already handled pretty well in the rules. You could make a "superskill" or a power that acts like a power (kind of how Talents work).

Define what you want your character to do in plain english. Make sure that it all ties together into a theme.
Take that definations and work out what abilities the PC should have to fulfill that vision (We call this a Character Concept)
Take that list of abilities that are still a description and find the power(s) that mechanically do that thing. Try for simplicity.
Repeat until you have the PC's abilities built.
Balance against your point budget
Play the PC.

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As for martial arts only being for fighting, then you probably don't consider Yoga a martial art, even though it is. Parkour is designated as a Martial Art because it fulfills the basic concept that martial arts emulate. It uses forms of movement and does so athletically. There are several martial arts that do not fit the combat oriented only styles. Many are done for fitness reasons, regardless of other applications of the art. Thi Chi in its full aggressive form is very much a combat martial art. But in its Kata form its almost strictly for physical fitness. What I am looking to do is put together a group of skills and minor power applications that as closely represent the actual ability as possible. Something that can be bought as a package. 

 

I did post this query in the wrong area and got some good idea's. But other than the numerous "that's Acrobatics" that was posted by the responder, the one thing that stood out was the suggestion that this might be better served designed as a martial art. The fact that it is actually categorized that way in the real world, never occurred to me to design it that way at the time. So I reposted here for some other input. 

 

Basicly I am having problems coming up with some of the aspects of how to do it, because nearly all martial arts in Hero's is aggressive and has mostly aggressive aspects. The few that don't are the various moves or styles that border on the edge of fantasy, such as Gecko Crawling, which is a limited Spider Man power. But I will probably use something close to this to design the final ability. These are each moves and abilities one can buy within a style. This is what I am looking to build. If you want to have a style that you can use to attack with fine. This would be more of a martial arts skill than a style, if you like.

 

Though everyone has some great ideas, I guess my issue is I'm not that good at designing package group of abilities and powers. So I do what everyone should do who isn't very good at something. Talk to those that probably are. 

 

I can figure the movement and even some of the acrobatics but coming up with limited leaping, clinging, swinging, even spacial awareness for understanding the environment, is giving me the problems. Too over powered and it might as well be a super power. Too under powered and I might as well just use skills. I thought about just taking Acrobatics and applying modified movements to that skill that can be bought, but Acrobatics says right in its description that it provides bonuses to OCV which is great, but doesn't help a defensive or strait forward athletic ability. I figured early on in the last post I put out there, that this would have to be a skill package or martial art package. Whatever the case. that's what I am looking for. 

 

Thanks for the input. If you have any comments on how to design these low powered powers I would love to hear them. Putting limitations is a great tag line, but what would the limitation look like and what would it cost, is what I am looking for.

 

Thanks again

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As for martial arts only being for fighting, then you probably don't consider Yoga a martial art, even though it is. Parkour is designated as a Martial Art because it fulfills the basic concept that martial arts emulate. It uses forms of movement and does so athletically. There are several martial arts that do not fit the combat oriented only styles. Many are done for fitness reasons, regardless of other applications of the art. Thi Chi in its full aggressive form is very much a combat martial art. But in its Kata form its almost strictly for physical fitness. What I am looking to do is put together a group of skills and minor power applications that as closely represent the actual ability as possible. Something that can be bought as a package. 

You need to separate "Martial Art" as it is defined in the real world and as it is defined in Hero. I completely agree that Tai Chi, Parkour, Falun Gong and the like are Martial Arts in the real world sense. In the Hero sense, to qualify as a Martial Art you have to have 10 points in Maneuvers (strike, dodge, disarm, etc). You can certainly meet that criteria with a Parkour based Martial Art in Hero if you want, but that is not what you are describing in Hero terms.

 

 

Though everyone has some great ideas, I guess my issue is I'm not that good at designing package group of abilities and powers. So I do what everyone should do who isn't very good at something. Talk to those that probably are. 

 

I can figure the movement and even some of the acrobatics but coming up with limited leaping, clinging, swinging, even spacial awareness for understanding the environment, is giving me the problems. Too over powered and it might as well be a super power. Too under powered and I might as well just use skills. I thought about just taking Acrobatics and applying modified movements to that skill that can be bought, but Acrobatics says right in its description that it provides bonuses to OCV which is great, but doesn't help a defensive or strait forward athletic ability. I figured early on in the last post I put out there, that this would have to be a skill package or martial art package. Whatever the case. that's what I am looking for. 

 

Thanks for the input. If you have any comments on how to design these low powered powers I would love to hear them. Putting limitations is a great tag line, but what would the limitation look like and what would it cost, is what I am looking for.

 

Thanks again

I'll try to get you started:

 

+4m Leaping (8m total), Requires a Parkour Roll (-1/2), Must use Running leap (-1/4) Active Points: 2, Real Points: 1

+3 DCV, Requires a Parkour Roll (-1/2), Scales with Parkour Roll (-1/2), Must do running or leaping half move this phase or have full moved last phase (-1/2) Active Points: 15, Real Points: 6

   Notes: "Scales with Parkour Roll" - provides 1 DCV if you make roll and an additional DCV for every 2 that you make the roll by up to the maximum purchased.

Environmental Movement: Supreme Balance (no penalties on narrow surfaces), Requires a Parkour Roll (-1/2), Requires a half move (-1/2) Active Points: 4, Real Points: 2

+ 1 Overall Level, Requires a Parkour Roll (-1/2), Must fit Parkour SFX (-1), Requires a half move (-1/2) Active Points: 10, Real Points: 3

 

I would also add:

Breakfall

Acrobatics

 

This is not exhaustive, but should get you started. 

 

- E

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Did you miss the 3 Point Superskill/Talent I posted on the other thread?

 

3 Parkour v2: Usable As Flight (Naked Advantage; +1/4), No Turn Mode (Naked Advantage to offset the Turn Mode gained by Usable As Flight; +1/4) for up to 12 Active Points of Running (6 Active Points); Requires A Roll (Skill roll, -1 per 10 Active Points modifier; Must be made each Phase/use, Can choose which of two rolls to make from use to use; Acrobatics or Breakfall; -3/4), Limited Power Must Start In Contact With A Surface And Land Each Phase (custom; -1/4) - END=1

 

:)
HM

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As eepjr24 pointed out, Martial Art is a game mechanics term in the Hero System and carries a much more specific and narrow meaning than it does in the real world.  In Hero terms, a Martial Art is a collection of combat maneuvers and (optionally) skills and weapon familiarites that define a system of fighting.  See pages 159 and 209 in Champions Complete for examples (since you haven't specified what edition of Hero you're using, I'm making all my page references in CC where I can).  That's why several of us have been saying that Parkour 'isn't a Martial Art...' with '...in Hero System mechanics terms.' being left implied rather than directly stated.

 

Another construct in the Hero System is the Package or Template.  These are collections of skills, stat bonuses and abilities that can represent careers (detective, wizard, pilot), inhuman races (dwarf, Klingon, Skrull), character archetypes/roles (Blaster, Tank, Healer) and so forth.  Martial Arts, in the Hero System, can kind of be thought of as a subset of these.  See CC page 208 for some examples.

 

Like eepjr24, I'll put together a quicky Parkour Template to help give you some ideas on the thought processes involved in creating a skill package.

 

PARKOUR

 

+6m Running (6 pts)

+3m Leaping (6 pts)

  {Pretty obvious.  Parkour involves a lot of running and leaping.}

 

+3 CON (3 pts)

+2 PD (2 pts)

+6 STUN (3 pts)

  {Practitioners take a lot of spills learning this art, so they've got to be a little tougher than usual.}

 

+2 DEX (4 pts)

Acrobatics (DEX Roll + 1) (5 pts)

Breakfall (DEX Roll + 1) (5 pts)

Climbing (DEX Roll) (3 pts)

  {Again, probably pretty self-explanatory.  It's worth noting that Acrobatics allows characters to deal with a fair variety of obstacles and the like without slowing down.  See pages 25, 139, 141 and 153 for the mechanical effects.}

 

Environmental Movement - Narrow Surfaces (3 levels) (6 pts)

  {This allows the character to cancel up to -3 worth of penalties due to narrow surfaces/ledges.  See pg 40.}

 

Unpredictable Movement: +3 DCV (15 Active Points); Requires an Acrobatics Roll (-1/2); Proportional to Acrobatics Roll (-1/2); Costs END (-1/2); Requires at least a 1/2 Move (-1/4) (5 Real Cost)

  {This handles the defensive bonuses for moving in such an unpredictable fashion.  Basically, it's a moving Dodge.  Unfortunately, the Proportional modifier to Requires A Roll isn't in CC; for that you need the Advanced Player's Guide I, pg 144 (but eepjr24 already gave a good summary).}

 

I didn't include an OCV bonus, because I think that's best handled in using Acrobatics for a Surprise Maneuver already (see CC pgs 25 & 147).

 

Hopefully that gives you a better feel for how to put together a Template in general and will allow  you to customize for your own Parkour template.

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It includes running, climbing, swinging, vaulting, jumping, rolling, quadrupedal movement, running short distances on vertical surfaces...

Don't forget flipping. If I've learned nothing else from 4 seasons of Arrow, I know the flipping is critical. :)

 

They way you've spelled this out is interesting, tho it seems awfully complicated to me. The idea of building a non-combat martial art is an interesting thought experiment, but there's no RAW to support it so you're going to be making up a lot as you go. Theoretically you could build it as a Multipower with each slot being a different movement-related power, but that way has severe limitations too. Honestly, I think just defining a Parkour Skill that combines Acrobatics and Breakfall and only works only while moving will get you 90% of the way there. And unless you map your combats out in way more detail than I'm used to, parkouring across rooftops is going to wind up being somewhat abstracted anyway, so you might as well abstract the skill itself:

Player: "I want to run along this wall, somersault over this wall, dive down onto the street and roll to my feet."

GM: "Cool. Give me a Parkour roll."

 

Maybe throw in a little Clinging, Swinging, etc for color. And of course a bonus to PRE Attacks for "Looking Cool" which - again, based on watching Arrow - is 90% of the point of parkour.

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The idea of building a non-combat martial art is an interesting thought experiment, but there's no RAW to support it so you're going to be making up a lot as you go.

Ultimately, this is exactly why others have suggested use of a template.  It's what makes the most sense for a movement-based art form like parkour if there are to be no combat maneuvers entailing strikes and/or strike avoidance that justify building a martial art form.

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Allow me to join the chorus of those pointing out that what you are describing is not a "Martial Art" as Hero System uses the term.

 

You cannot use the Martial Art mechanics to get everything you are trying to get out of this idea.

 

But you CAN define a Martial Art with some maneuvers that are appropriate to the practice.

 

Flying Dodge:  1/2 Phase, -- OCV, +4 DCV, Dodge All Attacks, Abort; FMove Cost: 5 pts

THIS lets you make a full move and dodge with a total +4 DCV bonus. Should probably be given to anyone using Parkour.

 

Then take either one or both of these:

Passing Throw:  1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +0 DCV, +v/10; Target Falls; FMove Cost: 5 pts

THIS lets you knock down or trip someone while making a full move. Great for escaping.

Passing Disarm:  1/2 Phase, -1 OCV, -1 DCV, Disarm, 10 STR to Disarm; FMove

THIS lets you knock/kick the gun from someone's hand while making a full move. Great for escaping and not getting shot.

 

Otherwise, I think the "Usable as Flight" build sounds good ..

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Tagline usable as palindromedary

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As for martial arts only being for fighting, then you probably don't consider Yoga a martial art, even though it is. Parkour is designated as a Martial Art because it fulfills the basic concept that martial arts emulate. It uses forms of movement and does so athletically.

Parkour is designated as a martial art?  By whom?  Most in the martial arts community don't consider yoga a martial art -- much less parkour.  Also, neither qualifies as a martial art under Merriam-Webster's definition (to which I'm providing you a link for your convenience: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/martial%20art), and as has been said, here, parkour wouldn't be a martial art as Hero System uses the term.

 

Since all definitions of martial arts with which I am familiar entail an origin in self defense techniques, I would love to see/read some links from authoritative sources within the martial arts community defining or acknowledging yoga and/or parkour as a martial art. Note that I'm not talking about people in the yoga or parkour community calling either of them a martial art; rather, I'm looking for links to authoritative sources from the judo or akido or kung-fu or similar martial arts community wherein someone within said martial arts community recognizes yoga and/or parkour as martial arts in their own right.  I've seen folks in such communities refer to performing both martial arts and yoga -- but I have never seen them refer to yoga as a martial art.  Would you be so kind to provide some links from appropriate and authoritative sources for my use in my own edification on this subject?

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I'd suggest looking at films where parkour is used extensively, particularly the District B-13 films, to get some idea of "parkour as martial art". A package of martial maneuvers(primarily defensive or movement-oriented), combined with environmental movement, climbing, swinging(requires focus(object of opportunity)), extra leaping, acrobatics, breakfall, and some kind of perception bonus to make it easier to spot movement opportunities while moving quickly.

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I have no issue with parkour being adjusted into a soft style by creating offensive and defensive maneuvers used to interact with an attacker.  Judo, jujitsu, akido, and Wing Chun are all examples of soft styles -- each of which entails manuvers the the martial artist uses to deflect his/her attacker's energy to his/her attacker's disadvantage -- while exerting minimal personal force.  I could see using movement/momentum to personal advantage or an attacker's disadvantage ... but you'd still need the requisite blocks, kicks, punches, dodges, throws, etc. to make it into an actual martial art. 

 

Without that, parkour isn't really a self-defense technique or a  martial art; it's just smooth movement over/around/through obstacles -- and a sport.

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Just give the package lots of mobile and high DCV maneuvers (stuff that includes the full move element, lots of dodges, escapes, and blocks defined as "avoidance that puts my attacker off balance").  High acrobatics, leaping, movement, and buy your movement abilities END cost down.  No weapon elements.

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I think it a case of over-engineering.

 

For a super-heroic game it is just Acrobatics with a dose of extra run or leap.  

 

Done.

 

If you really feel the need you can add a bit of DCV.  

 

For heroic games, just the acrobatics.  

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Did you miss the 3 Point Superskill/Talent I posted on the other thread?

 

3 Parkour v2: Usable As Flight (Naked Advantage; +1/4), No Turn Mode (Naked Advantage to offset the Turn Mode gained by Usable As Flight; +1/4) for up to 12 Active Points of Running (6 Active Points); Requires A Roll (Skill roll, -1 per 10 Active Points modifier; Must be made each Phase/use, Can choose which of two rolls to make from use to use; Acrobatics or Breakfall; -3/4), Limited Power Must Start In Contact With A Surface And Land Each Phase (custom; -1/4) - END=1

 

:)

HM

 

https://www.facebook.com/davidnelmespkfr/videos/1621972891451358/

 

Sure seems like Limited Flight to me.

 

HM

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