Perception and 3 Point Skill Levels

[Primus]

TUS specifically clarifies that PER can be allocated a 5 point INT skill level. Higher point value levels subsume the abilities of lower value levels, so it is clear that an 8 and 10 point level can be allocated to PER. PER is at least a CHAR roll, so 2 point levels in PER are allowed (though are not persistent). But this still leaves open the question:

 

Can PER be allocated a 3 point skill level? 

 

Or for that matter, can CHAR rolls be included in 3 point levels?

 

Edit: with respect to 5er.

Edited June 29, 2016 by Primus

[Grailknight]

Enhanced Perception costs per page 62 of CC.

 

3 pts. for +1 with all senses

2 pts. for +1 with a sense group

1 pt. for +1 with a single sense

 

For Characteristic Roll  based Skills per page 34 of CC.

 

4 pts. for +1 with Interaction(PRE) or Intellect(INT) based skills

6 pts. for +1 with Agility(DEX) based Skills

[Hyper-Man]

The Enhanced Perception costs are the same in 5er as in 6e/Champions Complete above.

 

HM

[Primus]

This is a little frustrating. 

 

TUS = The Ultimate Skill (pg. 301, "5 point skill levels" heading)

 

It is clearly stated INT levels can be allocated to PER rolls. This is in plain English, no interpretation or logical leaps necessary. Obviously the Enhanced Senses entry is not comprehensive in describing the ways a PER roll may be directly modified with character abilities. 

 

It is left to the reader, however, to make the logical conclusions that a 2 pt CHAR roll level on PER is possible, and that this 2 pt level is different from a 3 pt +1 to PER Enhanced Sense because Senses are Persistent while Skill Levels must be allocated. Although, TUS does give a hint by using an example either in the CSL section or the regular Skill Levels section saying that you can't walk around with your skill levels permanently allocated, specifically referencing PER (something like "you can't just always have your Overall Skill Levels allocated to PER."). This example is a second case of explicitly referencing skill level allocation to PER rolls in RAW, although here with Overall Levels rather than INT skill levels.

 

Please address these facts when answering the question.

[Hyper-Man]

Please keep in mind we are all fans in this forum.

 

It sounds like you are looking for a specific rules clarification. Steve Long answers those in the Rules Forum.

 

He now typically only answers 6e specific stuff but he might make an exception for your TUS question.

 

HM

[Scott Baker]

So, looking at TUS, there's a couple things to note regarding those 5 pt skill levels:

1. Using a 5 pt skill level for PER is a default, but Steve specifically called it out as something the GM may not allow (as opposed to the overall "the GM can disallow anything they want")

2. Such use is called out as an additional use for the 5 pt level

 

So, pay careful attention to what each skill point level says it can be used for. It's pretty specific where a skill level can be used on Skills, Characteristics, or PER rolls. PER is specifically called out for 5 pt and 10 pt skill levels (your other example from the text about assigning skill levels. It is not called out for 2 pt, 3 pt, or 8 pt skill levels. In fact, 3 pt skill levels, which seems to be what you want us to agree with you on, does not even list characteristics as an option, let alone PER. The 3 pt skill level specifically only mentions skills.

 

So, the answer to your original questions appears to be "NO" given the rules-as-written. No interpretation. No "logical conclusions." Just the facts.

 

 

If you still want clarification, Hyper-Man is correct, go ask Steve in the rules forum.

 

I'll throw in one more fact for you. In 6E, the equivalent to the 5 pt Skill Level specifically states that it cannot be used with PER. The only skill level that does is the Overall Skill Level.