Wardsman Posted June 29, 2016 Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 Study spell research at the end of the day?JOT DOWN FOUND SPELLS? To study and record lore about the target of the mission? What is a reason to keep that feel without resorting to vancian magic and spell memorization? Your ideas please Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Netzilla Posted June 29, 2016 Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 Well, even if you don't go pure Vancian/D&D magic, you still might not be able to memorize all your spells all the time. I regularly have to look up obscure/infrequently used bits of syntax of the languages I code in at work. Wizards might not be any different. So, if your magic system requires a Skill Roll to cast a spell, a grimoire could be considered a "tool" to give you a bonus on that roll. Also, if you use a VPP to represent magic, you may need access to your library to change out slots. Another option would be that writing down spells may invest a portion of the magic into the book. Kind of a magical capacitor effect. So, having the proper scroll/grimoire on hand may boost the power of spells cast from it over those cast purely from memory. A suitably large grimoire could be used to stop bulletsarrows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richgee Posted June 29, 2016 Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 Can I suggest magic skill levels bought with the OAF limitation. This can simulate the need to have your book to hand to cast effectively. It also gives magic users the option to buy the skill at reduced cost if they want to take the chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 Its going to depend a lot on the way the spell system works. Perhaps you don't forget the spells, but can only prepare and be able to cast a certain number at once (power pool anyone?), so you need the books to prepare and set up different groupings of spells. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Netzilla Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 Its going to depend a lot on the way the spell system works. Perhaps you don't forget the spells, but can only prepare and be able to cast a certain number at once (power pool anyone?), so you need the books to prepare and set up different groupings of spells. I had a magic system like this set up using the Resource Pool option. Your 'Armory' was your library and the spells you had in your pool were what you had prepped and ready to cast. Swapping out spells took time (something like 1 minute per Active Point as I recall; don't have my notes). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cantriped Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 Non-Vancian uses for a Grimoire depend n the details of the magic system, but here are a few (several of these have already been mentioned): A ) If spells always Require A Magic Roll (-1/2); spellcasters might purchase: Grimoire: +10 to Magic, Analyze (Magic), and KS (Arcane and Occult Lore) (as 3-point SLs) (30 APs); OAF (-1). Cost: 15 points. B ) If spells are generally easier to cast with access to references; all spells might take Variable Limitations (IAF [-1/2], or Increase Endurance [x2; -1/2]; -1/4). C ) If individual spells are treated like equipment which can be gained and lost (perhaps purchased through a VPP or Resource Pool); all spells might be contained in Grimoires or Scrolls. Grimoires or Scrolls might be built like much like any other magical weapons; perhaps replacing STR minimums with EGO/INT minimums or Required Rolls, and usually costing normal or increased END. Being a "spellcaster" in such a game might just mean having versions of Weapon Familiarity, Combat Skill Levels, Weaponsmith and Inventor in order to write and/or use Grimoires D ) If spells are always purchased individually for CP (and especially so if Spells don't receive a Cost Multiplier ala the Turakian Age); spells that spellcasters haven't mastered yet might require the spellbook they are contained in as a Foci, or use some variation on option B (see above). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eepjr24 Posted July 1, 2016 Report Share Posted July 1, 2016 Also, spells in most systems have to be learned from somewhere. - E Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted July 1, 2016 Report Share Posted July 1, 2016 Why carry librams and grimoires when you can get your apprentices to carry those things? Lucius Alexander Or a palindromedary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted July 1, 2016 Report Share Posted July 1, 2016 Yeah using the spellbook as materials for spell research and studying new materials is a valuable idea as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeropoint Posted July 1, 2016 Report Share Posted July 1, 2016 Why do most machinist's toolboxes have a drawer sized specifically to hold the Machinery's Handbook? Why do botanists, geologists, or birdwatchers carry field guides? Almost all knowledge workers keep reference materials handy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted July 1, 2016 Report Share Posted July 1, 2016 Magic is too complex to ever memorize and so must be read off of a page or scroll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesguy Posted July 1, 2016 Report Share Posted July 1, 2016 Magic is too complex to ever memorize and so must be read off of a page or scroll. Unless there are gestures involved as well I like to think of spell books (scrolls) like music books for accomplished musicians. Many of the musicians I know have a set of pieces they have memorized. Probably as complex as magic in many ways. They also have some songs/music in a book that they need when they play that piece because they don't play it often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wardsman Posted July 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2016 Unless there are gestures involved as well I like to think of spell books (scrolls) like music books for accomplished musicians. Many of the musicians I know have a set of pieces they have memorized. Probably as complex as magic in many ways. They also have some songs/music in a book that they need when they play that piece because they don't play it often. I seem to recall ultimate skill having some ideas that may apply. I need to look at those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phydaux Posted July 2, 2016 Report Share Posted July 2, 2016 In my game world magic is a multipower, and all slots require a Sorcery skill roll. And your Sorcery skill can never be higher than your Thaumaturgy skill. You learn Thaumaturgy from books, so it's a constant quest to gain access to the "deepest mysteries." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuSoardGraphite Posted July 2, 2016 Report Share Posted July 2, 2016 A hermetic style magical system is all about study, theorum and experimentation. Mages should be constantly studying the latest (or eldest) tomes about magickal theory and application, then in the course of their adventures, they should be noting down anything unusual that happens in the course of their spellcasting. Other types of magical traditions learn their spells differently, but should constantly be engaging in the techniques necessary to learn and advance within their craft. Shammans should commune with spirits and ancestors. Mystics should meditate and consult their divination tools. Necromancers should study the dead. Elementalists should immerse themselves in the elements to understand their properties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted July 2, 2016 Report Share Posted July 2, 2016 Without scrolls, what else is a wizard to loot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DShomshak Posted July 2, 2016 Report Share Posted July 2, 2016 In the Solomonic/Faustian traditions of demonology, a magus needs a special Book of Pacts. Each time he summons a new demon lord, he persuades/bribes/browbeats the spirit into signing its own sigil onto a page of the book, to make it easier to summon the spirit in the future and call upon its powers. You can find sigils in books like the Lemegeton, but the grimoires say the sigil is only really effective if the demon writes it personally. You could do something similar in a Fantasy setting: Each quick-cast spell ("quick" compared to a week of purification and ritual) is gained from a spirit. If you don't like demons, use angels, elementals, faeries, whatever. To cast the spell, you flip to the right page and invoke the spirit by its name and sigil. Dean Shomshak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted July 3, 2016 Report Share Posted July 3, 2016 Unless there are gestures involved as well No one said spell casting was easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wardsman Posted July 20, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2016 Harn system makes distinction between learned and memorize spells. Still sorting that out. Perhaps a similar system? And just because you have spell written down or have copy doesn't mean you have learned it in Harn. Again a possibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted July 24, 2016 Report Share Posted July 24, 2016 Well if its written down, it can be traded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasha Posted July 24, 2016 Report Share Posted July 24, 2016 I always had spells be in a powerpool or resource pool. The caster could only actively cast spells that were in the pool. The Spellbook was where they kept all of their spells and was required to change the spells available to cast in the spellpool. As they researched or found new spells those spells would be copied to the spell book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted July 25, 2016 Report Share Posted July 25, 2016 If the act of spellcasting does things to your mental state, then after the first one you cast from a normal rested condition, your only hope of getting it done right is to follow slavishly VERY simple rote or written instructions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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