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Harn Hero 2016

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Found some old threads that referred to older threads but bit rot has struck.

 

Harnforum.com is now a japanese hair loss site.

 

I find that very sad.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary isn't happy about it either

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You might want to try using the Wayback Machine: https://archive.org/web/

 

:)

HM

 

 

The Harn Expert is Andy Staples. He is a huge Harn Fantatic and a hero fan as well. He used to post pretty regularly here.

 

Here's what I found so far:

 

https://web.archive.org/web/20051026185730/http://www.minarsas.demon.co.uk/harn/index.htm

https://web.archive.org/web/20060118133522/http://www.usandacat.com/herohq/file_downloads.htm

http://www.penultimateharn.com/hero/6echaracteristics.html

 

 

:)

HM

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I'll check those. Turns out the fate site I found had a hero 5th edition section.

http://www.culpan.org/harnwiki/pmwiki.php?n=Main.OldRules

 

Problem is I don't know enough of the original harn system(systems?) to know what is lost in translation.

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I'll check those. Turns out the fate site I found had a hero 5th edition section.

http://www.culpan.org/harnwiki/pmwiki.php?n=Main.OldRules

 

Problem is I don't know enough of the original har system(systems?) to know what is lost in translation.

Well Harn can be a bit of a moving target. It originally began life as a generic fantasy world where you could add your own stuff. That version is very gritty realistic with little to no magic.

 

HarnMaster is the rules that were created for the Harn world. It's magic level is IMHO at the bottom of high fantasy or High magic, low fantasy. Kind of in between. Still a bit gritty and realistic in feel.  I had a friend who was a Harn Fantatic and ran a game in the system. He was quite surprised at how much magic was in the Harn Master rules.

 

http://www.columbiagames.com/cgi-bin/query/cfg/zoom.cfg?product_id=4001

 

http://www.kelestia.com

Official Harn and HarnMaster Website

 

Wow Look you can even get stuff on DriveThru RPG

http://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse/pub/2182/Columbia-Games-Inc

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A long time ago (+25 years) I owned most of the Harn background material (I didn't use the character & combat rules though) and adapted it to the version of Hero that was available at the time.  When I built my campaign magic was very hard to cast, took a lot of time, and was generally a bad idea to try in combat.  I did allow mages and priests the ability to create magic items (basically potions, scrolls, etc) so they could have a limited set of things they could do in combat.

 

Mundane combat was the name of the game (melee and missile) with a couple of martial arts.

 

The game world is very gritty.  In Hero you would want to use all the optional combat rules to simulate how deadly Harn combat rules (which I gathered from people who played in Harn) can be.

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Well Harn can be a bit of a moving target. It originally began life as a generic fantasy world where you could add your own stuff. That version is very gritty realistic with little to no magic.

 

HarnMaster is the rules that were created for the Harn world. It's magic level is IMHO at the bottom of high fantasy or High magic, low fantasy. Kind of in between. Still a bit gritty and realistic in feel.  I had a friend who was a Harn Fantatic and ran a game in the system. He was quite surprised at how much magic was in the Harn Master rules.

 

http://www.columbiagames.com/cgi-bin/query/cfg/zoom.cfg?product_id=4001

 

http://www.kelestia.com

Official Harn and HarnMaster Website

 

Wow Look you can even get stuff on DriveThru RPG

http://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse/pub/2182/Columbia-Games-Inc

Turns out the main creator and columbia games  had a falling out before he died. So now there is dueling games systems.

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A long time ago (+25 years) I owned most of the Harn background material (I didn't use the character & combat rules though) and adapted it to the version of Hero that was available at the time.  When I built my campaign magic was very hard to cast, took a lot of time, and was generally a bad idea to try in combat.  I did allow mages and priests the ability to create magic items (basically potions, scrolls, etc) so they could have a limited set of things they could do in combat.

 

Mundane combat was the name of the game (melee and missile) with a couple of martial arts.

 

The game world is very gritty.  In Hero you would want to use all the optional combat rules to simulate how deadly Harn combat rules (which I gathered from people who played in Harn) can be.

How did you deal with the magic?

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Turns out the main creator and columbia games  had a falling out before he died. So now there is dueling games systems.

 

Is that like Battling Banjos? :)

 

Sadly, the only thing I know about Harn is that there was (is?) a Campaign Cartographer set that emulated the map style. I really thought it was neat because of the cultivated land symbols to represent farmland. In regards to the rules and setting, I've only heard offhand comments that were almost always positive.

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How did you deal with the magic?

 

If I remember correctly mages could prepare potions and scrolls.  These could be used in combat a bit more effectively.  But even using these could be pretty dangerous.  I think scrolls required incantations, magical ability roll (which you had to make), concentration (1/2 DCV), and a full phase.  Potions were a bit easier in that I think they just took a full phase to take effect.  Casting an actual spell in combat required incantations, gestures, foci that got used up, concentration, and at least a full phase.  And that didn't give you things like fireballs that could wipe out big groups.

 

In my game no one played a mage.  And in Harn that makes sense.  Mages were extremely rare.  Even royalty might not ever meet a mage, let alone a commoner.

 

Now someone did play a monk from the island where all the mages supposedly came from - can't remember the name of that place it was off the coast of Harn (SE coast I think).  Said monk had some cool talents that almost seemed like magic.

 

Harn is a great campaign world to play in, if everyone buys into the the very very low levels of magic in that world.  There are no magic items (except above).  And as for monsters the players might not ever encounter any monsters except for gargun (the equivalent of orcs) because all other monsters are just that rare.

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If I remember correctly mages could prepare potions and scrolls.  These could be used in combat a bit more effectively.  But even using these could be pretty dangerous.  I think scrolls required incantations, magical ability roll (which you had to make), concentration (1/2 DCV), and a full phase.  Potions were a bit easier in that I think they just took a full phase to take effect.  Casting an actual spell in combat required incantations, gestures, foci that got used up, concentration, and at least a full phase.  And that didn't give you things like fireballs that could wipe out big groups.

 

In my game no one played a mage.  And in Harn that makes sense.  Mages were extremely rare.  Even royalty might not ever meet a mage, let alone a commoner.

 

Now someone did play a monk from the island where all the mages supposedly came from - can't remember the name of that place it was off the coast of Harn (SE coast I think).  Said monk had some cool talents that almost seemed like magic.

 

Harn is a great campaign world to play in, if everyone buys into the the very very low levels of magic in that world.  There are no magic items (except above).  And as for monsters the players might not ever encounter any monsters except for gargun (the equivalent of orcs) because all other monsters are just that rare.

 

Looking at some Harn rules now. And people complain about HERO math!

It is taking a awhile to get back  into that old school mode of thinking.

WoW! That style of charting and calculations. I remember similar stuff from other systems even early AD&D.

It is if D&D and Rolemaster had a baby.

 

I think I posted somebody's 5th edition hero notes above.If I didn't I will later.

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Here it is. Been playing with it. Combine it with the Active point/10 + Real point/10 spell ranking system and it might be workable.

In the system below. No buying spells with points. It takes time based on spell rank.

The number of spells you know is limited by a talent Arcane discipline. Spell Rank -1 is how each spell costs.

So you can know as many first rank spells as you want.

 

Since there are 6 schools of magic and the other ones are harder to learn, I'm toying with requiring a talent for each school instead all of them using one.

Still mulling that over. 

Think I have working attunement mechanic.

 

I'll check those. Turns out the fate site I found had a hero 5th edition section.

http://www.culpan.org/harnwiki/pmwiki.php?n=Main.OldRules

 

Problem is I don't know enough of the original harn system(systems?) to know what is lost in translation.

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Harn magic has an interesting SFX system not unlike Hero.

Fire is not just elemental Fire but action.

While Water is tied to Darkness , Cold and Inaction.

 

But only a few spells are defined and it strongly suggests a magical precedence as to what can be done by Each Convocation(college) or not.

 

So Haste spells, aid tod ex and speed should be fire. Arguably aid to running is also.  While Slow spells would be Water.

But what about an aid to swimming? Fire or Water?

 

There are no flying spells listed in Official Harn stuff . Is it possible? that is up to you. If you allow it it looks like air.

 

What about telekinetics or levitation? Air or Mind? Or is that a meta magic and thus neutral magic? 

I could arguments for all three positions.

 

So in theory two Harn like worlds can subtile different magics.

Parallel worlds is built into the cosmology BTW.

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What to do about Ethereal Fire and Water?

 

Fire mages can conjure Ethereal Fire. It requires no seed(fuel or flame), does not interact with inanimate matter(armor doesn't affect it), and it has lesser effect on living beings but affects ethereals like normal fire affects normal matter( sounds like stun only EB by treat as normal fire against desolids).

 

So how to model that in 5th?

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Transdimensional?

I'm thinking stun only EB with NND or AVLD(natural defenses). And requiring a susceptibility or vulnerability on desolidification to let the ethereal element attack to affect the desolids.

 

One spell I saw was small ethereal fire globe to provide light. At lower skill level it stayed in the hand. At higher level skill it could be thrown.

I'm thinking making that a small EB as above and let the light be a SFX be a gimy.

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Multipower, with one slot EB, and another with RKA, Affects Desolid.

Might work but a bit complicated for a simple spell.

 

I also tend to shy away from frameworks in heroic level.

  1. Seems too much like SH, Frameworks in heroic level didn't pop up until 5th edition
  2. It is not fair to give "mages" frameworks and not fighters, thieves etc.(yes I know some people do)

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Well then, just bake the two together into an And power, or Link them. I'd go with link.

 

And others than mages can use Multipowers. There are weapons that make the most sense written up as MPs -- there are a couple of threads (probably archived) that discuss the Japanese weapon kusarigama, as an example, or an axe with a backspike would be a MP with a regular HKA slot and one slot with a HKA, AP. Not to mention a boatload of other, personal abilities.

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Well then, just bake the two together into an And power, or Link them. I'd go with link.

 

And others than mages can use Multipowers. There are weapons that make the most sense written up as MPs -- there are a couple of threads (probably archived) that discuss the Japanese weapon kusarigama, as an example, or an axe with a backspike would be a MP with a regular HKA slot and one slot with a HKA, AP. Not to mention a boatload of other, personal abilities.

I just don't like frameworks in heroic. Not wrong per se It is just not how I learned to do things.

Also makes hard to build this as a low level spell if you have spell levels.

 

It does bring up an interesting theoretical point. What determines if the attacker pays for an effect or that the effect is built into the defender's power as vulnerability or susceptibility? This actually comes up a lot in fantasy.

Since all ethereals are supposed to be affected by Ethereal Fire and Water like the regular elements affect regular matter, it could argued that that should be required in all desolid builds in the campaign.

 

I'm more worried about letting the continuous No range EB provide light as a SFX.

But I think it legal as long as the area small at most a hex.

 

Just rechecked Sphere of Shanakar. I will have to rethink that last line. At 10- roll in Hero terms the spell illuminates a radius of about 25 ft(just over 8 yards/ meters or 4 inches). 

It does 2d6 ethereal damage(harn system) if you touch with it, You can't throw it except at much higher levels.

 

This is looking like a in the spirit translation of this effect. Not unlike the D&D fireball exercise. How many different versions have I seen of that?

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Ok  th

 

I'm more worried about letting the continuous No range EB provide light as a SFX.

But I think it legal as long as the area small at most a hex.

 

Just rechecked Sphere of Shanakar. I will have to rethink that last line. At 10- roll in Hero terms the spell illuminates a radius of about 25 ft(just over 8 yards/ meters or 4 inches). 

It does 2d6 ethereal damage(harn system) if you touch with it, You can't throw it except at much higher levels.

 

This is looking like a in the spirit translation of this effect. Not unlike the D&D fireball exercise. How many different versions have I seen of that?

 Ok looking at source the main effect is the illumination the damage is secondary.

I've decided to have a light effect based on Images for 5pts( unless I change my mind and use Change Environment).

a 4" radius is +1/2 for 7.5  or 7 AP  --- No range -1/2 , RSR -1/2,  restrainable-1/2 , Incantations and gestures, casting only -1/2 total -2 real point = 2 CP

 

EB 1d6

AVLD Only natural defenses apply (3/4),  Lingering  1 minute (+3/4)*  12.5 or 12 AP      --- Common limitations -2, linked -14  6 real points 

                                                                                      Total AP 20                                                                  total real points 8

(20 ap /10+ 8 RP/10) = 2.8 Level

 

I was shooting for first or second level, but it is a start.

 

Will use rules either 5th edition FH or Ultimate skill that let the mage boost the effective active points either based  mage rank or how much he/she succedes.

Since the description is an 2" globe of ethereal flame and the damage is not the main effect may reduce eb further and let skill boost raise it. 

 

I'll work on it some more. Will go with the Susceptibility for ethereals

 

* lingering is in 5th FH.

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