Distorted Space

[Steve]

I'm trying to come up with a power construct that would allow stretching an existing space in all three dimensions, kind of like a TARDIS except out in the open.

 

Take a dozen or more meters as the perimeter of the effect. You can travel around this circumference as normal, but trying to go straight across from one edge to the other is a far greater distance, kilometers or more.

 

If you shoot into it, the range modifier would be normal right up until the distortion's edge is reached. Trying to shoot someone on the other side of the distortion zone would be a far greater distance, so the range modifier would change greatly. Likewise movement would be reduced in this zone. You're not actually moving slower, just having to cover more distance than the perimeter would indicate. It's like each meter is now megascaled, but only within the zone of the effect.

[JohnnyAppleseed098]

I could see it done as a XDM with something similar to Gate on a Teleport and IPE. I just can't quite put it into full game terms (I do not have my 6E1 on me)

[Grailknight]

I could see it done as a XDM with something similar to Gate on a Teleport and IPE. I just can't quite put it into full game terms (I do not have my 6E1 on me)

 

This with AOE on the Teleport.

 

The problem is defining the size of the extra-dimensional space. I guess you could buy it as a base or use Change Environment as a basis for the area's size.

[Midnightninja]

How about a Change Environment where the movement and range modifier penalties each take megascale. It's a little wonky and potentially abusive, but it allows you to discretely define what effects you want and With varying combat effects you can customize to fit your immediate needs.

 

It would probably be about as expensive as XDM, depending on how you buy either.

[IndianaJoe3]

Range and Perception penalties can be done with Change Environment. Affecting Movement powers would need Drain.

[Midnightninja]

Change Environment can affect movement powers.

[Christopher]

This Speciel effect can be applied to a lot of different power constructs. However as others pointed out, Change Environment might be a perfect match for 90% of what you posted. And that will be the best match you will get as this special effect is like gravity "able to do what no balanced hero power should be able to do".

 

I am pretty sure CE can affect both movement powers and ranged combat modifiers - creating a fog or increasing ranged penalties for shooting through are kind of the same thing in the end.

You can not actually make the attack fail due to range limitations on the powers (at least not with RAW). You might reason that game effect from special effects interaction, but is always a dangerous course.

 

"You're not actually moving slower, just having to cover more distance than the perimeter would indicate."

-20m running, Proportional to existing running or something like that; no negative effects from loosing movement speed (falling down), original speed restored on leaving

A fun little thing is that CE and megasclaed movement interact nicely - the MS Movement is cut before the x1000 multiplier.

 

 

I could see it done as a XDM with something similar to Gate on a Teleport and IPE. I just can't quite put it into full game terms (I do not have my 6E1 on me)

I can think of a few remotely similar powers from the APG II
APG II 27 has "Extradimensional Space". A power written up for the "Make a bag of holding from D&D" problem. Could be faked via EDM portal or shrinking before.

However no combat applications was ever put into the pricing.

 

Time powers are usually solved via EDM. This "shift area to alternate universe with longer distances" power would be similar. APG II 38 introduced two new powers from the time special effect for EDM: Time Stop and Replay.

Time Stop does have a limitation "Slow Time". Wich only slows time, rather then stopping it.

Expanding the 1st-3rd dimensions is kinda similar to slowing the movement of the 4th in game effect. So you could theoretically work from there.

But that is a modification of a "GM allowance" limitation on a "Stop Sign" set of powers in the 2nd Expanded Player Guide. So I am really looking in odd places to start,

[NuSoardGraphite]

I think either Change Environment or EDM works for this. Maybe both linked. Change environment to affect movement and range penalties. EDM for increasing the amount of time it takes to pass through the area.

[Tasha]

Range and Perception penalties can be done with Change Environment. Affecting Movement powers would need Drain.

more specifically you would need the Suppress version of Drain for the Area.

[JackValhalla]

The problem with Suppress and Change Environment is that you would need to separately restrict movements for running, swimming, flight, gliding, leaping, swinging, tunneling, and maybe but not necessarily teleportation. It would be prohibitively expensive to cover more than a couple hexes with an effect that would slow the opponent by two or three inches. You'd be much, much better off adapting the Gate rules of teleport to Extra-Dimensional Travel. I normally don't like relying on EDM, I think it's used as a dodge for other effects that can be simulated other ways, but if the special effect of the power is to access areas and locations in which physics operates at fundamentally different ways, I think that extra-dimensional travel is the right way to go. 

[Anaximander]

I think I would go with the Change Environments approach and use the space-time continuum (STC) manipulation aspect as just an FX.  On a similar note, I once created a character that used STC to enhance his movements.  I gave the character two Flight powers.  One was a surface only Flight and the other was a gliding only Flight with the affect that he wasn't truly going faster but the universe was going slower FX.

[Christopher]

but if the special effect of the power is to access areas and locations in which physics operates at fundamentally different ways, I think that extra-dimensional travel is the right way to go. 

One of the core rules of building Hero powers:

"Special Effect and Game Effect are distinct."

The Special Effect should never define anything about the Power, especially not the power(s) used to build it.

Saying "the special effect implies power X" is exactly the wrong way to go about building anything in Hero. Avoid that mental trap.

 

Regarding the pricing for affecting every form of Movement:

Well, that is how powerfull this power IS. It can affect every damn form of movement going through it, into it or out of it inlcuding all Megascaled versions. If it is prohibtively expensive in the most direct build, then it will propably be brokenly cheap in any other (cheaper) build.

 

Place this into a tight passage and you have a "nobody can follow us/shoot us in the back" AoE effect.

Place it in front of a enemy in partial cover and they will be unable to fire effectively or rush you from behind said cover.

With EDM the "scale" of this distortion and thus the game effect is unpredictable and un-accountable. EDM is one of those powers not suited to be used in combat scenarios or for combat powers. We can not even define it properly as a movement power.

 

The idea is a absolute effect - something that affects everyone and everything going through the field, if attack or person. And absolut effects is one thing Hero stays clear off, because those tend to be un-accountable and unpredictable.

The GM is free to throw all warnings into the wind. But then he can not complain if this thing blows up in his face.

[Anaximander]

If the intent of the power is to slow things down, would some kind of entangle combined with area effect resistance be a way to go?

[Armitage]

If the intent of the power is to slow things down, would some kind of entangle combined with area effect resistance be a way to go?

 

 

One of the Fantasy Hero books, I think, I can't remember which one, had a spell that turned the ground into an adhesive mire in a large area, dramatically slowing anyone passing through it.  As I recall, it was built as a Constant Entangle with a Limitation that it only reduced movement to 1"/2m per Phase instead of completely immobilizing anyone in it.

[Anaximander]

One of the Fantasy Hero books, I think, I can't remember which one, had a spell that turned the ground into an adhesive mire in a large area, dramatically slowing anyone passing through it.  As I recall, it was built as a Constant Entangle with a Limitation that it only reduced movement to 1"/2m per Phase instead of completely immobilizing anyone in it.

With that in mind, you could expand by having it work on more movement categories and maybe some additional mutual Protective Resistance to simulate attacks being slowed down and losing their impact.  In retrospect, maybe, making it a kind of Barrier built along the same principles as that Constant Entangle you mentioned.

[eepjr24]

Not much to add to the comments above (Christopher and Tasha, specifically). The only other thing I did not see covered is how to defend against it? One of the core principles of the Hero System is that everything can be defended against and that the defense should be cheaper than the power it is defending against.

 

- E

[Tasha]

Not much to add to the comments above (Christopher and Tasha, specifically). The only other thing I did not see covered is how to defend against it? One of the core principles of the Hero System is that everything can be defended against and that the defense should be cheaper than the power it is defending against.

 

- E

Power Defense would be the defense for the Suppress/Drain version. Other less straight forward solutions would have to define their defense.

[Tasha]

It is a VERY Expensive Effect

75pts Suppress Running, Flight, Swinging, Leap 2d6 (standard effect: 6 points), Constant (+1/2), Area Of Effect (10m Radius; +3/4), Expanded Effect (x4 Characteristics or Powers simultaneously) (Running, Flight, Swinging, Leap, Tunneling; +1 1/2) (75 Active Points)

 

I should add a limit (effect ends after target(s) leave area effected).

[Armitage]

It is a VERY Expensive Effect

 

75pts Suppress Running, Flight, Swinging, Leap 2d6 (standard effect: 6 points), Constant (+1/2), Area Of Effect (10m Radius; +3/4), Expanded Effect (x4 Characteristics or Powers simultaneously) (Running, Flight, Swinging, Leap, Tunneling; +1 1/2) (75 Active Points)

 

I should add a limit (effect ends after target(s) leave area effected).

 

 

This was why I was thinking about the Entangle I remember seeing (Man, I wish I could remember where).  Remove the Only Against Targets Touching The Ground that it presumably had and it would work against any movement passing through the radius.  I remember seeing it and thinking that it would be a good way to create the Solid Fog spell from D&D, which even slows you down if you fall through it.

[eepjr24]

Needs Teleport and Swimming. Also you paid for 3 but put 5 powers in the expanded effect. Probably needs a limitation that it does not reduce movement to 0, only to 1/nth of the original where n is the multiplier of the distance (so if it is meter to kilometer, n = 1000). Basically it would be 52.5 points per d6 of Suppress. You wouldn't have to worry about FTL unless your areas got very large. =P

 

- E

[Tasha]

Needs Teleport and Swimming. Also you paid for 3 but put 5 powers in the expanded effect. Probably needs a limitation that it does not reduce movement to 0, only to 1/nth of the original where n is the multiplier of the distance (so if it is meter to kilometer, n = 1000). Basically it would be 52.5 points per d6 of Suppress. You wouldn't have to worry about FTL unless your areas got very large. =P

 

- E

I thought about adding them, but I was thinking that Teleport's mechanic is different enough that it doesn't make sense. Also, swimming is so rare that is is worth saving the extra points by not having either.

 

BTW I used Hero Designer, so I am very sure that it is correct.

[eepjr24]

I thought about adding them, but I was thinking that Teleport's mechanic is different enough that it doesn't make sense. Also, swimming is so rare that is is worth saving the extra points by not having either.

 

BTW I used Hero Designer, so I am very sure that it is correct.

Interesting. 5e or 6e?

 

 

To apply an Adjustment Power to any two Characteristics or Powers simultaneously is a +½ Advantage. Each additional Characteristic or Power that can be affected simultaneously is an additional +½ Advantage. Thus, affecting three at once is a +1 total Advantage, four is +1½, 5 is +2, eight is +3½, and so on.

 

I just realized I had a typo in there as well, you paid for 4 (not three) and had 5 listed in the effects. But only at the end, the list in the beginning of the power was correct. Is that a bug in HD or something you manually typed?

 

Quote and bold for the bit I am talking about.

 

75pts Suppress Running, Flight, Swinging, Leap 2d6 (standard effect: 6 points), Constant (+1/2), Area Of Effect (10m Radius; +3/4), Expanded Effect (x4 Characteristics or Powers simultaneously) (Running, Flight, Swinging, Leap, Tunneling; +1 1/2) (75 Active Points)

 

- E

[Tasha]

Interesting. 5e or 6e?

 

 

I just realized I had a typo in there as well, you paid for 4 (not three) and had 5 listed in the effects. But only at the end, the list in the beginning of the power was correct. Is that a bug in HD or something you manually typed?

 

Quote and bold for the bit I am talking about.

 

 

- E

 6e It's easier for me to use. 

 

Fixed

80 Suppress Movement:  Drain Running, Flight, Swinging, Leap, Tunneling. 2d6, Area Of Effect (8m Radius; +1/2), Constant (+1/2), Expanded Effect (x5 Characteristics or Powers simultaneously) (+2) (80 Active Points) 8end

 

Way more complicated to write up in 5e. you have to suppress each movement separately and only have a 2" base AOE (assuming 2d6). It's really messy to write up.

[Anaximander]

You might want to add some kind of defensive power to that attacks going through the field will lose velocity losing force in the process, but since the loss of velocity and force would work both ways, it would have to be a defense that is as much a disadvantage as an advantage, and I still think that adding Barrier to the mix might be the way to go.  Of course, I have not been playing this game as long as you guys; so, I accept I may be totally off base.

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

Here's a weird idea...

 

Shrinking, Usable As Attack, Fully Invisible Effects (AoE Explosion; normal mass)

 

Shrinking as attack doesn't alter movement, but I think I'm onto something here.